Halifaxtiger Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 A couple of things. One, Heeps is an Aussie..: and for a long time Speedway's lower divisions have allowed riders from the 'Commonwealth' to compete as if British nationals. In that sense I dispute entirely the notion that Cameron was 'foreign' And secondly, there have been a very large number of riders who have competed in the CL/NL under such terms. Andrew Bargh and young Alex Cunningham are two Kiwis as examples. Byron Bekker a South African who I'm not sure had the patriality that others had..? There was even an Aussie from a Latvian background called Karlis Ezagalis (excuse the likely spelling error!). So why this concentration on rules being broken over Heeps..? I can't personally see that any were... Also I'm sure young English riders benefit from riding against and/or with young Aussie talent like Heeps.. Thing is Derek is that the regulations on eligibility for riders in the NL were changed in 2011, excluding many Australians. Essentially, you had to have a British passport or patriality, and only three of the previous seasons riders did - Kurtz, Herne & Branford. Mickey Dyer, for example, who had ridden in 2010, was no longer able to. I think Bekker is a British passport holder, so he's OK. The question is, then, whether Heeps had patriality or was a British passport holder at the point that he was cleared to ride. Kev's honest, fair and pragmatic comment above sums the situation up rather succinctly. As to your final point, I agree completely. Taking everything into account, I regard it as a false economy to exclude such riders (within reason, say 1 per team) from the NL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 This really is an interesting thread and Halifax Tiger is to be commended to try and get to the bottom of the "Heeps Affair" and I think that Jayne's response achieves that. I think that this is a basic problem affecting the sport with riders who are qualified to ride in our League in terms of patriality but who have gained considerable experience elsewhere in the world effectively distorting the system we put in place through points limits and averages to ensure a level playing field. All such riders previous experience should be assessed in advance of their declaration and an appropriate assessed average given to them. This would prevent those well skilled from taking seven rides every week from the reserve berth to the total disadvantage to the teams that meet them whilst they are at reserve. What is the point of going to such trouble to achieve a level playing field and then allowing such distortion to take place. I have made these comments before many times earning last season the ire of Chris Louis but any remarks I may have made last year were not specifically at Cameron Heeps but the warped system. It was just as bad when Todd Kurtz (very effectively used to beat Mildenhall in 2009 one Sunday), Tai Woffinden, Jay Herne et all were all deployed in this way. I believe that steps may be taken to improve this situation and I certainly hope that this is the case. Surely we all believe in fair play then the rules should support this. They must in fact do so because we would all use the distortion as it currently stands given the opportunity. Malcolm Vasey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 This really is an interesting thread and Halifax Tiger is to be commended to try and get to the bottom of the "Heeps Affair" and I think that Jayne's response achieves that. I think that this is a basic problem affecting the sport with riders who are qualified to ride in our League in terms of patriality but who have gained considerable experience elsewhere in the world effectively distorting the system we put in place through points limits and averages to ensure a level playing field. All such riders previous experience should be assessed in advance of their declaration and an appropriate assessed average given to them. This would prevent those well skilled from taking seven rides every week from the reserve berth to the total disadvantage to the teams that meet them whilst they are at reserve. What is the point of going to such trouble to achieve a level playing field and then allowing such distortion to take place. I have made these comments before many times earning last season the ire of Chris Louis but any remarks I may have made last year were not specifically at Cameron Heeps but the warped system. It was just as bad when Todd Kurtz (very effectively used to beat Mildenhall in 2009 one Sunday), Tai Woffinden, Jay Herne et all were all deployed in this way. I believe that steps may be taken to improve this situation and I certainly hope that this is the case. Surely we all believe in fair play then the rules should support this. They must in fact do so because we would all use the distortion as it currently stands given the opportunity. Malcolm Vasey Malcolm - for once I agree with your sentiments, and I for one am glad that there was the like of yourself who has made you views known, irrespective of who it upsets. What bothers me as well, is that you can bet your life that when people start using terms like "common sense has to prevail when applying the rules" it usually means that someone is about to bend them to their limits for the benefit of somebody. I have no axe to grind whatsoever with Mildenhall - tell me which club wouldn't have done the same if they were allowed to? But I do have an axe to grind with the people who apply the rules then turn a blind eye because its in someones best interest to do so. Was the NL the better for having Cameron Heeps riding in it last year? Undoubtedly it was, and I was particularly impressed with the youngster, but that is not the issue. The issue is the rules being applied equally and fairly to all who take part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I have made these comments before many times earning last season the ire of Chris Louis but any remarks I may have made last year were not specifically at Cameron Heeps but the warped system. It was just as bad when Todd Kurtz (very effectively used to beat Mildenhall in 2009 one Sunday), Tai Woffinden, Jay Herne et all were all deployed in this way. Malcolm Vasey Surely not Tai. Both his parents are British.