Mildenhall 2012

[vog]

2) Brundall was transferred to Rye and then refused by BSPA to double up - that is how Heeps fitted in

 

And here was me thinking that Heeps replaced Nick Laurence...while, if memory serves, one of the Baseby brothers replaced Brundle. Lets face it, Brundle should have been allowed to double up, and Mildenhall would have replaced Laurence with Heeps. The whole thing stunk.

[norwichkev]

So when Chris Louis says the BSPA want him to pay twice what every other club is paying, what he really means is that the BSPA want him to catch up on last years fees (which everyone else, except him, has already paid) as well as this year's (which again everyone else has to pay).

 

In actual fact that would mean Mildenhall are paying LESS than everyone else since they've had a 12-month interest free loan on their fees.

 

If the small clubs like Buxton, and those with low NL crowds due to being a secondary team (Scunthorpe, Belle Vue, Rye House, King's Lynn) can pay their fees on time, why can't a stand-alone club with big crowds like Mildenhall do the same?

As above, listen to the radio link - doesn't appear to dispute is owed, but no repayment term appears to have been in place and now a demand for a lump sum. Secondly, money is virtually free ( cash flow is the bigger problem in any business ) - look at the interest rates. I have no knowledge but would suspect that with sorting out issues from the previous promotion etc there was a good reason why the fees were not demanded at the time - ask the BSPA the question.

 

Of course there is an option, scrap the academy or even close a track - great post, well thought through. Another positive step forward in developing British riders!

 

Kev

 

And here was me thinking that Heeps replaced Nick Laurence...while, if memory serves, one of the Baseby brothers replaced Brundle. Lets face it, Brundle should have been allowed to double up, and Mildenhall would have replaced Laurence with Heeps. The whole thing stunk.

I think you've partly answered your own quetion Vog - but who sanctioned it? As most of us from Mildy have said from Day 1 - Cameron either is, or isn't eligible end of story. Have heard a few comments about riders not coming through at Mildy - your club had the opportunity to sign them all, any thoughts as to why?

 

Kev

[Halifaxtiger]

And here was me thinking that Heeps replaced Nick Laurence...while, if memory serves, one of the Baseby brothers replaced Brundle. Lets face it, Brundle should have been allowed to double up, and Mildenhall would have replaced Laurence with Heeps. The whole thing stunk.

 

I agree..........but I don't recall your promotion (or any other, for that matter) doing anything about it. I'd say that is for one (or both) of the following reasons: they have either benefitted themselves from similar dealings, or they are fearful of what would happen if they did ask too many questions.

 

While it is very difficult to argue with any of the posts relating to youth development, I would personally prefer to have procedures in place (preferably through independent arbitration) to ensure that the BSPA adhere to their own rule book first. Otherwise, all of the efforts made to ensure the production of our own assets will be caught up in the same corrupt backhander culture that is rife in British Speedway.

[vog]

I think you've partly answered your own quetion Vog - but who sanctioned it? As most of us from Mildy have said from Day 1 - Cameron either is, or isn't eligible end of story. Have heard a few comments about riders not coming through at Mildy - your club had the opportunity to sign them all, any thoughts as to why?

 

Kev

 

Riders coming through at Mildy? No idea. My gripe lies with whoever let Heeps ride. At the end of the day, had he been entitled to ride under the rules, he would have been in from day 1, Mildenhall made no secret of the fact they wanted him. Instead, midway through the season the paperwork was suddenly finished. No idea what paperwork, as no-one would say. You can only ride in the NL if you are British or hold a British Passport. Cameron wouldn't be able to claim citizenship through his parents until he was 16. Until someone comes up with an answer that isn't "It must be fine because it happened" I will continue to hold a gripe against the BSPA and Mildenhall promotion.

 

As for other riders at Mildenhall, all credit to them. You had a couple of lads who upped their averages considerably, and others who pulled out performances when it mattered. However, it won't change the fact that I have an intense dislike for your promotion after seeing the way visiting riders were treated on my trips to Mildenhall. The promotion could have drawn a line under everything after our first meeting, but they stoked the fires, continued to play up them having no idea how Lambert could ride, continued to stoke the fire of hatred under him, and look what happened. Messers Lee and Louis should be ashamed of themselves, but we all know that will never happen.

 

Apologies for going off topic, so to bring it back on topic, Louis is complaining about money that they always knew they owed. Stuff him. Pay the money that you knew you were going to have to and stop whinging. Paying double because you owe a year seems about right. Idiot.

