Heathens 2012

[21st century heathen]

It's a big season for both of them as they look to push on in the NL and start to break into the PL properly. Assuming they're paired together again at 3/4 I would be looking for them to average at least 15.something between them, with Ash over 8 and Tom over 7. As harsh and blunt as it may sound less than that is not going to be good enough for us as a club or for them as riders looking to progress their careers.

 

By all accounts the Aussie trip seems to have been a huge success, and for Tom in particular I think the extra speedway experience could be crucial. He's still done very little speedway, although an accomplished racer in other respects, and he did admit that not racing speedway in between the 2010 and 2011 season had an effect on the early part of his season last year. I, for one, am hopeful that the Aussie trip has got him well and truly hooked on speedway and that his full commitment in future will be to speedway. That's not to suggest that I think he should quit grasstrack.

[greyhoundp]

Yes, a big season ahead in 2012 for Them and us, after what can best be described as a dissapointing season in 2011, for the team on the whole. Ash progressed very well, and young Darryl showed bags of potential, besides flashes of great riding from Royno, and his sometimes replacement Kyle.

[771neil]

I really hope lessons we re learnt and ash and tom are not together ash is in fact second in averages so think rules state top 2 and bottom 2 have to be in there right places

[21st century heathen]

Tom and Ash get in each other's way if they both miss it and are both trying to find a way through the traffic, though they do look quite comfortable when out front on a 5-1. As a spectator I felt there were signs of a growing understanding. Either way I'm happy to have both back. If they're not paired together I would revise my expectations slightly. Tom at 3/4 with Byron should average a little more as I feel Ash is better than him (just my opinion) so would therefore have taken more points off Tom. Ash at 5 is a tougher position so I would revise him down a bit and even a little under 8 would represent a good season for him.

 

Royno - depends if he goes flat out up front or drops in behind his team mate so 11 with BP's is what I would expect. Basically he shouldn't drop too many points to opponents but may not have a very high average if he sits in 2nd often.

 

JWW - I'd be happy with anything that's an improvement as I've not seen enough of him to offer any real analysis of where he should be in '12.

 

Tom - He should have done better last year so his sub-6 start point is low in my view. He should be looking to average 7-7½ in '12 if he's going to make a real breakthrough in speedway and move up to make a career in the PL, and perhaps beyond one day.

 

Ash - As above I think position in the team will dictate to a certain expect how much he can put on his average. He needs to be looking in the region of 8 either way. He did it in the early part of last season so the ability is there without improvement as such. He just needs to keep the bike rubber side down and put it together for the full season. I think he quite openly admits, I'm sure Neil can confirm or deny if he so chooses, that the heavy knocks affected his confidence last season. As we all know confidence is so important.

 

Boris - I know a lot of people rate him very highly, and I certainly don't have any problem with the guy, but I just haven't seen anything that really convinces me he's going make any sort of big step up. I might be wrong, and will be happy to hold my hands up if I'm wrong, but for now I'll just say that if others improve as I hope/expect then a solid 6½ from in the middle order will suit the team just fine. We can't afford to carry him if his average drops though as I feel it would pile pressure on ----->

 

Darryl - Fully deserved the award at the end of last season as he showed signs of good progress, battled well, lead confidently at times and was a real pain in the backside to anyone trying to hold him off. It was his first season and often the encore can be tricky, as Tom found out. So although I think that with better equipment for a full season, I believe he struggled with a few bits n bobs later in the season last year, he could make a significant step up I will keep expectations realistic. Near a point improvement to put him over 5 will be job done.

 

Number 7 - According to the Heathens FB feed there are on-going discussions with riders so this one's open to quite some debate. Depending on who we get he could prove the difference. If we are lucky enough to get a 'wonder-kid' that can bump up his 3-point start figure significantly we're looking very very good indeed. A more 'raw' novice rider in, that's looking to just justify himself and his position in the team/league with a 3.something at the end of the year, and we may not quite have enough fire power at the bottom end.

 

Whatever happens as long as the lads give us 100% effort and commitment they'll get the full backing of the large, relatively speaking, crowd.

 

Give it some ommer lads.

