Gp Qualifier Berwick 16/6

[waiheke1]

So Janowski didn't get to compete in the qualifiers last year? Ohthat's right, he did.

Say, they had only the top 3 riders from GP stayed in and gave the top 13 qualifiers the remaining places - a totally open shop- - guess what, he wouldn't have qualified either as he didn't make the last 16 in a field without the worlds's top riders (and neither did Ward).

guess what, he gets to compete in qualifiers this year too!

 

As has been pointed out repeatedly, young talent actually has a better chance as if they don't qualify they aremuc more likely to be offsrred a wildcard if good enough than you r "journeyman" rider - I'd be very surprised if Janowski isn't in the field by 2014.

[oldace]

Old ground Oldace you must be blind if you think it isnt a CLOSED SHOP,Janowski a prime example he might get a place when he is 26 a career could be over by then to late.Open it up for EVERYBODY not a select few.

 

Sidney what part of the GP qualifying system are you not getting. Janowski, Ward etc and all the others you keep banging on about have all had an opportunity to qualify for the GP, the two mentioned failed to qualify and were not in the GP, exactly as a rider failing to qualify for a World Final doesn't get to race in it.

 

The difference is that despite failing to qualify the GP process takes account of other factors and despite a rider being eliminated he can still be offered a place, as Ward has been for this year, no doubt if Janowski continues to fail in the qualifiers but shows genuine world class he may also be offered this route.

 

You, like a few others, have read one poster in particular banging on about the so called "closed shop" and believed it without actually seeing if there is any truth in it, which there isn't. Once and for all there is a qualifing process for the GP and a rider good enough, or lucky enough can qualify

[stratton]

Sidney what part of the GP qualifying system are you not getting. Janowski, Ward etc and all the others you keep banging on about have all had an opportunity to qualify for the GP, the two mentioned failed to qualify and were not in the GP, exactly as a rider failing to qualify for a World Final doesn't get to race in it.

 

The difference is that despite failing to qualify the GP process takes account of other factors and despite a rider being eliminated he can still be offered a place, as Ward has been for this year, no doubt if Janowski continues to fail in the qualifiers but shows genuine world class he may also be offered this route.

 

You, like a few others, have read one poster in particular banging on about the so called "closed shop" and believed it without actually seeing if there is any truth in it, which there isn't. Once and for all there is a qualifing process for the GP and a rider good enough, or lucky enough can qualify

All riders outside the top 8? should have to qualify dont you see that Oldace everyyear?.Say if Pedersen comes 9th why should he automatically get in it the next?.All these qualifiers all over the world what a waste of money exspense total nonsense.At least in the old days you got eliminated on your own terms i no it could be brutal but it was the same for everyone These qualifiers also the u21s how much does this cost? i dread to think to me a total waste of money.A better way of doing it for me would be the top 8 qualify 2 other spots open injury or someone being unlucky.Then there would be 6 fresh spots available everyyear the bottom 8 in the series against say another 10 nominated riders reconised as the best in the world on there form in europe and potential.Maybe have a four meeting series with the best qualifying and if the old guard get there on merit fine.The exspense of these qualifiers must be immense but something needs to change dress it up how like it is a closed shop.

[oldace]

All riders outside the top 8? should have to qualify dont you see that Oldace everyyear?.Say if Pedersen comes 9th why should he automatically get in it the next?.All these qualifiers all over the world what a waste of money exspense total nonsense.At least in the old days you got eliminated on your own terms i no it could be brutal but it was the same for everyone These qualifiers also the u21s how much does this cost? i dread to think to me a total waste of money.A better way of doing it for me would be the top 8 qualify 2 other spots open injury or someone being unlucky.Then there would be 6 fresh spots available everyyear the bottom 8 in the series against say another 10 nominated riders reconised as the best in the world on there form in europe and potential.Maybe have a four meeting series with the best qualifying and if the old guard get there on merit fine.The exspense of these qualifiers must be immense but something needs to change dress it up how like it is a closed shop.

 

Ok Sidney I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stratton]

Ok Sidney I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your opinion i respect that no problem.

[oldace]

Your opinion i respect that no problem.

