Gp Qualifier Berwick 16/6

[hagonshocker]

But fact trumps your opinion and there are 8 + 3 places for qualifiers and then 5 for wild cards.

 

Of you list of, "Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett, Vaculik" how many of them have made the final of the GP qualifers but list out there? I think it's only Miedzinski has made it. As for your suggestion of Kennett, that shows how poor your knowledge of speedway is. In fact, even more so is that you have not listed Greg Laguta if you're going to cherry pick riders.

Sidneys knowledge of speedway ISNT poor and ti think thats a bit insulting of you to insinuate that...but then judgeing by your past record on here that bitchy comment isnt that surprising ..just because you disagree with him doesnt prove anything about his knowledge of the sport....i'd like to sit you two down sometime with a speedway quiz going back some decades and im pretty confident my money would be safe with a bet on Sidney but thats not to say i would accuse you of having no idea about speedway....just because someone isnt in the forum clique and hasnt got 35 gazillion posts i.e sat on here 24/7 shouldnt detract from the fact he has been enjoying this sport some 40 years....more than me whose pushing 36 but we wont claim to be the be all and end all of all things speedway trivia but we (i would like to believe) know a bit about the sport.

To conclude i have to admit theres some on here i like and respect and theres some i definatly dislike....no clues given but like previously said wouldnt offend them with doubts as to there knowledge.

[JCookie]

So he knows what happened in some random cup meeting back in 1976, despite the fact he cannot put together a coherent argument it makes him more knowledgeable?

[SCB]

Sidneys knowledge of speedway ISNT poor and ti think thats a bit insulting of you to insinuate that...but then judgeing by your past record on here that bitchy comment isnt that surprising ..just because you disagree with him doesnt prove anything about his knowledge of the sport....i'd like to sit you two down sometime with a speedway quiz going back some decades and im pretty confident my money would be safe with a bet on Sidney but thats not to say i would accuse you of having no idea about speedway....just because someone isnt in the forum clique and hasnt got 35 gazillion posts i.e sat on here 24/7 shouldnt detract from the fact he has been enjoying this sport some 40 years....more than me whose pushing 36 but we wont claim to be the be all and end all of all things speedway trivia but we (i would like to believe) know a bit about the sport.

To conclude i have to admit theres some on here i like and respect and theres some i definatly dislike....no clues given but like previously said wouldnt offend them with doubts as to there knowledge.

Firstly we're talking speedway today, not in 1936 or some obscure year.

Secondly I'm willing to bet I could hold my own in a speedway quiz with Sidney going back as far as you like.

[stratton]

Firstly we're talking speedway today, not in 1936 or some obscure year.

Secondly I'm willing to bet I could hold my own in a speedway quiz with Sidney going back as far as you like.

When did you start going 2011? not a problem the difference is i see the riders alot of them anyway thats good anough for me.SCB if i ever want to know something i will give you a shout as you are the exspert.

 

So he knows what happened in some random cup meeting back in 1976, despite the fact he cannot put together a coherent argument it makes him more knowledgeable?

Arguement about what Cookie not being funny what is it to do with you anyway? did i say i was knowledgeable dont think so.

[glycerol]

News just in on Argentina's second nomination for this meeting..... take a bow Mr. Facundo Albin!

[SCB]

When did you start going 2011? not a problem the difference is i see the riders alot of them anyway thats good anough for me.SCB if i ever want to know something i will give you a shout as you are the exspert.

I've been going long enough to know Eddie Kennett can't hack it outside the UK and that Greg Laguta is one of the top 10-15 riders in the World.

 

Believe it or not, speedway doesn't just take place in Blunsdon or even the UK. LOL.

[stratton]

I've been going long enough to know Eddie Kennett can't hack it outside the UK and that Greg Laguta is one of the top 10-15 riders in the World.

 

Believe it or not, speedway doesn't just take place in Blunsdon or even the UK. LOL.

Laguta last year struggled at first i was chuffed when he showed what he could do.Kennett probably isnt good anough but he impressed me last year before his ban he is determined.SCB you talk a good game but theyre are loads on here who have great knowledge(Not saying you havent any) but alot of them have because they have physically seen these riders.What have you seen a poor relation of the british league the gp at Cardiff once a year and research on the internet the difference is those people i have said about have watched speedway for years you havent i am afraid.

[glycerol]

Two more names confirmed for this event are the Brit pairing of Chris "Bomber" Harris and Tai Woffinden and we hear that Mark Lemon, as Aussie team manager, is carefully considering which two stars to pick from his WTC squad for the meeting...

