norwichkev Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Brandon Freemantle untried??? If the Raiders track a competitive side I suspect that their crowds would increase - as they do with the PL side. Think it through Ben under the current racecard your two untried riders have Heat 2 in ntheir own class only - then on they have to race against the likes of number 4's who often are third Heat Leaders. Scunny were excellent last year but with lads maturing in their second / third year of racing, when they needed to strengthen they did not put newbie 3 pointers in. IMO if you want to bring youngsters through across the board one fair way is for the number 7 berth put in a vultures race each meeting for all teams. Standalone or not I believe for the majority of supporters as a paying customer you want 15 competitive races. Kev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Where did I say Freemantle was untried? I said I'd be happy to see two untried reserves but my preference would be Freemantle and Greenwood. Scunthorpe's team last year was the result of 2/3 years worth of NL experience for most of their side, Rye will be starting some riders off from scratch with their breakthrough seasons being expected to be 2013 or 2014. As I've said before, we are not a win at all costs stand alone side, so to try build a win at all costs team would not be beneficial for anyone, bringing through young riders for the future of the rockets would be. Mason is the experienced rider, Morley and Sarjeant are looking to break through during the season, the other 4 spots should be for youngsters who can make a name for themselves. Running double headers and charging less for the stand alone meetings will keep crowd interest up, the double headers aren't everyone's cup of tea but if they were moved along a little quicker then there would be no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 As I've said before, we are not a win at all costs stand alone side, so to try build a win at all costs team would not be beneficial for anyone, bringing through young riders for the future of the rockets would be. Mason is the experienced rider, Morley and Sarjeant are looking to break through during the season, the other 4 spots should be for youngsters who can make a name for themselves. Running double headers and charging less for the stand alone meetings will keep crowd interest up, the double headers aren't everyone's cup of tea but if they were moved along a little quicker then there would be no issues. I'm not interested in seeing 4 untried riders struggling around or sitting through a 4 hour meeting as is the norm with Rye House double headers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BossMan Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'm not interested in seeing 4 untried riders struggling around or sitting through a 4 hour meeting as is the norm with Rye House double headers! Have to agree with Shadders here - It has to be a competitive team to keep the interest up and the normal 6 training heats afterwards. Perhaps make it a little knock out 6 heats with the winner getting the No.7 berth the following week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichkev Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Have to agree with Shadders here - It has to be a competitive team to keep the interest up and the normal 6 training heats afterwards. Perhaps make it a little knock out 6 heats with the winner getting the No.7 berth the following week? Agree with you and Shadders having seen a number of NL teams try riders way too early and then drop them after a few meetings simply because they are way off the pace does not help riders / clubs / supporters and Double headers are not the best when it is difficult to get good race surfaces for 2 meetings. Where did I say Freemantle was untried? I said I'd be happy to see two untried reserves but my preference would be Freemantle and Greenwood. Here: I'm happy for the Raiders to go to tapes with two untried youngsters at reserve in 2012 my personal preference would be Dan Greenwood and Brandon Freemantle. Now you have added the word "but" it changes the shape of your statement. Edited December 4, 2011 by norwichkev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Agree with you and Shadders having seen a number of NL teams try riders way too early and then drop them after a few meetings simply because they are way off the pace does not help riders / clubs / supporters and Double headers are not the best when it is difficult to get good race surfaces for 2 meetings. Here: I'm happy for the Raiders to go to tapes with two untried youngsters at reserve in 2012 >>>,<<< my personal preference would be Dan Greenwood and Brandon Freemantle. Now you have added the word "but" it changes the shape of your statement. You've misquoted me, there was a comma in there. Is it that important that you need to go grammar police on it? I know what I meant, there was nothing wrong with it and if you've read it wrong it's not my problem. Back on topic: Whilst it is good to win things and keep the fans coming back, who are the riders we are going to sign who will win us meetings and be decent signings who could move up to the Rockets side in the future? Most are assets of other clubs, we need to make our own assets, to do that we need to blood new talent and not just one rider here and there, 2 or 3 because the chances are out of each 2 or 3 we put into the side only one will be good enough in future. Until they are given their chance then who will know and they won't get the track time to improve with competitive action. At the end of the day, the purpose of the Raiders is to develop riders not to win the league, that is what the Rockets should be aiming to do each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Agree with you and Shadders having seen a number of NL teams try riders way too early and then drop them after a few meetings simply because they are way off the pace does not help riders / clubs / supporters and Double headers are not the best when it is difficult to get good race surfaces for 2 meetings But thats the impossible question of when is to early???? i often look back to Scunny meeting at Dudley in 2010,The saints went with RR with Richie Worrall @no.8 He went out in all the RR rides,dont think he scored a point,so you could say he was in to early,yet he went back this year,about 8 months later and i think he got 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichkev Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 But thats the impossible question of when is to early???? i often look back to Scunny meeting at Dudley in 2010,The saints went with RR with Richie Worrall @no.8 He went out in all the RR rides,dont think he scored a point,so you could say he was in to early,yet he went