 

No mate it is not my opinion, it is just facts, you keep saying the GP is a closed shop and I was pointing out, backed up by real proof, that it is no such thing, if you wish to not believe that then I can not do anything about that. That is why I have given up!!!!!!!!!!!

[stratton]

No mate it is not my opinion, it is just facts, you keep saying the GP is a closed shop and I was pointing out, backed up by real proof, that it is no such thing, if you wish to not believe that then I can not do anything about that. That is why I have given up!!!!!!!!!!!

You have given up but you have responded,just answer simply why should the riders 9th to 16th automatically be in it the next year?.You say about qualifying fair anough but me and others have pointed out it is harder to be ousted from the series the FACTS are there in front of you.You are thinking about qualfying only not about is it fair for riders not to drop out.therefore maybe createing a chance to a newcomer think of it from that angle.

[oldace]

You have given up but you have responded,just answer simply why should the riders 9th to 16th automatically be in it the next year?.You say about qualifying fair anough but me and others have pointed out it is harder to be ousted from the series the FACTS are there in front of you.You are thinking about qualfying only not about is it fair for riders not to drop out.therefore maybe createing a chance to a newcomer think of it from that angle.

 

Is that for real? A rider must qualify by finishing in the top 8 of a season long qualifying competition against the best 15 riders in the world and you consider that to be easy.

[stratton]

Is that for real? A rider must qualify by finishing in the top 8 of a season long qualifying competition against the best 15 riders in the world and you consider that to be easy.

Know of course it isnt easy, it shouldnt be but most of the fringe riders outside the top 8 would more and likely qualify anyway.Would be fairer though lets be honest oldace every gp are the top 16 riders in it NO (ex Lung).I believe the way it is at the moment it is getting stale and the romance of the underdog is not there anymore.You still didnt answer is it in your opinion fair that say 12 or 13 riders automatically get in the next years series?.

[oldace]

Know of course it isnt easy, it shouldnt be but most of the fringe riders outside the top 8 would more and likely qualify anyway.Would be fairer though lets be honest oldace every gp are the top 16 riders in it NO (ex Lung).I believe the way it is at the moment it is getting stale and the romance of the underdog is not there anymore.You still didnt answer is it in your opinion fair that say 12 or 13 riders automatically get in the next years series?.

 

I think we have been here before mate, we will agree to differ

[stratton]

I think we have been here before mate, we will agree to differ

Thats fine oldace,i hope you enjoy your speedway this year.

[SCB]

All riders outside the top 8? should have to qualify dont you see that Oldace everyyear?.Say if Pedersen comes 9th why should he automatically get in it the next?

Because realistically, if he finishes 9th he is one of the top 15 riders in the World and thats what should be in the GP series every year.

 

People moan about Bomber always getting wildcards but people seem to ignore the fact he is probably one of the top 15 riders each season. People seem to think if you don't make top 8 you should not be in and 8 other random riders should replace them, they seem to be oblivious to the fact that it's possible that the top 15 riders in the World could potentially be the same 2 years running. Lets be honest, it's unlikely that the top 15 riders in the World will change greatly from seasons to season, theres probably only ever 4 or 5 riders at most who change each season and thats about the same number of changes made to the GP riders each year.

 

 

Know of course it isnt easy, it shouldnt be but most of the fringe riders outside the top 8 would more and likely qualify anyway.Would be fairer though lets be honest oldace every gp are the top 16 riders in it NO (ex Lung).I believe the way it is at the moment it is getting stale and the romance of the underdog is not there anymore.You still didnt answer is it in your opinion fair that say 12 or 13 riders automatically get in the next years series?.

What?! You owe me a new laptop as I just spat my tea over mine. You're claiming the GP is a closed shop and then moaning about a rider in the latest GP series who actually qualified! LOL

[stratton]

Because realistically, if he finishes 9th he is one of the top 15 riders in the World and thats what should be in the GP series every year.