 

And then we've still got two Yanks, and a Russian, A Dane, A Swede, a Dutchman, a Czech and a Pole to come!

Edited March 4, 2012 by glycerol

[SCB]

Laguta last year struggled at first i was chuffed when he showed what he could do.Kennett probably isnt good anough but he impressed me last year before his ban he is determined.SCB you talk a good game but theyre are loads on here who have great knowledge(Not saying you havent any) but alot of them have because they have physically seen these riders.What have you seen a poor relation of the british league the gp at Cardiff once a year and research on the internet the difference is those people i have said about have watched speedway for years you havent i am afraid.

QED.

 

Greg Laguta didn't ride in a single GP last season. His brother Artem did.

[stratton]

QED.

 

Greg Laguta didn't ride in a single GP last season. His brother Artem did.

Are they both not talented in there own right? i like both my friend prefers Greg i do like Artem do you not realise both are talented?.

[waiheke1]

All riders outside the top 8? should have to qualify dont you see that Oldace everyyear?.Say if Pedersen comes 9th why should he automatically get in it the next?.All these qualifiers all over the world what a waste of money exspense total nonsense.At least in the old days you got eliminated on your own terms i no it could be brutal but it was the same for everyone These qualifiers also the u21s how much does this cost? i dread to think to me a total waste of money.A better way of doing it for me would be the top 8 qualify 2 other spots open injury or someone being unlucky.Then there would be 6 fresh spots available everyyear the bottom 8 in the series against say another 10 nominated riders reconised as the best in the world on there form in europe and potential.Maybe have a four meeting series with the best qualifying and if the old guard get there on merit fine.The exspense of these qualifiers must be immense but something needs to change dress it up how like it is a closed shop.

 

Sidney, you say that the current system is a closed shop, and that that is a failing of the current system.

Currently there are 3 slots for riders from outside the series, open to pretty much any rider in the world, with a knockout system in place.

Your proposal is to remove these qualifying spots, replacing them with nominated riders (akin to the wildcards which you have railed against) - leaving precisely "zero spots" for automatical qualifying from outside the series.

Can you explain how this is more of an "open" shop? You've made mention of the current system having no "romance" - can you explain how under your proposal there is a chance for a shock qualifier (say someone from outside the top leagues) to qualify?

You seem to be contradicting yourself!

 

That's not to say that your proposal is without merit, certainly the 8 riders you list (if we substitute G Laguta for Kennet) is stronger than the top 8 in the GP qualifiers last year. What does that tell you ? That selecting riders based onsubjective criteria (but based on results in things like domestic league, WTC etc) is more effective in getting a high quality field than a knockout qualifying system. And that's what the GP organisers have realised too - hence why they have 4 "permanent wildcard slots" as this allows them to make sure the standard of the field is high (i.e. not missing any genuine title contenders) which a) makes it a true world championship and is arguably a commercial neccesity.

 

Also, you seem to be doing away with the "local wildcard" spot. I think there is no way that that is going to happen, nor do I believe it should - let's face it, the extra permanent slot is unlikely to be going to a title contender, and if you are doing away with the moermanent nominated riders, it makes the local wildcard spot even more important (otherwise you could very likely end up with the British GP with no British rider) - and lets face it, almost all major world sporting events have a spot for the host nation.

 

 

Sidneys knowledge of speedway ISNT poor and ti think thats a bit insulting of you to insinuate that...but then judgeing by your past record on here that bitchy comment isnt that surprising ..just because you disagree with him doesnt prove anything about his knowledge of the sport....i'd like to sit you two down sometime with a speedway quiz going back some decades and im pretty confident my money would be safe with a bet on Sidney but thats not to say i would accuse you of having no idea about speedway....just because someone isnt in the forum clique and hasnt got 35 gazillion posts i.e sat on here 24/7 shouldnt detract from the fact he has been enjoying this sport some 40 years....more than me whose pushing 36 but we wont claim to be the be all and end all of all things speedway trivia but we (i would like to believe) know a bit about the sport.

To conclude i have to admit theres some on here i like and respect and theres some i definatly dislike....no clues given but like previously said wouldnt offend them with doubts as to there knowledge.

I suggest that watching a lot of speedway, or being able to reccite random facts, does not neccesarily equate to speedway knowledge...

So he knows what happened in some random cup meeting back in 1976, despite the fact he cannot put together a coherent argument it makes him more knowledgeable?

but neither does an inability to formulate coherent written arguments preclude speedway knowledge either.

