Speedway's Best Ever Rivalries?

[stratton]

It swapped after Hans won his first individual title in 1986. Erik had the psychological advantage until then, but then Hans won three of the last four titles before Erik's injury. The only time Erik got the better of Hans once Hans was World Champion was the 1988 World Final - otherwise it was all Hans from 1986 onwards.

 

But for Olsen's interference in helping out Erik despite being the Danish team manager (conflict of interests, or what?), I think Hans would have won his first World title sooner (especially if you consider the "team orders" Olsen gave to Knudsen in 1985 to wipe Nielsen out ). Olsen wanted to stop Nielsen, because he knew he could beat his record, which of course he did.

 

Nielsen dominated in a way that Olsen never did.

 

All the best

Rob

Did he dominate? one real threat really up until Erik,s injury Erik. Olsen rode from 1970 till 1981,the level then was unbelievable and was always there with a chance.Nielsen i would put Lee Penhall,Sanders,Sigalos,Carter in his era did he master those no he didnt they disapeared. Not Hans Nielsens fault and he went on and had a great career fair play to him.

[stratton]

Not forgetting his perfect 12.00 away average in 1986 . 11.83 overall...bloody awesome.

Nielsen,s average was awesome ,Ivan did he get a 11.74 average? i think you will find the opposition was higher then thou than 1986.

[lucifer sam]

Nielsen,s average was awesome ,Ivan did he get a 11.74 average? i think you will find the opposition was higher then thou than 1986.

 

We looked at this a while ago. After some investigation, it turned out that two tape touching exclusions hadn't been counted in Mauger's 1969 figures. The best top flight league averages were:

 

1. Nielsen 11.83 (1986)

2. Nielsen 11.73 (1987)

3. Fundin 11.60 (1958)

4. Michanek 11.55 (1973)

5. Duggan 11.54 (1947)

6. Mauger 11.53 (1969)

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 12, 2011 by lucifer sam

[ImpartialOne]

Did he dominate? one real threat really up until Erik,s injury Erik. Olsen rode from 1970 till 1981,the level then was unbelievable and was always there with a chance.Nielsen i would put Lee Penhall,Sanders,Sigalos,Carter in his era did he master those no he didnt they disapeared. Not Hans Nielsens fault and he went on and had a great career fair play to him.

It's not a race, take your time. Maybe even go back and edit your mistakes so people can understand you?

 

It's like Vicki Pollard on crack.

 

Re: Olsen:1967-1983.

Edited November 12, 2011 by ImpartialOne

[lucifer sam]

Not forgetting his perfect 12.00 away average in 1986 . 11.83 overall...bloody awesome.

 

When a Swindon fan calls an Oxford rider bloody awesome, he must be.

 

All the best

Rob

[stratton]

It's not a race, take your time. Maybe even go back and edit your mistakes so people can understand you?

 

It's like Vicki Pollard on crack.

Why debate?Parsloes said yesterday what a bully you are i thought that was harsh.Just debate Rob did ,he never got silly you come on you think you are clever.Is it to hard for you like i said before Falcace wiped the floor with you.To make fun and mock you have got to have knowledge you havent.Get your history of speedway book out get reading like i said before wouldnt be so bad if you new your stuff.

[stratton]

It's not a race, take your time. Maybe even go back and edit your mistakes so people can understand you?

 

It's like Vicki Pollard on crack.

 

Re: Olsen:1967-1983.

1970 till 1981 i said then he had chances of winning the world title? 83 was never going to win at Norden was he? Think first mr no it all.

[ImpartialOne]

Why debate?Parsloes said yesterday what a bully you are i thought that was harsh.Just debate Rob did ,he never got silly you come on you think you are clever.Is it to hard for you like i said before Falcace wiped the floor with you.To make fun and mock you have got to have knowledge you havent.Get your history of speedway book out get reading like i said before wouldnt be so bad if you new your stuff.

Brilliant. I'm off to talk to a Teddy bear now and compare.

Edited November 12, 2011 by ImpartialOne

[ImpartialOne]

1970 till 1981 i said then he had chances of winning the world title? 83 was never going to win at Norden was he? Think first mr no it all.

You said Olsen rode from 1970-1981. I corrected you and pointed out that he rode in Britain from 1967-1983.

 

Now try not to read what is not there and you may find it will help your cause in having a debate.

[stratton]

Brilliant. I'm off to talk to a Teddy bear now and compare.

Clever mr no it all, who dosent know as much as he thinks he does.Change your name impartial one to MR NO IT ALL.