[Halifaxtiger]

Riders coming through at Mildy? No idea. My gripe lies with whoever let Heeps ride. At the end of the day, had he been entitled to ride under the rules, he would have been in from day 1, Mildenhall made no secret of the fact they wanted him. Instead, midway through the season the paperwork was suddenly finished. No idea what paperwork, as no-one would say. You can only ride in the NL if you are British or hold a British Passport. Cameron wouldn't be able to claim citizenship through his parents until he was 16. Until someone comes up with an answer that isn't "It must be fine because it happened" I will continue to hold a gripe against the BSPA and Mildenhall promotion.

 

As for other riders at Mildenhall, all credit to them. You had a couple of lads who upped their averages considerably, and others who pulled out performances when it mattered. However, it won't change the fact that I have an intense dislike for your promotion after seeing the way visiting riders were treated on my trips to Mildenhall. The promotion could have drawn a line under everything after our first meeting, but they stoked the fires, continued to play up them having no idea how Lambert could ride, continued to stoke the fire of hatred under him, and look what happened. Messers Lee and Louis should be ashamed of themselves, but we all know that will never happen.

 

Apologies for going off topic, so to bring it back on topic, Louis is complaining about money that they always knew they owed. Stuff him. Pay the money that you knew you were going to have to and stop whinging. Paying double because you owe a year seems about right. Idiot.

 

Thing is your last view is tainted by your opinion of the Mildenhall promotion.

 

I too have an issue with Heeps being allowed to ride in the NL (and, indeed, the fact that he is a 3.00 average in the PL this season) but that is merely an example of the problem - the problem itself being the corrupt culture of backhanded favours that pervades the sport which allows decisions to be made that are directly contrary to the rules and regulations that the BSPA themselves write.

 

All that happened was Brundle was not allowed to double up (although his average clearly stated that he could) and, as compensation, Mildenhall got Heeps. As it happened, it worked very nicely for them as they were clearly a much stronger side with Heeps & Baseby than they were with Brundle & Laurence.

 

I don't blame Mildenhall for that as they just took advantage of a situation that was not of their making. They are not the first and they won't be the last to do so.

 

In this situation, I blame whoever sanctioned the decision itself and the remaining NL clubs for failing to ensure that the relevant legislation was complied with and passively accepting that Heeps could ride. As I say, though, this is just an example and the root issue lies with the fact that there is no independent scrutiny of BSPA decisions in relation to their own rulebook.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[vog]

In this situation, I blame whoever sanctioned the decision itself and the remaining NL clubs for failing to ensure that the relevant legislation was complied with and passively accepting that Heeps could ride. As I say, though, this is just an example and the root issue lies with the fact that there is no independent scrutiny of BSPA decisions in relation to their own rulebook.

 

Unfortunately, we say this every season. And every season we are left saying that something needs to be done. It never is, and as fans we are expected to just accept that they make the decisions, and we should be thankful. The amount of promoters whose responses are either "If you think you could do better, then do it yourself" or "You should just be thankful that there is speedway" depresses me. In an ideal world, we would have a governing body that doesn't change rules on a whim, and answers to an independent body. Until then, we will continue to be a joke in the eyes of many.

[norwichkev]

Riders coming through at Mildy? No idea. My gripe lies with whoever let Heeps ride. At the end of the day, had he been entitled to ride under the rules, he would have been in from day 1, Mildenhall made no secret of the fact they wanted him. Instead, midway through the season the paperwork was suddenly finished. No idea what paperwork, as no-one would say. You can only ride in the NL if you are British or hold a British Passport. Cameron wouldn't be able to claim citizenship through his parents until he was 16. Until someone comes up with an answer that isn't "It must be fine because it happened" I will continue to hold a gripe against the BSPA and Mildenhall promotion.

 

As for other riders at Mildenhall, all credit to them. You had a couple of lads who upped their averages considerably, and others who pulled out performances when it mattered. However, it won't change the fact that I have an intense dislike for your promotion after seeing the way visiting riders were treated on my trips to Mildenhall. The promotion could have drawn a line under everything after our first meeting, but they stoked the fires, continued to play up them having no idea how Lambert could ride, continued to stoke the fire of hatred under him, and look what happened. Messers Lee and Louis should be ashamed of themselves, but we all know that will never happen.