[stratton]

Sidney, you say that the current system is a closed shop, and that that is a failing of the current system.

Currently there are 3 slots for riders from outside the series, open to pretty much any rider in the world, with a knockout system in place.

Your proposal is to remove these qualifying spots, replacing them with nominated riders (akin to the wildcards which you have railed against) - leaving precisely "zero spots" for automatical qualifying from outside the series.

Can you explain how this is more of an "open" shop? You've made mention of the current system having no "romance" - can you explain how under your proposal there is a chance for a shock qualifier (say someone from outside the top leagues) to qualify?

You seem to be contradicting yourself!

 

That's not to say that your proposal is without merit, certainly the 8 riders you list (if we substitute G Laguta for Kennet) is stronger than the top 8 in the GP qualifiers last year. What does that tell you ? That selecting riders based onsubjective criteria (but based on results in things like domestic league, WTC etc) is more effective in getting a high quality field than a knockout qualifying system. And that's what the GP organisers have realised too - hence why they have 4 "permanent wildcard slots" as this allows them to make sure the standard of the field is high (i.e. not missing any genuine title contenders) which a) makes it a true world championship and is arguably a commercial neccesity.

 

Also, you seem to be doing away with the "local wildcard" spot. I think there is no way that that is going to happen, nor do I believe it should - let's face it, the extra permanent slot is unlikely to be going to a title contender, and if you are doing away with the moermanent nominated riders, it makes the local wildcard spot even more important (otherwise you could very likely end up with the British GP with no British rider) - and lets face it, almost all major world sporting events have a spot for the host nation.

 

 

 

I suggest that watching a lot of speedway, or being able to reccite random facts, does not neccesarily equate to speedway knowledge...

 

but neither does an inability to formulate coherent written arguments preclude speedway knowledge either.

Even what i suggested i am not that keen on but think it might be better than the present system.I just am not keen on the safety net that the series creates at the moment for a chosen few,The qualifying rounds are they really working ?must be at a great exspence as well. it wont change anyway so i will have to go with the flow.

[waiheke1]

Sydney - you haven't answered the question though - how is what you are proposing an "open shop."

 

i think ideally there would be a qualifying series - perhaps 64 riders, randonly drawn into 4 meetings, then seeded for a seconfd round of meetings based on perfomance in the first round). Points system as per GPs, after two meetings, the bottom 16 riders would drop out. Same again for another two meetings, another 16 riders drop out (i.e. the 16 with the least points over the preceing 4 meetings), and so on until a final meeting for the top 16. From this I'd say the top two riders straight through to the GP, next 8 meet 9-14 from the GP, with two spots for the top 2 in the world under 21s all meeting in a two day GP challenge - top 3 to qualify.

Of course, from a practical point of view this would never work, two much disruption to domestic leagues and the cost would be too great. So, back to the drawing board...

[stratton]

Sydney - you haven't answered the question though - how is what you are proposing an "open shop."

 

i think ideally there would be a qualifying series - perhaps 64 riders, randonly drawn into 4 meetings, then seeded for a seconfd round of meetings based on perfomance in the first round). Points system as per GPs, after two meetings, the bottom 16 riders would drop out. Same again for another two meetings, another 16 riders drop out (i.e. the 16 with the least points over the preceing 4 meetings), and so on until a final meeting for the top 16. From this I'd say the top two riders straight through to the GP, next 8 meet 9-14 from the GP, with two spots for the top 2 in the world under 21s all meeting in a two day GP challenge - top 3 to qualify.

Of course, from a practical point of view this would never work, two much disruption to domestic leagues and the cost would be too great. So, back to the drawing board...

It is complicated i know, your suggestions seem good. My own feeling is i would love the romance of every speedway rider being able to have a go if he wished.That is not a reality we all know that even what i am suggesting it is still a closed shop though.Might be a bit fairer the qualfying rounds for me dont work they are exspensive and the u21s series how much does that cost travelling to places like Latvia? i dont know really what the solution is? other sports a couple of examples) Becker as a unseeded raw 18 year old winning Wimbledon and Joe Johnson a 500/1 shot winning at the crucible there will never ever be that possibility happening in speedway again.

[PHILIPRISING]

It is complicated i know, your suggestions seem good. My own feeling is i would love the romance of every speedway rider being able to have a go if he wished.That is not a reality we all know that even what i am suggesting it is still a closed shop though.Might be a bit fairer the qualfying rounds for me dont work they are exspensive and the u21s series how much does that cost travelling to places like Latvia? i dont know really what the solution is? other sports a couple of examples) Becker as a unseeded raw 18 year old winning Wimbledon and Joe Johnson a 500/1 shot winning at the crucible there will never ever be that possibility happening in speedway again.

