Damon Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Fair looking team, although by my reckoning over the 40 points limit even with a 3 pointer as A.N. Other yeah around 40 but just over, perhaps Heeps average will be looked at and reduced, that would be fair..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) yeah around 40 but just over, perhaps Heeps average will be looked at and reduced, that would be fair..... I will have to ask the obvious, but how can Cameron's 2011 9.18 (BSPA web site) GS average be reduced? After all he was an illegal, in my opinion only, rider in the 2011 NL as he is 100% Australian and from my understanding of the NL rules last year should not have been allowed in the NL in the first place as no other team used a 100% Aussie......Newport's & Buxton's were 100% legal! Just curious Edited December 29, 2011 by berniev123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Cameron Heaps qualified because of British ancestry. I think either his mother or father was born in Britain or one of his grandparents were. Anyone knows exactly how Cameron qualified? Mildenhall speedway in 2011 would have been worse off without Cameron Heaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Cameron Heaps qualified because of British ancestry. I think either his mother or father was born in Britain or one of his grandparents were. Anyone knows exactly how Cameron qualified? Mildenhall speedway in 2011 would have been worse off without Cameron Heaps! I think it's time everyone moved on from Camerons qualification last season. At the end of the day the BSPA approved him to ride in the NL for the Fen Tigers. The rights or wrongs of that decision don't really matter now, as we know rules change every minute in speedway. It will be interesting to see if the Fen Tigers use Cam in 2012, personally I would let him concentrate on Premier League and for the Fen Tigers to move on. Anyway whatever happens I wish the Fen Tigers all the best for next season. Nikko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 At the end of the day the BSPA approved Cameron Heaps inclusion in the Mildenhall line up and the 2011 season has came and is now gone! I hope Cameron Heaps is a Mildenhall rider next season cause his exciting riding style adds to what normally is terrific entertainment at West Row when theres a fen Tigers home meeting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think it's time everyone moved on from Camerons qualification last season. At the end of the day the BSPA approved him to ride in the NL for the Fen Tigers. The rights or wrongs of that decision don't really matter now, as we know rules change every minute in speedway. It will be interesting to see if the Fen Tigers use Cam in 2012, personally I would let him concentrate on Premier League and for the Fen Tigers to move on. Anyway whatever happens I wish the Fen Tigers all the best for next season. Nikko I agree with you 100% but was just curious as I have never got to grips with this thorny problem last season, mind he was brilliant when I saw him and should really be 3rd Heat Leader at Ipswich by June 2012 I would have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I will have to ask the obvious, but how can Cameron's 2011 9.18 (BSPA web site) GS average be reduced? After all he was an illegal, in my opinion only, rider in the 2011 NL as he is 100% Australian and from my understanding of the NL rules last year should not have been allowed in the NL in the first place as no other team used a 100% Aussie......Newport's & Buxton's were 100% legal! Just curious i wasnt serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 i wasnt serious. Thanks for the honesty, but he would be a real steal on 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 According to todays Newmarket Journal, team should be announced in the next couple of weeks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think it's time everyone moved on from Camerons qualification last season. At the end of the day the BSPA approved him to ride in the NL for the Fen Tigers. The rights or wrongs of that decision don't really matter now, as we know rules change every minute in speedway. It will be interesting to see if the Fen Tigers use Cam in 2012, personally I would let him concentrate on Premier League and for the Fen Tigers to move on. Anyway whatever happens I wish the Fen Tigers all the best for next season. Nikko I think the rights & wrongs matter enormously - possibly as much as any other issue facing British Speedway today, because they represent the corruption that lies at the heart of our sport. No-one (including three NL team managers I asked) knows how Heeps was able to ride when it would be a very simple matter to publish precisely how that was the case. The fact that permission for him to ride was refused point blank and then changed when Brundle was not permitted to double up - despite the fact that Mildenhall had been assured that he could - says it all. Lets not forget that had he passed Richie Worrall on the last bend at Mildenhall the Fen Tigers would have won the NL, with a rider who was not eligible to compete in the NL being directly responsible. While Heeps is just an example of the appalling culture that exists in British Speedway, he is particularly bad one and its little wonder with decsions of that nature that the BSPA are totally against independent adjudication. We either want a sport that adheres to its own rules and regulations or we don't. Personally, the BSPA saying that a rider could compete isn't enough for me, and I am surprised its enough for anyone. No-one doubts that Heeps was a huge asset to the NL as a whole, but that's not the point. