Speedway Gp In Tatters !

[speedyguy]

I think you will find there are more people go to Speedway in Britain than go to speedway in Sweden and Denmark combined

There are twice as many go to Cardiff GP than the two Swedish Grand Prix's

 

But how do speedway attendances in each country work out pro rata to the population? I bet it's much lower in the UK than in Sweden and Denmark.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

But how do speedway attendances in each country work out pro rata to the population? I bet it's much lower in the UK than in Sweden and Denmark.

Hmm, not too sure... I wouldn't think that Denmark would be any higher for one...

[mickthemuppet]

But how do speedway attendances in each country work out pro rata to the population? I bet it's much lower in the UK than in Sweden and Denmark.

on that basis that make New Zealand the top country pro rata so that does not prove anything does it

[Ghostwalker]

We are about 9.4 million People in Sweden and 5,5 million people in Denmark.

In the UK there are about 62,2 million people so Swedish and Danish Gps have a higher attendance in relation to population then GB/Cardiff.

So basically there is just as many people in the London metropolitan area as in Sweden and Denmark combined.

 

 

Also Swedish Elitserien have an average attendance of 2900 people per meeting.

http://www.aktuellsp...php?id=1&s=2011

 

 

on that basis that make New Zealand the top country pro rata so that does not prove anything does it

 

Surely its easier to fill up a large stadium if you have a larger population.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Ghostwalker

[Humphrey Appleby]

Surely its easier to fill up a large stadium if you have a larger population.

 

It doesn't mean the whole population attends or even likes a particular sport. In New Zealand, rugby union is immensely popular, and even club rugby gets higher attendances than in England, despite that country having a fraction of the population.

 

Speedway is quite localised to specific areas of Britain as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if Sweden has a comparable number of fans. The fact that London has as many people as the whole of Sweden doesn't mean a lot, as most people in the capital aren't interested in speedway as evidenced by the lack of tracks.

 

I'd hazard a guess there are about 25-30K reasonably regular speedway fans in Britain, and maybe the same number again who used to go and/or watch it on television.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

The fact that London has as many people as the whole of Sweden doesn't mean a lot, as most people in the capital aren't interested in speedway as evidenced by the lack of tracks.

 

Well it's a chicken and egg situation isn't it. No tracks at all in London so frankly how can people show an interest in the sport..? Though we've no idea of the number of people from the London area who might watch Speedway on Sky..

In the part of east London I live in many, many people recall the old Custom House and generations of their families attended there.. But of course West Ham Speedway closed nearly 40 years ago now!!

But IF there was an accessible and well-publicised track in the East London area who's to say that such latent interest/support couldn't be realised again..?

[jimmy jimmy]

What is the attendance at Cardiff? 45,000? That is more than most sporting events in the UK. Yes it can be improved, but I cant see it getting to 72,000 sell outs.

 

Would be interested to know what Superbikes and MotoGp attendances are?

[Humphrey Appleby]

Well it's a chicken and egg situation isn't it. No tracks at all in London so frankly how can people show an interest in the sport..?

 

I appreciate this is your cause célèbre and I wouldn't entirely disagree that London probably could support a track at some level if a stable home could be found. However, the fact that several potential stadiums in the Greater London area aren't chasing after speedway is surely indicative of the level of interest. In addition, the last time top flight speedway was held in London at what was in effect the old Hackney Stadium, it was a financial disaster and didn't last more than a season if memory serves correctly.

 

There clearly was a lot of interest in London in the past, but the demographics have changed hugely in the past 20-30 or so years. The sport just doesn't seem to occupy the interest of the average Londoner these days.

[Midland Red]

So, you start a topic with a melo-dramatic title.

You make an alarmist claim about up to 5 permanent wildcards being needed, though when asked produce nothing to substantiate this – and lo and behold, we have a full field of 15 confirmed.

 

Discussion on your opening points evolved pretty quickly into a discussion of the relative merits of GPS vs. World Championships. This discussion, which is highly relevant to your original post (given that you implied the GP was not a “proper” world championship event) continues for around 30 pages, to which you stopped contributing at around page 6. Admittedly from then, it moves slightly off topic into a discussion of great riders (of both GP and old WC eras), and finally devolves into a series of botanical puns (which I will confess, is a relatively significant divergence from the topic). I do find it a little bizarre that, havingat this point you decide to complain to the mods about it moving off topic?

 

So, back to your original post:

1. GP is not really in tatters it? In fact, while the standard may be slightly down on the last couple of seasons, there are arguably 7 riders in the field capable of winning the title (Crump, Gollob, Emil, Hampel, Jonsson, Holder, Pedersen) other \s likely to scrap for the 8^th spot but well capable of winning an individual GP (Harris, Lindgren, Lindback, Bjerre) and then three who are unlikely to be in contention but ,may surprise .
   