 

Apologies for going off topic, so to bring it back on topic, Louis is complaining about money that they always knew they owed. Stuff him. Pay the money that you knew you were going to have to and stop whinging. Paying double because you owe a year seems about right. Idiot.

Not sure where you are going with this, as I see it Money agreed owed and there doesn't appear to be any dispute nor complaint - but not tied in to a payment date but then a demand for instant payment not sure any business could operate cash flow like that. I would assume that the figure is the same for all clubs? if so can be no compliants on that score.

 

As for visiting riders etc as far as I know they are always well treated - most even respect and do not abuse the facilities or of course that would be plastered everywhere as bad press. How were the Stoke riders badly treated? When the threat of trouble kicked off one of the promoters took some of the Stoke riders out of the way for protection.

 

After the fiery meeting in which Lambert was the panto villain and tempers got inflamed on both sides then they got on with it. The Promoters then did what they should do - promote the meeting - and I cannot recall any problems at all can you?. As for not knowing what Lambert could do? get out of it he is absolute quality around West Row you cannot seriously believe that the likes of Michael Lee are not aware of that.

 

Kev

 

Unfortunately, we say this every season. And every season we are left saying that something needs to be done. It never is, and as fans we are expected to just accept that they make the decisions, and we should be thankful. The amount of promoters whose responses are either "If you think you could do better, then do it yourself" or "You should just be thankful that there is speedway" depresses me. In an ideal world, we would have a governing body that doesn't change rules on a whim, and answers to an independent body. Until then, we will continue to be a joke in the eyes of many.

On this we agree, but can't see it happening as money is involved.

 

Maybe if we can get the Academy up and running others can join in year 2 and we can finally get enough British riders up to NL standard. Interesting on the radio article Chris Louis talking about lads upwards from 12 on smaller bikes that would appear to be supplied by the Academy - that to me is a ground breaking move forwards.

 

Kev

Edited December 17, 2011 by norwichkev

[2ndbendpostie]

Classic case of no such thing as bad publicity, and a great example of promotors promoting, newspaper inches, radio time and forum discussion, well done Chris Louis for getting Mildenhall Speedway into peoples thoughts, also great to see Lewis Blackbird will be back at West Row next year.

 

Or am I just an old cynic ?

 

 

 

Edited for spelling error.

Edited December 17, 2011 by 2ndbendpostie

[John Leslie]

I'm not sure all this "we want to run an academy" is relevant.

 

I'm sure Buxton and Scunthorpe would like to run a bigger academy, much better than they already provide. However it seems Buxton and Scunthorpe pay their fees and obligations first and then run their academy's with anything that's left in the pot.

 

Why should Buxton/Scunthorpe and all the other teams suffer by having to subsidise Mildenhall's fees?

 

I'd like to buy a Rolls Royce....boost the British car industry. So should the government waive my road tax? Should all other motorists pay a bit to subsidise my purchase? I'll pay them back next year....or maybe next year I'll whinge again, and want to push it back to the following year, even though I've got a nicer car than everyone else.

Edited December 17, 2011 by John Leslie

[norwichkev]

I'm not sure all this "we want to run an academy" is relevant.

 

I'm sure Buxton and Scunthorpe would like to run a bigger academy, much better than they already provide. However it seems Buxton and Scunthorpe pay their fees and obligations first and then run their academy's with anything that's left in the pot.

 

Why should Buxton/Scunthorpe and all the other teams suffer by having to subsidise Mildenhall's fees?

 

I'd like to buy a Rolls Royce....boost the British car industry. So should the government waive my road tax? Should all other motorists pay a bit to subsidise my purchase? I'll pay them back next year....or maybe next year I'll whinge again, and want to push it back to the following year, even though I've got a nicer car than everyone else.

 

Go back to my first post - think British riders and forget tribalism.

 

You obviously do not care which is your prerogative, but let me reply :

 

Your first point on Acadamies is totally irrelevant - was part of the Mildenhall mission statement from day 1

 

1) Rolls Royce is not British owned

2) You drive any car and unless tax exempt then you pay road tax

3) Mildenhall agree that the fee is due but no payment terms were set - why should any other team pay? It appears that from nowhere there is a request for the fee to be paid immediately. But you make a very good point, if you cannot purchase your Rolls Royce outright then you pay back over a number of years - I think you are getting the hang of it now!