[stratton]

You said Olsen rode from 1970-1981. I corrected you and pointed out that he rode in Britain from 1967-1983.

 

Now try not to read what is not there and you may find it will help your cause in having a debate.

Debate with you, you dont debate its your opinion or nothing.

[ImpartialOne]

Debate with you, you dont debate its your opinion or nothing.

Ole Olsen's career span is not an opinion it's a fact. As for changing my name to NO IT ALL, why would I do that? It doesn't even make sense.

[WIE-JA]

Did he dominate? one real threat really up until Erik,s injury Erik.

Maybe that's because he was so dominant

[nw42]

I always found Olsen boring to watch, white line merchant mostly, I know there are a couple of youtube clips of him making passes, before someone posts one to prove me wrong, but it wasn't what he was known for. Nielsen did seem to have a bit more about him in terms of versatility but I can't say he was ever high on my list of riders I would travel to see. Nielsen looked awkward on a bike to me, Olsen did his best work at the gate.

 

Lets face it neither of them were blessed with much natural talent, not like Kenny Carter or Joe Screen

 

Gundersen was exciting to watch, looked a natural and seemed tailor made for a speedway bike, more Americanised somehow.

 

As for the rivalries, Olsen let himself down in the way he treated Nielsen, whatever went on should have been put aside for the good of Danish speedway but he had to assert his control, was always the same, ran the GP's with what seemed like the same attitude. Nielsen & Gundersen seemed to behave themselves and let their riding do the talking, it must have been really hard for Hans being out in the cold, it wasn't as though he could transfer his allegiance to another country, surely they would never allow that, never.

[stratton]

I always found Olsen boring to watch, white line merchant mostly, I know there are a couple of youtube clips of him making passes, before someone posts one to prove me wrong, but it wasn't what he was known for. Nielsen did seem to have a bit more about him in terms of versatility but I can't say he was ever high on my list of riders I would travel to see. Nielsen looked awkward on a bike to me, Olsen did his best work at the gate.

 

Lets face it neither of them were blessed with much natural talent, not like Kenny Carter or Joe Screen

 

Gundersen was exciting to watch, looked a natural and seemed tailor made for a speedway bike, more Americanised somehow.

 

As for the rivalries, Olsen let himself down in the way he treated Nielsen, whatever went on should have been put aside for the good of Danish speedway but he had to assert his control, was always the same, ran the GP's with what seemed like the same attitude. Nielsen & Gundersen seemed to behave themselves and let their riding do the talking, it must have been really hard for Hans being out in the cold, it wasn't as though he could transfer his allegiance to another country, surely they would never allow that, never.

Yes i think you are right Hans was treated terribly,and he showed how much a professional he was to just carry on with the job.Olsen i never ever liked his involvement in the gps,and i think is a man you wouldnt cross.

[lucifer sam]

Yes i think you are right Hans was treated terribly,and he showed how much a professional he was to just carry on with the job.Olsen i never ever liked his involvement in the gps,and i think is a man you wouldnt cross.

 

Sidney, but doesn't that show the strength of character of Nielsen, that he did dare to cross Olsen, and became a World Champion despite Ole Olsen.

 

All the best

Rob

[stratton]

Sidney, but doesn't that show the strength of character of Nielsen, that he did dare to cross Olsen, and became a World Champion despite Ole Olsen.

 

All the best

Rob

Yes it does Rob,you are right I always thought when Hans started out at Wolves Ole was a bit of a mentor to him?Maybe Olsen did feel threatened by Nielsen,i couldnt understand why the relationship soured later on.

[waiheke1]

I think Nielsen is one of the five riders who have an argument for being considered the greatest of all time – the others being Mauger, Briggs, Fundin and Rickardson. Nielsen wasn’t as naturally gifted as say Penhall, just as Mauger wasn’t as say Collins, but when you look achievements…there’s no question he is up there with the very,very best.

I think if GPs had been in place in Nielsen’s era he would be regarded as THE greatest, however as it was I think he missed out on too many titles due to one bad ride (or lost run-offs) to be regarded as number one. However, I’d rank him above Olsen, who I’d put in the next category of riders – along with the likes of Gundersen, Penhall, PC x2, Ronnie Moore, Jason Crump - riders who are all time greats, but wouldn’t be, IMHO, considered as candidates for the all time number 1 spot.