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fentigers79 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Zzzzzz...sorry I dropped off there.... What were we talking about? Oh yeah Mildenhall 2012 Come on you lot let's change the subject it's really boring now, new year new subject please.. My team prediction : 1. Heeps ( sorry had to mention his name please don't take this as a cue to start again) 2. A. Baseby 3. Blackbird 4. Nilsson 5. Jacobs 6. Halsey 7. A 3 pointer ?? Anyone else have a opinion on the 2012 team? Edited January 1, 2012 by fentigers79 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Surely not Tai. Both his parents are British.... And so is Tai - born in Scunthorpe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostylion Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Have Mildenhall tapped Nilsson up now??? Tried to unseat Ben Reade earlier,blackbird from K.L last year,who will they go for next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I knoiw Tai Woffinden is English but he was also never a three point rider with great experience when he arrived. But if you want distorted results Parsloes something you always advocated when Wimbledon were once given a major advantage over the rest of us who am I to argue. Malcolm Vasey Edited January 1, 2012 by Proud Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaza71 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I knoiw Tai Woffinden is English but he was also never a three point rider with great experience when he arrived. But if you want distorted results Parsloes something you always advocated when Wimbledon were once given a major advantage over the rest of us who am I to argue. Malcolm Vasey but tai was kept at reserve by peter morrish when the rules said he should of been in the main part of the team, but hey rules are only rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I knoiw Tai Woffinden is English but he was also never a three point rider with great experience when he arrived. But if you want distorted results Parsloes something you always advocated when Wimbledon were once given a major advantage over the rest of us who am I to argue. Malcolm Vasey Ah, I've missed you having a go at me, Malc!! Happy New Year!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Zzzzzz...sorry I dropped off there.... What were we talking about? Oh yeah Mildenhall 2012 Come on you lot let's change the subject it's really boring now, new year new subject please.. My team prediction : 1. Heeps ( sorry had to mention his name please don't take this as a cue to start again) 2. A. Baseby 3. Blackbird 4. Nilsson 5. Jacobs 6. Halsey 7. A 3 pointer ?? Anyone else have a opinion on the 2012 team? I have an opnion that I have said before - that suggested team is over the 40 points limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Have Mildenhall tapped Nilsson up now??? Tried to unseat Ben Reade earlier,blackbird from K.L last year,who will they go for next! Are we talking Nilsson or Stefan Nielsen who rode for Scunny last year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendpostie Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 So many pages on the same arguents go on, so again I ask in all seriousness why should anyones birthplace or thier parents birthplace etc etc, have any effect on whether they can ride speedway in Great Britain ?. It would stop all this petty arguing etc. If the British kids were good enough, they would keep the "foreign" riders out anyway, and many of them are,and if you spoke to the 6 British lads at Mildenhall last year, I'm sure they would all say they learnt from having Cameron there. We mus'nt kid the young ones who are not good enough by giving them places they dont deserve just because they happen to have a British Passport. I have a British Passport but if the lads I work with who were not born here want promotion, then my being British wont stop them getting it over me, if they do the job better than I can.Sadly it's called the real world, as my dad always told me, "if you dont help yourself no other bugger will". Malcolm mentioned Tai in a post earlier, it was a pleasure to see the lad at that age showing the olduns how to do it, never heard me moaning about it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 So many pages on the same arguents go on, so again I ask in all seriousness why should anyones birthplace or thier parents birthplace etc etc, have any effect on whether they can ride speedway in Great Britain ?. It would stop all this petty arguing etc. If the British kids were good enough, they would keep the "foreign" riders out anyway, and many of them are,and if you spoke to the 6 British lads at Mildenhall last year, I'm sure they would all say they learnt from having Cameron there. We mus'nt kid the young ones who are not good enough by giving them places they dont deserve just because they happen to have a British Passport. I have a British Passport but if the lads I work with who were not born here want promotion, then my being British wont stop them getting it over me, if they do the job better than I can.Sadly it's called the real world, as my dad always told me, "if you dont help yourself no other bugger will". Malcolm mentioned Tai in a post earlier, it was a pleasure to see the lad at that age showing the olduns how to do it, never heard me moaning about it then. It matters where they are born as the league was set up to help BRITSH riders develope. Tai could ride in the league because he is British. Not that hard to understand really. Let young Swedes, Danes etc learn in their own countries then come over here to race when they are ready. