TwoMinuteWarning Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 According to the Polish press, discussions are underway at the FIM as to whether the SWC (World Cup) should be replaced by the return of the World Pairs Championship. A decision will be made in 2012, with a view to the change, if decided, to happen in 2013. FIM cite the difficulty in finding enough teams to compete in the preliminary rounds, as many countries cannot find 5 riders of a high enough calibre to compete. Countries mentioned include Austria, Holland, Hungary, Croatia and Norway, but these countries are far more likely to be able to find 2 or 3 riders to compete in the World Pairs. Given Terry Russell's comments on the financial implications of the SWC in the current Speedway Star, as well as the resultant loss of a week's Elite League racing at the height of the season, I would suggest that the BSPA would probably support any change. And I understand their reasoning. But personally, I think the SWC generally provides some superb racing, year after year, and I would be very sad to see it go. Plus I don't think that a pairs championship can provide a true reflection of which nation has the best TEAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) But on the plus side you would get a race with two riders on the same side in each race competing instead of 1 rider from each country in a race making it closer to league racing than individual racing. It would also make it more global as countries like the US would be back in and dare I say it NZ. National Teams could go back to Test Matches something that was lost with SWC. again a team format rather than an individual one. Edited November 7, 2011 by kiwi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I don't really see how the additional of more minor nations to the preliminary rounds will enhance the SWC - it is all about the final week and the eight major qualifying teams. However, the idea of the World Pairs is very appealing. The format would need to be tweaked, the Elite Pairs format doesn't work for me, but BSI seem to be the masters of extracting the utmost excitement from a competition, so I would be interested to see them give it a go. Maybe another week could be set aside for this competition(!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 FIM cite the difficulty in finding enough teams to compete in the preliminary rounds, as many countries cannot find 5 riders of a high enough calibre to compete. If it was worth their while, there would be no problem finding countries to compete. That they're seriously suggesting reverting the SWC to a glorified pairs competition, shows just how much the FIM and their partner have taken the sport to the next level. With respect to team sizes though, they could run a 4TT format with 4-rider teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Let's face it, countries like Austria, Holland, Hungary, Croatia, Norway and NZ would not be able to find two world class riders any more than they can currently find five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Surely the World Pairs is a separate, new competition, why would BSI be able to claim them, they bought the rights to the WTC ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_boon Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'd like a yearly Pairs competition, and a four-yearly (or even bi-annual) World Cup, run with 7-man teams, across two or three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 For me the current format works best as you'd have over half the field just making up the numbers in a pairs format. the only change i would make to the current format is to bring a pairs style to it. instead of 1 rider from each nation i'd have 2 riders from 2 nations in each race but 4 nations in the meeting. either 4 riders to each team or leave it at 5 but make it so each rider rides with each of his team mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 To me the World (Team) Cup is the only proper World Championship we have left in the sport and always, as TMW says, produces great racing, well-supported meetings and exciting championship action. To lose such a long-standing event would be a tragedy for the sport.. I LOVE the idea though of the World Pairs returning - but this woud HAVE to be to supplement the international calendar alongside the World Cup and NOT to replace it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 To me the World (Team) Cup is the only proper World Championship we have left in the sport and always, as TMW says, produces great racing, well-supported meetings and exciting championship action. To lose such a long-standing event would be a tragedy for the sport.. I LOVE the idea though of the World Pairs returning - but this woud HAVE to be to supplement the international calendar alongside the World Cup and NOT to replace it... WOULDN'T afford the Polish story much credence. SWC may be revamped a little and a pairs competition has been mentioned if a date in an already crowded calendar could be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 The format would need to be tweaked, the Elite Pairs format doesn't work for me, but BSI seem to be the masters of extracting the utmost excitement from a competition, so I would be interested to see them give it a go. They'd likely use the classic 7-team, 21-heat format, just the same as they reverted to the old 16-rider, 20-heat format for the SGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 They'd likely use the classic 7-team, 21-heat format, just the same as they reverted to the old 16-rider, 20-heat format for the SGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 WOULDN'T afford the Polish story much credence. SWC may be revamped a