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I know what your saying HalifaxTiger my point is that the BSPA change the rules so often there is no point now still discussing what happend last season mate. As we all know they can change rules any time they want too, or it suits certain promotions. We have discussed the Brundle/Heeps situation before and we agree about what went on. I totally want an independent body in charge of the our sport, you know my views on the BSPA and it's interesting what Chris Louis has said in the speedway star this week and last that he may get in trouble for speaking out against them as it's fair to say Chris has been known in the past to totally defend the BSPA 100% on certain points. Of course we all want a sport that adheres to it's own rules but let's be honest when did that last happen? There's a fundamental problem with the setup of the sport in the UK but to use a seasonal expression "you will never get turkeys voting for Christmas" and while the promotors are also the rule makers things will get changed/amended or agreed on a case by case basis pre-season post season even during a season. I hate the phase but I think the BSPA use "in the interest of the sport". Sad times my friend just look at the lack of British young talent coming into the NL but that's a whole separate topic! Also let's hope the Fen Tigers give a first National League season opportunity to a young british rider at No 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I know what your saying HalifaxTiger my point is that the BSPA change the rules so often there is no point now still discussing what happend last season mate. As we all know they can change rules any time they want too, or it suits certain promotions. We have discussed the Brundle/Heeps situation before and we agree about what went on. I totally want an independent body in charge of the our sport, you know my views on the BSPA and it's interesting what Chris Louis has said in the speedway star this week and last that he may get in trouble for speaking out against them as it's fair to say Chris has been known in the past to totally defend the BSPA 100% on certain points. Of course we all want a sport that adheres to it's own rules but let's be honest when did that last happen? There's a fundamental problem with the setup of the sport in the UK but to use a seasonal expression "you will never get turkeys voting for Christmas" and while the promotors are also the rule makers things will get changed/amended or agreed on a case by case basis pre-season post season even during a season. I hate the phase but I think the BSPA use "in the interest of the sport". Sad times my friend just look at the lack of British young talent coming into the NL but that's a whole separate topic! Thing is they didn't change the rules they just ignored them to suit the needs of a couple of teams. Not an everyday occurrence, but not totally exceptional one either. Just because we have never had speedway adhering to its own rules in the past doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen in the future. Its not in the interests of the sport, its in the interests of certain individuals within the sport and its at the cost of its own integrity. Chris Louis comments are typical of a member of the BSPA: critical when a decision goes against his team, aquiescent at every other time. You're right on one thing, and that is that my views are pi**ing in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichkev Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thing is they didn't change the rules they just ignored them to suit the needs of a couple of teams. Not an everyday occurrence, but not totally exceptional one either. Just because we have never had speedway adhering to its own rules in the past doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen in the future. Its not in the interests of the sport, its in the interests of certain individuals within the sport and its at the cost of its own integrity. Chris Louis comments are typical of a member of the BSPA: critical when a decision goes against his team, aquiescent at every other time. You're right on one thing, and that is that my views are pi**ing in the wind. Totally agree with Nikko's solution, but can't see that happening - just be grateful we are not EL with the shenanigans that appear to go on there on a far more regular basis. But put a balance on it, judging by previous threads Mildenhall are not the first who appear ( and we do not know the total siuation regarding Camo ) to benefit from a decision that appears debateable. On the flip side, Mildenhall are not the only side who benefitted it would appear that gates were up at a number of tracks where he appeared which is additional revenue - although doesn't make it right. The get out always seems to be "within the best interests of the sport", I would suggest within the rules of the sport should be the reason - or IF there are extenuating circumstances then a statement that contains total transparency on the situation. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Totally agree with Nikko's solution, but can't see that happening - just be grateful we are not EL with the shenanigans that appear to go on there on a far more regular basis. But put a balance on it, judging by previous threads Mildenhall are not the first who appear ( and we do not know the total siuation regarding Camo ) to benefit from a decision that appears debateable. On the flip side, Mildenhall are not the only side who benefitted it would appear that gates were up at a number of tracks where he appeared which is additional revenue - although doesn't make it right. The get out always seems to be "within the best interests of the sport", I would suggest within the rules of the sport should be the reason - or IF there are extenuating circumstances then a statement that contains total transparency on the situation. Kev Actually, Kev, the way I see it Mildenhall are actually probably the most blameless party of all. Denied their number one rider against the rules of the sport, they simply insisted on compensation and that's not unreasonable in the circumstances. All the other parties - the promoter that stopped Brundle riding, the person at the BSPA that made the decisions, the other NL clubs who let it happen without a noise - are far more guilty in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Cameron Heaps qualified because of British ancestry. I think either his mother or father was born in Britain or one of his grandparents were. Anyone knows exactly how Cameron qualified? Mildenhall speedway in 2011 would have been worse off without Cameron Heaps! strange. by that logic surely all aussie riders would qualify for british passports as they all come from descendants who were banished to australia from england many years ago as a result of certain misdemeneours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think it's time everyone moved on from Camerons qualification last season. At the end of the day the BSPA approved him to ride in the NL for the Fen Tigers. The rights or wrongs of that decision don't really matter now, as we know rules change every minute in speedway. It will be interesting to see if the Fen Tigers use Cam in 2012, personally I would let him concentrate on Premier League and for the Fen Tigers to move on. Anyway whatever happens I wish the Fen Tigers all the best for next season. Nikko Agree 100% Nikko, time to move on i'd think. Interesting point about using Cameron in 2012. Although he was a great rider for us and a crowd puller last season, I too would consider going without him and maybe looking to line up along the lines of 1. Branford 2. A Baseby 3. Jacobs 4. Nielsen 5. Blackbird 6. Halsey 7. A 3 pointer. Being able to have Danny start at reserve would ensure we had one very powerful reserve all season, which would be a useful weapon when looking at the other sides. PS - The side above is just my opinion and a suggested potential starting seven. A previously suggested seven caused some upset in certain areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think it's time everyone moved on from Camerons qualification last season. At the end of the day the BSPA approved him to ride in the NL for the Fen Tigers. The rights or wrongs of that decision don't really matter now, as we know rules change every minute in speedway. It will be interesting to see if the Fen Tigers use Cam in 2012, personally I would let him concentrate on Premier League and for the Fen Tigers to move on. Anyway whatever happens I wish the Fen Tigers all the best for next season. Nikko I supose the thing is the way he came in was always going to raise an eyebrow or 2 as Branford and Morris didn't seem to have the same 'issues' and Alex Davies did. Lets hope a new controversy raises it's ugly head and this one will become tomorrows chip paper . Maybe they should revert to the old rule where patriality allowed you into the NL on 6 points. It would save all this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I supose the thing is the way he came in was always going to raise an eyebrow or 2 as Branford and Morris didn't seem to have the same 'issues' and Alex Davies did. Lets hope a new controversy raises it's ugly head and this one will become tomorrows chip paper . Maybe they should revert to the old rule where patriality allowed you into the NL on 6 points. It would save all this The thing is, the problem hasn't gone away, nor will it become tomorrows chip paper.The problem has just moved up a league that's all. My understanding is that Cameron starts as Ipwich reserve on a 3 point average in 2012. Deja Vu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendpostie Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Simple answer, all riders from wherever in the world are eligiible, why favour the Brits ?, if they are not better than the foreigners then they should bloody well put the effort in, if Aussie riders are keen enough to travel thousands of miles to further there carreers then bloody good luck to them. Motor racing doesnt penalise foreigners, cricket doesnt, football doesnt, normal everyday working lives doesnt, so why the hell does speedway think its any different. Do we remember riders like Reg Trott and Billy Bales at Norwich Stars, as good a riders as they were ?, no we remember Ove Fundin and Olle Nygren, foreign riders have kept British speedway interesting for years its nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Simple answer, all riders from wherever in the world are eligiible, why favour the Brits ?, if they are not better than the foreigners then they should bloody well put the effort in, if Aussie riders are keen enough to travel thousands of miles to further there carreers then bloody good luck to them. Motor racing doesnt penalise foreigners, cricket doesnt, football doesnt, normal everyday working lives doesnt, so why the hell does speedway think its any different. Do we remember riders like Reg Trott and Billy Bales at Norwich Stars, as good a riders as they were ?, no we remember Ove Fundin and Olle Nygren, foreign riders have kept British speedway interesting for years its nothing new. i don't disagree with your sentiments one bit. However, a level playing ground for all wouldn't go amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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