4) Fees were set by BSPA so how does that affect any other team? Show me the part that remotely suggests other teams have to subsidise - of course you cannot because none exists.

4) Buxton have an academy? share with us all. Last time Jane posted there was difficulty in attracting riders for a second half ( not a criticism in any way on Buxton ).

 

Well done you on your well thought out post - the future would surely be safe in your hands.

 

Try the positive approach for a change, if the BSPA support Scunny ( who have done an excellent job over many years in youth development - isn't it about time they had support from the sport? ), Buxton, Mildenhall et al in bringing yougsters into the sport then just maybe we can attract more British youngsters to take up the sport - surely that is where the future should lie.

 

Malcolm brings some excellent thoughts on his personal vision, however, the highest number of unemployed for 17 years and the amount of high profile companies going bust ( and the likes of Comet being sold for £2 ) make it exceptionally unlikely to attract any corporate sponsorship in the foreseeable future. So, does the sport do nothing and hope it's still around in a couple of years.

 

The BSPA now have an excellent opportunity to make the first step to bring the sport forward with people ( ex riders all ) who care about Speedway AND young Brits - everything starts somewhere why not embrace it.

 

Kev

Edited December 17, 2011 by norwichkev

[montie]

Have i got this right

The promotion owe a payment to the BSPA and are using the "development card" to try and get out of the payment??or have i got the wrong end of the stick??

[Badge]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but Joe Jacobs who is wintering in Aus with Cameron Heeps, has just tweeted that he has broken his ankle, just thought you might like to know!!!

 

 

Get well soon Jojo

Edited December 17, 2011 by Badge

[villiers210]

Have i got this right

The promotion owe a payment to the BSPA and are using the "development card" to try and get out of the payment??or have i got the wrong end of the stick??

No, I think you got it just about spot on Montie.

 

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but Joe Jacobs who is wintering in Aus with Cameron Heeps, has just tweeted that he has broken his ankle, just thought you might like to know!!!

 

 

Get well soon Jojo

Hope Joe makes a quick recovery - of all the riders in the league that are not in the team I support, hes a real favourite of mine. Get well soon mate.

[June]

Kev. You do seem to have changed from last year. All you seemed to want then was riders who could put bums on seats. being a ^ stand alone club " Suddenly your talk is all of bringing on the british youngsters, your talkng more of my language now!......you converted?

[John Leslie]

Have i got this right

The promotion owe a payment to the BSPA and are using the "development card" to try and get out of the payment??or have i got the wrong end of the stick??

You seem to have got it spot on.

 

But don't try and explain it to the poster above you. He'll never grasp it

[villiers210]

I also find it very interesting that some are making a comaprison with Buxton. Well how about this comparison? If a tiny club like Buxton can afford to pay its way in the N.L. - what's the problem at Mildenhall? I cannot think of any other sport where a team is allowed to participate without paying it's dues. The rules are aimple - if you dont want to pay, then you shouldn't expect to play.

[John Leslie]

1) Rolls Royce is not British owned

Cameron Heeps isn't British.....Now do you get the comparison with helping "British" industry?

2) You drive any car and unless tax exempt then you pay road tax

similarly, you join the BSPA leagues, you pay the BSPA fees

3) Mildenhall agree that the fee is due but no payment terms were set

Mildenhall agree they were allowed to defer the fee. Defer means to put back temporarily, Doesn't mean "not pay, and still be arguing about not paying when the following year's fees come round"

why should any other team pay?

Because it costs money to administer the sport and all teams share the cost equally within their league. Sadly one team wants to welsh on their share

It appears that from nowhere there is a request for the fee to be paid immediately.

fees are always payable immediately, and all teams paid except one, who were given time to pay. Sadly they still haven't paid and are still bellyaching

4) Fees were set by BSPA so how does that affect any other team?

All other teams paid their fees. Only one is bellyaching.

4) Buxton have an academy? share with us all.

I take it you're new to the sport. Have a word with people who've been around more than one year and they'll tell you how Buxton and Scunthorpe have been the prime movers in developing talent at CL/NL level. They've done it on a shoestring without the benefit of the large crowds Mildenhall enjoy, and without dodging their fees.

Edited December 18, 2011 by John Leslie

[norwichkev]

Cameron Heeps isn't British.....Now do you get the comparison with helping "British" industry?