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendpostie Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 It matters where they are born as the league was set up to help BRITSH riders develope. Tai could ride in the league because he is British. Not that hard to understand really. Let young Swedes, Danes etc learn in their own countries then come over here to race when they are ready. How bloody selfish some Brits are. And why is it legal to do so, employers cannott refuse to employ somebody just because they are not British, some people need to check its 2012 and not the good ol days of the colomial British Empire anymore. That being said, most that come over here are ready to race,young Cameron being the current example. If British Speedway is in such a good position to pick and choose who rides here, how come the current world champion chooses not to ride in this country. Whats the phrase, cutting your nose off to spite your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 How bloody selfish some Brits are. And why is it legal to do so, employers cannott refuse to employ somebody just because they are not British, some people need to check its 2012 and not the good ol days of the colomial British Empire anymore. That being said, most that come over here are ready to race,young Cameron being the current example. If British Speedway is in such a good position to pick and choose who rides here, how come the current world champion chooses not to ride in this country. Whats the phrase, cutting your nose off to spite your face. Someone with a bit of knowledge, Malcom Vasey or Jayne probably, explained it last winter. Riders requiring a work permit are not allowed to compete in a semi-professional league. At the end of the day what is wrong with looking after our own for a change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendpostie Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Someone with a bit of knowledge, Malcom Vasey or Jayne probably, explained it last winter. Riders requiring a work permit are not allowed to compete in a semi-professional league. At the end of the day what is wrong with looking after our own for a change? Semi proffesional league but one that charges the public a proffesional price !, the public is the reason that speedway should be allowing the best riders available to be on view, never sure what semi proffesional means, if you can earn a living at doing whatever you are doing then you a proffesional, if you have to have a full time job to subsidise it, then you are an amateur, if its an amateur league then charge amateur prices. As for looking after our own, well firstly anyone who gets on a speedway bike has got more balls than I have got, but if they aint better than the bloke who has travelled thousands of miles around the world to better himself than as far as I am concerned they need to practice harder to stake thier claim for a team place or find another sport they are better at. You, I get the impression are a die hard speedway man, thats fine and good luck to you, but die hard speedway fans are few and far between nowadays, fickle ba5tards like me are much more common, with good entertainment we will attend paying our £500.00 a year per couple, if its nothing but devloment riders, then that will not satisfy us, as there is so many other forms of entertainment out there now. Stating the obvious look at the difference between Mildenhalls crowds when unsuccessfull to those of last season when Cameron, Lewis, Joe, Jack, Aron, Mark and Danny rode so excitingly and successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I know some Mildenhall supporters hate the idea of being Ipswich' "little brother" or "feeder" club, but there's no doubt that the tie in with them brought an awful lot of Ipswich supporters to west row on Sunday afternoons to swell the attendance. Most of them probably taking a look at Heeps who they knew would be an Ipswich rider this year. I saw Heeps twice this season, and i have to say he was box office on both occasions. Very surprised that one or two Mildenhall supporters would rather see a team without him in it this year! Baffled actually as its surely all about being entertained and this kid provides it in bucket loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Semi proffesional league but one that charges the public a proffesional price !, the public is the reason that speedway should be allowing the best riders available to be on view, never sure what semi proffesional means, if you can earn a living at doing whatever you are doing then you a proffesional, if you have to have a full time job to subsidise it, then you are an amateur, if its an amateur league then charge amateur prices. As for looking after our own, well firstly anyone who gets on a speedway bike has got more balls than I have got, but if they aint better than the bloke who has travelled thousands of miles around the world to better himself than as far as I am concerned they need to practice harder to stake thier claim for a team place or find another sport they are better at. You, I get the impression are a die hard speedway man, thats fine and good luck to you, but die hard speedway fans are few and far between nowadays, fickle ba5tards like me are much more common, with good entertainment we will attend paying our £500.00 a year per couple, if its nothing but devloment riders, then that will not satisfy us, as there is so many other forms of entertainment out there now. Stating the obvious look at the difference between Mildenhalls crowds when unsuccessfull to those of last season when Cameron, Lewis, Joe, Jack, Aron, Mark and Danny rode so excitingly and successfully. So you found the racing entertaining last season and were quite happy to pay to see it but want some unknown Polecat or Scandie to be included to add to the value? I've allways found the racing to be good at Mildenhall in the 3rd division and don't see how binging in random foriegners would improve it. Maybe if they went Elite League and brought in some top riders it would make the racing better but then you would be paying 16/17 quid to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I've allways found the racing to be good at Mildenhall in the 3rd division and don't see how binging in random foriegners would improve it. Cameron Heeps improved it no question. He also put extra bums on seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.