 

Neil - The only fixed positions are the top averaging rider at 1 and the lowest two at 6/7. We could start with Ash at number 2!

[villiers210]

Thats a fair enough assesment I'd say. In fact the only I would differ on is Byron (but you would have expected me to say that wouldn't you ). He's at home in South Africa at the moment training hard on his fitness, and has 2 new bikes to look forward to on his return. He has wanted to be part of the Dudley set up for over 2 years, and knows full well whats expected of him. I would be surprised (if he can steer clear of injury), if he doesn't end up with an 8+ at the end of the year.

 

I must say though, that the overall line-up looks to be nicely balanced, and a match for anybody. Can't wait now!!!!

 

'Ommer 'Um

[nickp]

I really hope lessons we re learnt and ash and tom are not together ash is in fact second in averages so think rules state top 2 and bottom 2 have to be in there right places

When Ash and Tom were down under and fans were asking about toms results you asked the question "do you support only one heathen". I posted and asked you how many heathens do you support and didn't get an answer. Obviously from the none answer I take it you support just the one.

You seem to have a downer on tom and try and score points in favour of Ash. Why don't you just leave it to the management and let the lads go out and do their jobs on the track.

I also hope that lessons have been learnt and you have realised that it is a team game and not as you told Ash last season to ride for your self and #### the others

[771neil]

21st century heathen I have said before the 2 big crashes ash had did knock his confidence and i m sure anyone that seen the one with kyle will agree it would knock most peoples confidence, but when he was at number 5 at the end he did a very good job and i hope he is there again and i know he hopes he is

[greyhoundp]

I must admit, i was rather surprised to read the announcement that The Heathens management are in talks with 4 riders for the final team spot, I can think of two, ie Daniel Greenwood, and Nathan Stoneman, who the others may be is somehing of a mystery.

I regard this last signing as being a very important one, because recent NL History has shown the need for Teams who aspire to lifting trophies to have more than an adequate 3 poiner, it needs a rider who is able from time to time to beat the more established riders at home or away, We have Richie Worral a Scunny last year, Nick Morris the year before at Buxton, Jerran Hart prior to that at Bournemouth, so as to who the 4 riders are in question, would anyone care to guess.?

[montie]

I must admit, i was rather surprised to read the announcement that The Heathens management are in talks with 4 riders for the final team spot, I can think of two, ie Daniel Greenwood, and Nathan Stoneman, who the others may be is somehing of a mystery.

I regard this last signing as being a very important one, because recent NL History has shown the need for Teams who aspire to lifting trophies to have more than an adequate 3 poiner, it needs a rider who is able from time to time to beat the more established riders at home or away, We have Richie Worral a Scunny last year, Nick Morris the year before at Buxton, Jerran Hart prior to that at Bournemouth, so as to who the 4 riders are in question, would anyone care to guess.?

 

Bit less important now the rules have changed,Jerran was at reserve almost all season where as Richie was only there a short period at the start of the year,infact i think his last go a reserve was his 7 rides against you guys,scunny won league last year due to huge improvements all over the team,there must have been 4 or 5 riders who put almost 3 points on there starting averages

[villiers210]

Bit less important now the rules have changed,Jerran was at reserve almost all season where as Richie was only there a short period at the start of the year,infact i think his last go a reserve was his 7 rides against you guys,scunny won league last year due to huge improvements all over the team,there must have been 4 or 5 riders who put almost 3 points on there starting averages

Not sure I quite agree there Montie. You say Richie was only at reserve for a short period, but the way the rules are these days, half the season was over before new averages took effect. The fact that "seven ride Richie" (as we call him at Dudley), increased his avereage to 7.75 by the year end, was a major factor in Scunthorpe doing so well last year I'd say.

 

Although I have in the past complained that updated averages should take effect much sooner, of course every team would talke advantage of an opportunity like this given the chance, and its what most teams are hoping for in 2012.

 

Having said all that, I aint knocking Scunthorpe one little bit - I have every respect for a team that can find new talent through its training school like Scunny does.