 

similarly, you join the BSPA leagues, you pay the BSPA fees

 

Mildenhall agree they were allowed to defer the fee. Defer means to put back temporarily, Doesn't mean "not pay, and still be arguing about not paying when the following year's fees come round"

 

Because it costs money to administer the sport and all teams share the cost equally within their league. Sadly one team wants to welsh on their share

 

fees are always payable immediately, and all teams paid except one, who were given time to pay. Sadly they still haven't paid and are still bellyaching

 

All other teams paid their fees. Only one is bellyaching.

 

I take it you're new to the sport. Have a word with people who've been around more than one year and they'll tell you how Buxton and Scunthorpe have been the prime movers in developing talent at CL/NL level. They've done it on a shoestring without the benefit of the large crowds Mildenhall enjoy, and without dodging their fees.

Oh dear, oh dear,

 

Take off those blinkers, last one first have been around the sport since early 60's at Norwich.

 

Montie, John Leslie, Villiers - have you got the wrong end of the stick? No, perhaps you simply choose not to understand - it is easy to pick and choose parts of posts eh. Let me try to explain how I understand it:

 

1) Fees are owed, what is in question is repayment terms - if they were payable immediately JL then that would have been stated at the time.

 

2) Academy was part of original plan when Mildenhall were relaunched. Not new.

 

3) JL get real, you mention in last sentence the CURRENT prime movers - is the current set up working? Why doe we still not have enough youngsters coming through the sport.

 

What appears to be in danger is the launch of the academy - end of. Presumably if the funds are diverted to pay on the loan then the academy may not happen.

 

Lets make this simple. Try and forget your club / anti other club views. For the sake of argument take Mildenhall out of the equation:

 

1) Is the current development system working

 

2) Is a British World Champion important? Not a daft question, look at football - some supporters follow club, not country.

 

3) Do you want more Brits coming into the sport - in a structured, focused environment?

 

4) In the absence of Malcolms blue sky vision happening in the current environment would you support a new academy?

 

5) Should the BSPA be part of the support process.

 

6) Keep the current system.

 

Take out the emotion, keep them to simple YES / NO answers.

 

Kev

[Halifaxtiger]

Kev. You do seem to have changed from last year. All you seemed to want then was riders who could put bums on seats. being a ^ stand alone club " Suddenly your talk is all of bringing on the british youngsters, your talkng more of my language now!......you converted?

 

Its a myth that Mildenhall supporters (including Kev) merely want their club to put a side out that attracts fans.

 

In the case of any stand alone club, they have to do that - after all, they do not have the luxury of a PL side subsidising potential losses - and consequently putting out an decent side is a must. However, that does not mean that they do not also view the NL as a training ground for British riders and Mildenhall's plans to have an academy underline their intentions in that direction.

 

It isn't Mildenhall that has a problem in recognising that there must be a compromise between the needs of the double up and stand alone clubs, is it ?

 

Mildenhall agree they were allowed to defer the fee. Defer means to put back temporarily, Doesn't mean "not pay, and still be arguing about not paying when the following year's fees come round"

 

Because it costs money to administer the sport and all teams share the cost equally within their league. Sadly one team wants to welsh on their share

 

fees are always payable immediately, and all teams paid except one, who were given time to pay. Sadly they still haven't paid and are still bellyaching

 

 

As I understand it, Mildenhall are not refusing to pay at all - so 'not paying' and 'welsh' are just not true. What they are asking for is time to pay.

 

Given the economic conditions and the grounds under which they wish to have time (ie the creation of an academy) their position appears to be wholly reasonable.

[norwichkev]

Kev. You do seem to have changed from last year. All you seemed to want then was riders who could put bums on seats. being a ^ stand alone club " Suddenly your talk is all of bringing on the british youngsters, your talkng more of my language now!......you converted?

June,

 

Always a convert and no change in views but always looking at a wider perspective and current circumstances - one analogy is that if you take Scunny as an example why do they use foreign riders in the PL side? Would you go and watch? I suspect yes you would.

 

Money through the gate is vital for any club and hopefully will not only pay the bills but provide investment for the future, change is a gradual process. The forum carping on about young Aussies coming over and keeping young Brits out is short sightedness, where is Jo Jacobs this winter? In Aussie staying with Cameron Heeps family and getting experience Aussie style - not all one way traffic is it.

 

Instead of internal fighting and point scoring would it not be better to pull together? EL clubs with NO British riders, is that right and "in the best interests of Speedway"

 

Kev