In 2013, I’d expect BSI to have sorted out the issue with the Poles, and potentially we could see the likes of Ward, Jankowski, G Laguta and Tai added to the field, which, even allowing for one of the “old brigade” potentially retiring, would be a very appetizing line up

1. World Finals have ALWAYS paid poorly. The only reason it is now an issue is the rule the Poles brought in - this is surely an issue with the Poles, not the GPs? And let’s face it, the field isn’t missing any of the riders in with a genuine shot at winning it is it?
   
2. An “old-style WC” as well as a GP? I thought this topic worth discussing, so actually opened a separate topic on this, which neither you (nor anyone else really) commented on – perhaps because it’s just not likely to happen. Anyway, a summary of how I saw it working, which would involve only an extra two weekends of meetings over a season were
   

 

 

 

 

– how would you see it working Midland Red?

1. Your other point was regarding how GP benefits British speedway, specifically the clubs. Surely, the purpose of the GP is not to benefit English clubs (or any clubs for that matter) – it’s to identify who the best Speedway rider is in a given year, and benefit speedway as a whole.
   

 

Ps: Like the avatar.

 

 

1. Glad you like the avatar

2. I did not make the claim (alarmist?) above there being 5 wildcards, it was generally being mentioned at that point in time that it appeared that several riders were not going to accept their places or invitations to take part in 2012 - I only passed in on for discussion since the future of SGP seemed rather cloudy at that moment

3. I have elsewhere made my views clear about GPs and how there could have been a GP series alongside a World Championship - but I accept we're too far past that point now - and no, I hadn't actually seen your post on it

4. At least you admitted that discussion had moved off topic - maybe I was tardy in questioning that but I don't find it bizarre, the forum was missing for some time and I had not visited it as much as I do during the speedway season!

5. What I do find bizarre is the fact that Poland seem to have so many GPs in a season, and that the UK can only stage one

6. The point about how British Speedway benefits from the GPs was a discussion which took place within the forum and whilst I take your point about why the GPs are staged, I fail to see how we benefit from them (as others were repeatedly stating) - I remain to be convinced

7. Please can you clarify if 15 riders have now been confirmed - I hope they have and that the series is not in tatters

 

Cheers

 

I thought it was just another mis-guided attempt to turn back the tide, and a poorly-chosen title,because Speedway GP is obviously not in tatters. MR, when you open a thread on a public forum it ceases to be your property.

 

Did I say it was "my property" ? I do not understand your comment

At the time of opening this thread, it seemed that there were questions over rider availability for 2012, and the question of 5 wildcards had been raised

So it did seem that, at that point in time, the GP series looked as it was in tatters

If there are now 15 riders confirmed, and all venues booked, and finances in place, and Tony Millard is banned from them, then I will accept that it is not in tatters

Having not kept in touch with the progress of the thread, when I found it had gone very much off topic, I raised that point

 

Cheers

[chunky]

5. What I do find bizarre is the fact that Poland seem to have so many GPs in a season, and that the UK can only stage one

 

At first glance, that does seem strange. However - and for whatever reason (sponsorship, public support etc) - the Poles seem very capable of sustaining multiple events. Do you believe that the same would apply in the UK? Personally, I doubt it.

 

Steve

[Humphrey Appleby]

At first glance, that does seem strange. However - and for whatever reason (sponsorship, public support etc) - the Poles seem very capable of sustaining multiple events. Do you believe that the same would apply in the UK? Personally, I doubt it.

 

I think it's more likely that BSI want to keep Cardiff as their showcase event for various reasons.

 

Polish cities possibly also have more scope to throw public money around than UK authorities.

[chunky]

I think it's more likely that BSI want to keep Cardiff as their showcase event for various reasons.

Valid point, but I'm still not convinced about the feasibility of having more than one.

 

Polish cities possibly also have more scope to throw public money around than UK authorities.

Again, a lot could depend on outside sponsorship as well as the income that GP's can generate for local businesses.

 

Steve

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

I appreciate this is your cause célèbre and I wouldn't entirely disagree that London probably could support a track at some level if a stable home could be found. However, the fact that several potential stadiums in the Greater London area aren't chasing after speedway is surely indicative of the level of interest. In addition, the last time top flight speedway was held in London at what was in effect the old Hackney Stadium, it was a financial disaster and didn't last more than a season if memory serves correctly.

 

There clearly was a lot of interest in London in the past, but the demographics have changed hugely in the past 20-30 or so years. The sport just doesn't seem to occupy the interest of the average Londoner these days.

 

Not strictly accurate about the London Stadium (sic) - the actual stadium went bust (actually the owners into liquidation before that Speedway league season for the London Lions in '96 even began) so whatever had happened with that promotion it was going to close..

Interesting what you say about the "several potential stadiums".. Certainly would be very interested to hear where you have in mind..