 

People moan about Bomber always getting wildcards but people seem to ignore the fact he is probably one of the top 15 riders each season. People seem to think if you don't make top 8 you should not be in and 8 other random riders should replace them, they seem to be oblivious to the fact that it's possible that the top 15 riders in the World could potentially be the same 2 years running. Lets be honest, it's unlikely that the top 15 riders in the World will change greatly from seasons to season, theres probably only ever 4 or 5 riders at most who change each season and thats about the same number of changes made to the GP riders each year.

 

 

What?! You owe me a new laptop as I just spat my tea over mine. You're claiming the GP is a closed shop and then moaning about a rider in the latest GP series who actually qualified! LOL

Maybe that tells us about the overall standard? 1 new rider from the whole of the world all i say is the way it is new blood is not getting in.If he Llung qualified fair play to him but did Ward not qualify once?The qualifying series now and the under 21s is unbelievable it is so exspensive going to places like Latvia why?The bottom line is 13 guaranteed places everyyear? is that NOT a closed shop.Your point is spot on about Llung, and as you have said and i Harris Bjerre and co would qualify anyway but they would still have to do it and others would get a chance.I would like say a 8 or 10 pool of riders picked on form overall in europe and potential against the bottom 8 in the series.Would that not be great for speedway? what a way to finish a season.Most riders picked the public would agree on i actually think the sport would benefit my 8 maybe would be Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett Vaculiev.

[oldace]

13 guaranteed places!!! OK then tell me who are the thirteen guaranteed places allocated to for 2013.

 

There is not one single guaranteed place, how many times do you need it explaining to you.

 

There are 11 places open to qualifying, either through the more difficult route of the current series or the easier route of the challenge.

 

There are 4 places (maybe 1 too many) set aside for wild card picks, be that either exciting new talent, like Darcy Ward this year or riders clearly in the top 16 in the world, like maybe Nicki Pedersen also this year.

 

Which leaves one local, or otherwise, wildcard for each event.

 

Your argument is like saying there were 16 guaranteed places in a world final, all a rider had to do was qualify for them!!

 

 

my 8 maybe would be Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett Vaculiev

 

Unbelievably you go from detesting the way riders get there to advocating places to 8 riders who all failed in the qualifying event, you are contradicting yourself at every turn Sidney

 

 

You may or may not like the GP system but to keep saying over and over that it is a closed shop when it patently isn't only serves to make you look foolish, you are literally arguing black is white.

Edited March 1, 2012 by oldace

[stratton]

13 guaranteed places!!! OK then tell me who are the thirteen guaranteed places allocated to for 2013.

 

There is not one single guaranteed place, how many times do you need it explaining to you.

 

There are 11 places open to qualifying, either through the more difficult route of the current series or the easier route of the challenge.

 

There are 4 places (maybe 1 too many) set aside for wild card picks, be that either exciting new talent, like Darcy Ward this year or riders clearly in the top 16 in the world, like maybe Nicki Pedersen also this year.

 

Which leaves one local, or otherwise, wildcard for each event.

 

Your argument is like saying there were 16 guaranteed places in a world final, all a rider had to do was qualify for them!!

 

 

my 8 maybe would be Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett Vaculiev

 

Unbelievably you go from detesting the way riders get there to advocating places to 8 riders who all failed in the qualifying event, you are contradicting yourself at every turn Sidney

 

 

You may or may not like the GP system but to keep saying over and over that it is a closed shop when it patently isn't only serves to make you look foolish, you are literally arguing black is white.

Its not foolish Oldace its my opinion only, and i am not arrogant anough to presume i am right..As you have your opinion i say it is a Closed shop you say it isnt are you foolish for feeling that NO of course not its only debate .Oldace its only a opinion its not gospel,you are adamate and i respect that Crump Hancock Hampel Gollob Lindgren Bjerre harris Sayfutdinov Holder Pedersen Jonsson Lindback (12 riders plus Ward i would be surprised if theyre are many ommisions from that next year.Does that leave 1 spot for wild cards does that in my humble OPINION only leave 2 spots? Who cares Oldace you are right its not worth worrying about.