little and a pairs competition has been mentioned if a date in an already crowded calendar could be found. Add the Champions League into the mix as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 If it was worth their while, there would be no problem finding countries to compete. With respect to team sizes though, they could run a 4TT format with 4-rider teams. As opposed to the "good old days" when prize money was great. In 1980, I guess the last year of England's "golden era", the England team got 90 quid a piece as prize money! Dave Jessup would have been England's top earning rider over the World Team Cup, including points/start money he would have earned a total of around 200 quid for three meetings. Kenny Carter who was non riding reseve in the semi got paid nowt. I ndo agree though about reducing the teams to 4 riders, and using the format used in the late 1980s. Otherwsise, I think the current format works well, though I'd get rid of the bl**dy Joker. If you need something like that, you could make heat 20 (top socres race) worth double points? For me the current format works best as you'd have over half the field just making up the numbers in a pairs format. I disagree - although Poland/Australia would be favourites, on a good day all of Sweden/Denmark/England/Russia and USA (Hancock doing a version of 1983 Sanders) could all at least compete for a podium spot. Would be great see a return of the pairs (in addition to, not replacing the SWC). Hold it in one venue, semis Friday and Saturday (or even a day meeting and a night meeting on the same Saturday)and the final on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 As opposed to the "good old days" when prize money was great. In 1980, I guess the last year of England's "golden era", the England team got 90 quid a piece as prize money! Dave Jessup would have been England's top earning rider over the World Team Cup, including points/start money he would have earned a total of around 200 quid for three meetings. Kenny Carter who was non riding reseve in the semi got paid nowt. If you consider that 200 quid then is equivalent to about 700-1000 quid today, the current prize money isn't really any better by the time you've deducted accommodation and travel expenses. However, times change and no-one's prepared to work down t'pit for thruppence ha'penny any more. The real issue though, isn't so much the teams that are successful in the WTC, but the ones scraping around at the bottom. Even more so for the ones starting in the preliminary rounds where the prize money is pitiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_minall Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well this would suck. The reason the current system works so well is that there is no team riding, and it makes for better racing (4 riders going for 1 patch rather than 2x2 riders going for 2 patches) yes speedway is predominantly team based and we all know that, but this is now an individual team based competition, and in my opinion provides the best racing of the year. I love the world cup, it's my highlight of the year and I think that it'd be silly to alter this now so drastically after years and years of development. Yes there are weak teams, but that's their problem. Maybe the rounds should be reduced? Maybe there should be stricter qualifying criteria? I don't know, but I don't think the format needs to change, especially as drastically as suggested in the initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguest Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well this would suck. The reason the current system works so well is that there is no team riding, and it makes for better racing (4 riders going for 1 patch rather than 2x2 riders going for 2 patches) yes speedway is predominantly team based and we all know that, but this is now an individual team based competition, and in my opinion provides the best racing of the year. I love the world cup, it's my highlight of the year and I think that it'd be silly to alter this now so drastically after years and years of development. Yes there are weak teams, but that's their problem. Maybe the rounds should be reduced? Maybe there should be stricter qualifying criteria? I don't know, but I don't think the format needs to change, especially as drastically as suggested in the initial post. Its more about the cost of paying for 8 teams (5 riders each) than about the format. Ideally we'd have proper meetings with 7 vs 7 but it costs too much. The pairs would be a good addition, maybe before a GP round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Its more about the cost of paying for 8 teams (5 riders each) than about the format. Ideally we'd have proper meetings with 7 vs 7 but it costs too much. The pairs would be a good addition, maybe before a GP round? What happens when we have a repeat of 1990 when one nation has to race the whole meeting with one rider? Will they introduce reserves and make them trios, only to realise it's then more of a team event and scrap it in favour of a World Cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_minall Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Its more about the cost of paying for 8 teams (5 riders each) than about the format. Ideally we'd have proper meetings with 7 vs 7 but it costs too much. The pairs would be a good addition, maybe before a GP round? As an addition to the world cup, this would be awesome. As a replacement, noooooooo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonButler Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Speedway being primarily a team sport I prefer the traditional team format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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