 

'Ommer 'Um

[greyhoundp]

Bit less important now the rules have changed,Jerran was at reserve almost all season where as Richie was only there a short period at the start of the year,infact i think his last go a reserve was his 7 rides against you guys,scunny won league last year due to huge improvements all over the team,there must have been 4 or 5 riders who put almost 3 points on there starting averages

 

Yes, and therefore when richie moved up, that gave you another strong guy down at reserve, not disputing the fact Scunthorpe won the League, you deserved it, I think overall your guys started on a combined average well under 40, and finished on a combined average of over 48.

But the fact remains, that i think the Title winning Team will need a reserve who is capable of scoring double figures, just my opinion but recent seasons have proven this.

[montie]

Richie was out of reserve by the end of may i think,after that Wrathall,Nielsen and Smethills shared the role ,all of them did there job but i still maintain that scunny won the title by having huge improvements throughout the team,my rider of the year for the Saints was Steve Worrall,put about 3 on his start average from main body of team,not reserve,also when you look at tac rides he nailed at away matches,at your place i think he did one that got us back in business,also,when he went to no1 beat all the the leagues top boys home and away,Heeps,Howarth etc

 

think the total team average was nearly 50,from 36 ish was it??

[superguest]

Richie was out of reserve by the end of may i think,after that Wrathall,Nielsen and Smethills shared the role ,all of them did there job but i still maintain that scunny won the title by having huge improvements throughout the team,my rider of the year for the Saints was Steve Worrall,put about 3 on his start average from main body of team,not reserve,also when you look at tac rides he nailed at away matches,at your place i think he did one that got us back in business,also,when he went to no1 beat all the the leagues top boys home and away,Heeps,Howarth etc

 

think the total team average was nearly 50,from 36 ish was it??

 

Have to admit the Saints management are a breath of fresh air. They give new riders a chance even if it weakens the team. The fact that they have managed to be successful every two years shows its a strategy that works well.

In a few years time, all the best British riders will be owned by Scunny! They could enter in all three leagues

Edited January 9, 2012 by superguest

[montie]

Have to admit the Saints management are a breath of fresh air. They give new riders a chance even if it weakens the team. The fact that they have managed to be successful every two years shows its a strategy that works well.

In a few years time, all the best British riders will be owned by Scunny! They could enter in all three leagues

 

The thing is about it there are benefits from the Saints all over British Speedway,in all leagues,in the U21`s,U18 and U 15,When you look back at these competions,riders who have progressed through Scunny have dominated the podium,the Aussie Scholarship is another

 

But to be fair these riders themselves deserve as much credit as they get

 

I often read on here about young Brits wanting PL places and looking to step up,well on Saturday at the Am meeting at Scunny,who was there, Worrall,Worrall and Irving,three riders who made the step up with success.

Just back from riding in Aussie,cold afternoon,yet they were there,racing in competative races,knocking seven bells out of each other,where were the rest of the young Brits who want PL places,you would think that there would have been a few riders there wanting to do this,but sorry to say they wernt

 

Also having them there excited the hell out of me after seeing the likes of Danny Phillips and Oliver Greenwood[watch these two in 2012] right there with them,add in Tom Young,Skipper Adam Wrathall all racing there nuts off,Saints Nl champs in 2013 why not??

 

Maybe the other NL lads who want PL racing should get themselves on track closed season too and pitch themselves against these lads who have made the step up

[June]

Montie......Brill post. Good meeting, but didn't see you there. we were in the 2nd stand. ( out of the cold ) Really impressed with the new Saints and it was good to see them all racing together with the old Saints.

[771neil]

When Ash and Tom were down under and fans were asking about toms results you asked the question "do you support only one heathen". I posted and asked you how many heathens do you support and didn't get an answer. Obviously from the none answer I take it you support just the one. You seem to have a downer on tom and try and score points in favour of Ash. Why don't you just leave it to the management and let the lads go out and do their jobs on the track. I also hope that lessons have been learnt and you have realised that it is a team game and not as you told Ash last season to ride for your self and #### the others

 

I told ash that yes as he was losing points for himself and the team by looking for his partner to early in races and funny i helped all heathens at some point or another last year TOM included in that so get your facts correct before coming on here trying to cause trouble while hidding behind username

[21st century heathen]

I would be surprised (if he can steer clear of injury), if he doesn't end up with an 8+ at the end of the year.