back this year,about 8 months later and i think he got 18 Fair pointon Richie but think you may have answered your own question there - although he could have been close to the pace despite not getting a point. Scunny have been a shining example in developing young riders the Iast few years but without naming specific examples from 2011 - that would be unfair on the individuals but regular NL attendees could name a few - it could well be that they will be back in 2012 better equipped and more track time under their belt - riders finishing race after race 1/2 a lap behind will learn nothing. Although on the flip side Stefan Nielsen only listed as a number 8 and Ben Reade dropped by Stoke late on do sometimes leave you scratching your head must admit. Second halves last year in the NL COULD have been vastly improved, and if the Midlands League? mentioned on this forum ( although must admit have seen nothing of ) worked then surely would not a league run after NL meetings be the best route to bring on youngsters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 . Although on the flip side Stefan Nielsen only listed as a number 8 and Ben Reade dropped by Stoke late on do sometimes leave you scratching your head must admit. Whys that Kev??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BossMan Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 At the end of the day, the purpose of the Raiders is to develop riders not to win the league, Is that the official statement from Len? If that is the case then the entrance price should reflect that and be half of what it currently is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Im on the middle ground on this one..Obviously it is good to bring on as many youngsters as possible,,but they need to be at a stage where they are on the pace before being given a team place ,,because as Shadders and others have said they want to see competative racing,and no fans means no speedway..I stand by my view that if all teams used one such rider it would work ok.. But if some teams have two and others none you have a total imbalance that will produce poor racing that fans wont stand for and will not attend such meetings... Edited December 5, 2011 by waco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Im on the middle ground on this one..Oblviously it is good to bring on as many youngsters as possible,,but they need to be at a stage where they are on the pace before being given a team place ,,because as Shadders and others have said they want to see competative racing,and no fans means no speedway..I stand by my view that if all teams used one such rider it would work ok.. But if some teams have two and others none you have a total imbalance that will produce poor racing that fans wont stand for and will not attend such meetings... Lakeside have announced that they will not be running a NL team in 2012 after all. Can Marc Owen and Shane Hazelden be fitted in I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Lakeside have announced that they will not be running a NL team in 2012 after all. Can Marc Owen and Shane Hazelden be fitted in I wonder? That is a real shame as they seemed so positive at the end of last year....I believe Shane and Marc are both fixed up for next season though i cant say where,, as no official announcements have been made yet.....Start guessing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I can't see Owen being back.He was talking before last season about a possible PL spot and to be honest by the end of the season I thought he was one of our worst riders. I dont know what has happened to him. One injury too many maybe? Certainly if he gates he flies but he seems incapable of mixing it these days. Maybe hes bought a bike from Steve Boxall. I'd love to see Shane back. Such a trier aand he would be one of a strong top four. On the point of blooding rookies i think Waco made an excellent point. All of these riders want to win the league or the cup and its unfair to a top five who have that ambition to be held back by rookies if there is not a rule across the board. They will get demoralised and that will affect their achievement. I think rookie matches as a second half to a PL meeting over five or six heats is the way to go. We get to see how they improve and it does nt hold the Raiders back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARRYH Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 That is a real shame as they seemed so positive at the end of last year....I believe Shane and Marc are both fixed up for next season though i cant say where,, as no official announcements have been made yet.....Start guessing ? waco not sure where you are getting your info from but shane is not fixed up for next year yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Sorry Gary if i have been misimformed,,I did however state that there has been no official announcement of any confirmed signing...I have no doubt a rider of Shanes ability will be fixed up shortly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARRYH Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 no problem but just think of the implications of such a posting, as any promoter looking would think oh well thats shane out of my thinking for a team place as his fixed up with a team when he isnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I cant understand why Shane was nt in Lens thoughts unless he thought he was Lakeside bound. A very good prospect indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) For goodness sake stop attacking a certain manager . That manager has more knowledge of Speedway at NL level than you'll ever have . Word I had (and that is not from that 'certain manager' but someone at Stoke ) is that young Mr Sarjeant needs to look a little closer to home for the source of his problems with the management last season. He was one of the most impressive riders I saw last season but I'd think twice before signing him. Edited December 5, 2011 by Halifaxtiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Is that the official statement from Len? If that is the case then the entrance price should reflect that and be half of what it currently is Does it look like I've quoted him? I do agree though, just like the PL team the NL team is too expensive to watch, there's no two ways about it. It looks like Nick Lee and Jed Collins are two names being mooted from the promotion looking at this press release http://speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.13798.6 with Collins being the name better of the two if this is to be believed. Perhaps something along the lines of this would be feasible: 1. Mason 2. Owen 3. Sarjeant 4. Hazelden 5. Morley 6. Collins 7. Freemantle 8. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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