 

Somewhat strangely, I think Nielsen would have won MORE world titles than he did if Gundersen had not been injured – he seemed to lose some edge after that, whereas his performance in the 89 World Final was absolutely immense. I would disagree with Rob that Nielsen had overcome the edge Gundersen had over him – I think head to head in the finals 86-89 Gundersen had a 4-2 advantage- but despite that there is no question that Nielsen was best in the world in that period.

 

Sidney – I think possibly the reason you don’t rank Nielsen as highly as Penhall/Lee was they peaked earlier in their careers– so when Penhall/Lee were at their peak (or even Carter/Sigalos) Nielsen was not. However none of those riders achieved the sustained excellence that Nielsen did, and which I believe is the true measure of an alltime great. There was a debate in the backtrack forum about best foreign rider of the 80s and I chose Penhall – however, I’ve changed my mind on that, and given Nielsen’s additional achievements in the 90s, I think he’s unquestionably the greatest of that era.

 

Back on the topic of great rivalries – there was evidently a great deal of bitterness between the Collins brothers (some at least) and Kenny Carter. In his auto-biography, Alan Carter recalls being at a speedway meeting a few years after Kenny’s demise and making a comment along the lines of “Our Kenny sure could blow them away on the racetrack”, to which Neil Collins replied “Yeah, and then he blew himself away!” Ouch!

[stratton]

I think Nielsen is one of the five riders who have an argument for being considered the greatest of all time – the others being Mauger, Briggs, Fundin and Rickardson. Nielsen wasn’t as naturally gifted as say Penhall, just as Mauger wasn’t as say Collins, but when you look achievements…there’s no question he is up there with the very,very best.

I think if GPs had been in place in Nielsen’s era he would be regarded as THE greatest, however as it was I think he missed out on too many titles due to one bad ride (or lost run-offs) to be regarded as number one. However, I’d rank him above Olsen, who I’d put in the next category of riders – along with the likes of Gundersen, Penhall, PC x2, Ronnie Moore, Jason Crump - riders who are all time greats, but wouldn’t be, IMHO, considered as candidates for the all time number 1 spot.

 

Somewhat strangely, I think Nielsen would have won MORE world titles than he did if Gundersen had not been injured – he seemed to lose some edge after that, whereas his performance in the 89 World Final was absolutely immense. I would disagree with Rob that Nielsen had overcome the edge Gundersen had over him – I think head to head in the finals 86-89 Gundersen had a 4-2 advantage- but despite that there is no question that Nielsen was best in the world in that period.

 

Sidney – I think possibly the reason you don’t rank Nielsen as highly as Penhall/Lee was they peaked earlier in their careers– so when Penhall/Lee were at their peak (or even Carter/Sigalos) Nielsen was not. However none of those riders achieved the sustained excellence that Nielsen did, and which I believe is the true measure of an alltime great. There was a debate in the backtrack forum about best foreign rider of the 80s and I chose Penhall – however, I’ve changed my mind on that, and given Nielsen’s additional achievements in the 90s, I think he’s unquestionably the greatest of that era.

 

Back on the topic of great rivalries – there was evidently a great deal of bitterness between the Collins brothers (some at least) and Kenny Carter. In his auto-biography, Alan Carter recalls being at a speedway meeting a few years after Kenny’s demise and making a comment along the lines of “Our Kenny sure could blow them away on the racetrack”, to which Neil Collins replied “Yeah, and then he blew himself away!” Ouch!

Great post great read and i think your points are all good really.The interesting point for me what you said was the Erik point, he never did quite have the measure of Erik and in big meetings i fancied Erik everytime.But i have to concede that Nielsen,s record longevity is very impressive and have realised that after his career had finished.He wouldnt be in my top six of all time he would probably be in the second group.Thats all about your own feelings really my top 6] would be 1./Briggs,2/Mauger 3./Fundin.4./Craven 5/Olsen 6./Richardsson Nielsen for me would be in the next 6.

[The White Knight]

Great post great read and i think your points are all good really.The interesting point for me what you said was the Erik point, he never did quite have the measure of Erik and in big meetings i fancied Erik everytime.But i have to concede that Nielsen,s record longevity is very impressive and have realised that after his career had finished.He wouldnt be in my top six of all time he would probably be in the second group.Thats all about your own feelings really my top 6] would be 1./Briggs,2/Mauger 3./Fundin.4./Craven 5/Olsen 6./Richardsson Nielsen for me would be in the next 6.

 

 

Where would you put Freddie Williams then? Genuine question.

Edited November 14, 2011 by The White Knight