 

I must say though, that the overall line-up looks to be nicely balanced, and a match for anybody. Can't wait now!!!!

 

I would be surprised if he went over 8 in '12. Established riders rarely bump their average up that much from one season to the next. A point improvement represents a more realistic target for riders trying to recover from a dodgy year or two.

 

It's not easy to judge at the moment because no other team has named more than 5 riders, and some have not named any. But from what's been confirmed so far I don't think there's a team that should really 'scare' us. What we do have is huge potential for improvement throughout the team. Of course it needs to be realised, but there are plenty of riders on the 'right' average in our team.

 

21st century heathen I have said before the 2 big crashes ash had did knock his confidence and i m sure anyone that seen the one with kyle will agree it would knock most peoples confidence, but when he was at number 5 at the end he did a very good job and i hope he is there again and i know he hopes he is

 

Cheers Neil. I thought I'd read it somewhere and hadn't just made it up myself. Some of those crashes he had would shake up all but the truly crazy, and when combined it's no surprise that there's a psychological effect as well as a physical one. All in the past now though.

 

If I may be so bold - I think the responsibility of riding at 5 is a tough one for any rider. There's pressure to go out and win your races as your reserve partner may struggle and be at the back. The flip side is that if your reserve partner is there or thereabouts there's an expectation that as the senior rider in the partnership you help him out and defer to him even if he's on your preferred line. My personal opinion is that I would want an older and more experienced rider in the role. Just to be clear I will say that it just happens to be Ash we're talking about, my opinion would be the same of any young and relatively inexperienced rider.

 

I must admit, i was rather surprised to read the announcement that The Heathens management are in talks with 4 riders for the final team spot, I can think of two, ie Daniel Greenwood, and Nathan Stoneman, who the others may be is somehing of a mystery.

I regard this last signing as being a very important one, because recent NL History has shown the need for Teams who aspire to lifting trophies to have more than an adequate 3 poiner, it needs a rider who is able from time to time to beat the more established riders at home or away, We have Richie Worral a Scunny last year, Nick Morris the year before at Buxton, Jerran Hart prior to that at Bournemouth, so as to who the 4 riders are in question, would anyone care to guess.?

 

I don't think it's necessarily the case. What you need is riders that can improve their average significantly. We have that in other areas of the team. If the others do their job then a solid 3 pointer at the bottom that chips away and scores a few points regularly will be enough. It depends on how you've built your team. Of course a 3-pointer scoring double figures and taking 7 rides is very handy indeed, but it's not the only factor that will decide how the season pans out.

 

...scunny won league last year due to huge improvements all over the team,there must have been 4 or 5 riders who put almost 3 points on there starting averages

 

This is case in point. Yes, a high scoring reserve is good but a team that improves overall will probably walk away with the silverware as there's no weak link.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

When Ash and Tom were down under and fans were asking about toms results you asked the question "do you support only one heathen". I posted and asked you how many heathens do you support and didn't get an answer. Obviously from the none answer I take it you support just the one.

You seem to have a downer on tom and try and score points in favour of Ash. Why don't you just leave it to the management and let the lads go out and do their jobs on the track.

I also hope that lessons have been learnt and you have realised that it is a team game and not as you told Ash last season to ride for your self and #### the others

 

I told ash that yes as he was losing points for himself and the team by looking for his partner to early in races and funny i helped all heathens at some point or another last year TOM included in that so get your facts correct before coming on here trying to cause trouble while hidding behind username

 

Mod note - Just a preemptive strike here. Keep it friendly please guys.

[771neil]

21st century heathen i think there arguments for both ash at 5 or not i think he does well most of the time when under pressure the 4s and the amount off times he wore black/white hat spring to mind and as i ve said on here think its better he goes out knowing he has a weaker parnter and has to perform and do his job but hay just my opinion and its not my call

[Heathen1984]

I think ash is our 2n best rider, av him at number 5 all day.

[heathen79]

I think Ash at #5. But all sorts of permutations available here. Just a question, not a suggestion, but what about Tom at #2 with Adam? James at #3 and Byron at #4. Too radical?