[BigFatDave]

Did I say it was "my property" ? I do not understand your comment

At the time of opening this thread, it seemed that there were questions over rider availability for 2012, and the question of 5 wildcards had been raised

So it did seem that, at that point in time, the GP series looked as it was in tatters

If there are now 15 riders confirmed, and all venues booked, and finances in place, and Tony Millard is banned from them, then I will accept that it is not in tatters

Having not kept in touch with the progress of the thread, when I found it had gone very much off topic, I raised that point

 

Cheers

All of the above points you posit should be followed by the phrase "In my opinion". As we can see, the GP Series has never looked stronger, with Auckland added to the list. Your comment re Tony Millard is, I presume, facetious, and I will treat it as such.

This thread has been very interesting, if indeed most of it has been debated before, and mostly it has followed the time-worn path of long-running threads on the BSF with claims, counter-claims, posts verging on abusive and the odd bit of humour introduced to lighten up the proceedings - I can't see anything to complain about, unless there's a serial Grinch lurking out there..

Edited December 14, 2011 by BigFatDave

[Midland Red]

All of the above points you posit should be followed by the phrase "In my opinion". As we can see, the GP Series has never looked stronger, with Auckland added to the list. Your comment re Tony Millard is, I presume, facetious, and I will treat it as such.

This thread has been very interesting, if indeed most of it has been debated before, and mostly it has followed the time-worn path of long-running threads on the BSF with claims, counter-claims, posts verging on abusive and the odd bit of humour introduced to lighten up the proceedings - I can't see anything to complain about, unless there's a serial Grinch lurking out there..

 

Why are your comments not suffixed "in my opinion" as well, then?

[Humphrey Appleby]

Not strictly accurate about the London Stadium (sic) - the actual stadium went bust (actually the owners into liquidation before that Speedway league season for the London Lions in '96 even began) so whatever had happened with that promotion it was going to close..

 

I think though, it's generally acknowledged that the Orange Man took a bath on the London Lions.

 

Interesting what you say about the "several potential stadiums".. Certainly would be very interested to hear where you have in mind..

 

Aside from Wimbledon, there are/were various greyhound stadiums in Greater London that could potentially stage speedway are there not?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Aside from Wimbledon, there are/were various greyhound stadiums in Greater London that could potentially stage speedway are there not?

 

Sadly not.

There are only THREE greyhound stadiums in Greater London: Plough Lane (which of course could still stage Speedway but for the owners' stance against it); the rebuilt Crayford which is too small and designed in such a way to make Speedway impossible; and my local dog track, Romford which would be my dream to introduce the sport but is totally surrounded by housing so getting planning consent would be as close to impossible as to make no difference..

Other stadia..? Hmm, well some football grounds were looked at in 2005/06 but nothing suitable found...

 

The only real option imho is the Olympics Park site... But that's another debate!!!

[stratton]

Sadly not.

There are only THREE greyhound stadiums in Greater London: Plough Lane (which of course could still stage Speedway but for the owners' stance against it); the rebuilt Crayford which is too small and designed in such a way to make Speedway impossible; and my local dog track, Romford which would be my dream to introduce the sport but is totally surrounded by housing so getting planning consent would be as close to impossible as to make no difference..

Other stadia..? Hmm, well some football grounds were looked at in 2005/06 but nothing suitable found...

 

The only real option imho is the Olympics Park site... But that's another debate!!!

Noing more about the London scene, is there ever any chance of Wimbledon the great plough lane returning Parsloes?Why was Hackney a disaster i went there loads of times[dont be late friday at eight]? never heard the full story of why it struggled financially.In the Silver days the track was good crowd reasonable i always felt the terracing seemed a bit lower and you had to look up to watch the speedway always had a good night out though.Off track a bit my son works in Bristol and hes heard off the grapevine that Bristol have had the go ahead the support of Speedway is good and that could be viable .Wimbledon,Halifax,and Bristol to comeback be great not a reality i presume.

[Humphrey Appleby]

There are only THREE greyhound stadiums in Greater London: Plough Lane (which of course could still stage Speedway but for the owners' stance against it); the rebuilt Crayford which is too small and designed in such a way to make Speedway impossible; and my local dog track, Romford which would be my dream to introduce the sport but is totally surrounded by housing so getting planning consent would be as close to impossible as to make no difference..

 

That though indicates the problem. Multi-use stadia haven't been able to pay their way in recent years, and the pressure on land is such that housing and other development becomes more attractive.

 

With respect to the London catchment area though, to me London is really four or five different regions and rarely the twain shall meet. When I lived in North London, I rarely ventured sarf of the Thames and even more rarely east of the Lea, and that seemed to be the same for most people. Rye House was easier to get to than Hackney, and certainly much easier than Wimbledon.

[ImpartialOne]

 

 

Oh I don't know, I think it was just a slight branch-ing off!

How con-i-fer get?