[oldace]

Its not foolish Oldace its my opinion only, and i am not arrogant anough to presume i am right..As you have your opinion i say it is a Closed shop you say it isnt are you foolish for feeling that NO of course not its only debate .Oldace its only a opinion its not gospel,you are adamate and i respect that Crump Hancock Hampel Gollob Lindgren Bjerre harris Sayfutdinov Holder Pedersen Jonsson Lindback (12 riders plus Ward i would be surprised if theyre are many ommisions from that next year.Does that leave 1 spot for wild cards does that in my humble OPINION only leave 2 spots? Who cares Oldace you are right its not worth worrying about.

 

I fully respect your opinion on the GP Sidney and I too don't think the qualification process is spot on but you keep repeating something that is untrue, thats not an opinion, thats just ignoring the truth

[stratton]

I fully respect your opinion on the GP Sidney and I too don't think the qualification process is spot on but you keep repeating something that is untrue, thats not an opinion, thats just ignoring the truth

Thats fine Oldace we will agree to differ a. .

[SCB]

Its not foolish Oldace its my opinion only

But fact trumps your opinion and there are 8 + 3 places for qualifiers and then 5 for wild cards.

 

Of you list of, "Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett, Vaculik" how many of them have made the final of the GP qualifers but list out there? I think it's only Miedzinski has made it. As for your suggestion of Kennett, that shows how poor your knowledge of speedway is. In fact, even more so is that you have not listed Greg Laguta if you're going to cherry pick riders.

[stratton]

My knowledge of speedway is certainly on par with you but that wouldnt take a lot.How long have you been watching speedway 2minutes?.Agree with you about the Lagutas i like both of them theyre are others.The ones i picked were just random choices Woffinden certainly Kennett i believe deserves to test himself against the best and he is british.You did make me chuckle,you probably didnt even see a one off final you can always have a look on you tube.

[g13webb]

First, let me say that I’m not against the concept of the Grand Prix series, but I am against the organisation of it. . . The organisers have taken our Blue Riband event and turned it into a moneymaking machine that gives no reward back into our sport. There is no connection between the SGP and the respective leagues of the world and all it does is cause a fixture build-up by dominating most Saturday nights.

 

People tuning into Sky on a Saturday night to see the SGP series are given a false impression that the speedway we see at our home venues is of a similar standard with world class riders. This is so far off the truth with only 4 riders racing in this country. The bread and butter world of league racing is where the sport needs to generate more interest. It needs a connection with the glamour of the SGP and this should be the first priority of the organisers.

 

As pointed out already, by ‘Sidney’, I also believe the closed shop scenario is a joke. In response to that, ‘Oldace’ has said that by finishing in the top 8 one year is a form of qualification to the next year, agreed. But the wording is Wrong! Its not qualification, It’s a reward for the effort they made during the current series. ‘Hence the Closed Shop Syndrome’.

 

You can’t run a series to find a World Champion, and run it as a qualifier at the same time. That’s ridiculous. Just another thing that is wrong with the organisation. Riders should be focusing all their attention on winning the title not thinking about accumulating enough points for the following year. I believe the SGP needs more structure, a qualification system that is set in stone and that each and everyone knows. We don’t want wild card entries, invitations, or so-called qualifying rounds, we want a system that is fair to all and simple to understand.

 

(As I previously posted on another thread) My feelings of qualification to the GP series could be far better. The implication of which could have a far-reaching effect on our Elite League. I don’t believe it to be right that those riders who finish outside to the top three should have automatic qualification to the next series. My suggestion would be that, top three would go through to next years series, Joined by the top three in the averages from Poland, Denmark, Sweden and England. (If a rider qualifies from two leagues his place is allocated to the next rider on the list.). This would total 15 plus one extra as dominated by the hosts of each meeting.

 

The effect of this would give the EL more appeal to the star riders, who at present choose to give it a miss. It would also give added insentative for whose riders, who race in league fixtures, some, without a ‘hope in hell’ of ever gaining qualification under the present system. It would form a connection between each league organisation and that of the world stage. It would create more doors of opportunity for the riders.

 

No doubt, most of the top riders will still contest the series, as they do now. But it would illuminate the same riders racing ‘year in year out’ on the knowledge there’s always next year, even though some will never be good enough to be World Champion.

Edited March 4, 2012 by GRW123