 

BUT there is which is one reason why your argument has as many holes as a sieve. For example: a young Aussie could have come through the rounds back home this winter, go through the various stages in Europe this year and finish in the top three at the GP Challenge and, bingo, he is in the championship chase next year. It is possible, just as it has always been.

[oldace]

It is complicated i know, your suggestions seem good. My own feeling is i would love the romance of every speedway rider being able to have a go if he wished.That is not a reality we all know that even what i am suggesting it is still a closed shop though.Might be a bit fairer the qualfying rounds for me dont work they are exspensive and the u21s series how much does that cost travelling to places like Latvia? i dont know really what the solution is? other sports a couple of examples) Becker as a unseeded raw 18 year old winning Wimbledon and Joe Johnson a 500/1 shot winning at the crucible there will never ever be that possibility happening in speedway again.

 

A raw 18 year old!!! Becker happened to be be ranked about 20 in the world in 1985 in an era of only 16 seeds. Unseeded doesn't mean qualifier, no qualifier has ever won Wimbledon. It is strange that in your contempt of the four seeded places in a GP you hold up Wimbledon as an example, a tournament that seeds 32 players directly into it. Another example you give is the snooker world final where half the field are given places without the need to qualfy

[stratton]

A raw 18 year old!!! Becker happened to be be ranked about 20 in the world in 1985 in an era of only 16 seeds. Unseeded doesn't mean qualifier, no qualifier has ever won Wimbledon. It is strange that in your contempt of the four seeded places in a GP you hold up Wimbledon as an example, a tournament that seeds 32 players directly into it. Another example you give is the snooker world final where half the field are given places without the need to qualfy

I was wrong he was 17 nearly 18? and he was UNSEEDED was Becker exspected to win Wimbledon no a complete outsider a star was BORN because he was a given a chance.Johnson in snooker he had failed under the lights of tv and his fellow pros new he was good but he had failed,That year winning the championship was a complete shock Davis then was really dominant in snooker.Sunderland beating that great Leeds side did you exspect that?In Snooker only 16 out of 130 odd pros qualify for the WC automatic the rest have to QUALIFY snooker is not a closed shop anymore unlike speedway.

[oldace]

I was wrong he was 17 nearly 18? and he was UNSEEDED was Becker exspected to win Wimbledon no a complete outsider a star was BORN because he was a given a chance.Johnson in snooker he had failed under the lights of tv and his fellow pros new he was good but he had failed,That year winning the championship was a complete shock Davis then was really dominant in snooker.Sunderland beating that great Leeds side did you exspect that?In Snooker only 16 out of 130 odd pros qualify for the WC automatic the rest have to QUALIFY snooker is not a closed shop anymore unlike speedway.

 

16 out of 32 places places is not a closed shop but 4 out of 16 is!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 5, 2012 by oldace

[stratton]

16 out of 32 places places is not a closed shop but 4 out of 16 is!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are only about 140 pros in snooker i dont think amateures are aloud in it.Therefore all the events in there calendar year gives each player a seeding. if you have EARNED the right over the year is that FAIR?.16 seeds are through. Another 16 spots available for the tv stages therefore 124 players all have the same chance for 16 spots seems fairer to me than the gp series.The gpseries you know Oldace with the wildcards ect there are only about 3 places.Thats reality Andersen,Lindback and LIUNG (2 of them have had loads of gps between them anyway the other he got in by default (pepe?.Is that not a closed shop? Snooker might even do away with the 16 seedings and have a fa. cup format but they want the whole year to have a carrott at the end of it something to play for and appearing at Sheffield is certainly that.

[waiheke1]

other sports a couple of examples) Becker as a unseeded raw 18 year old winning Wimbledon and Joe Johnson a 500/1 shot winning at the crucible there will never ever be that possibility happening in speedway again.

Sidney - can you tell me in what year an 18 year old won the speedway world final, as I must have missed it. Or even a 500-1 long shot did?

Emil finished on the rostrum in 2009, was not that far off winning it, so I'm not sure how you can rule out the possibility of a teenager ever winning the GP.

Of course, the chances of a 500-1 long shot winning it are very slim (by definition) - but notably the examples you have given won "knockout" compeitions, whereas the chances of an upset in a league style event are much slimmer - not because of "open" or "closed" shop, but because performances are needed to be sustained over a whople year - just as the FA cup has a much greater chance of an upset victor than the Permiership.