Speedway Gp In Tatters !

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

The British open at White City[ Sigalos took Nielsen from the back]? was a one off maybe Wembley could be the same again.Why not i think alot of people who support the GPS havent even seen it from the other side.What they no now, is all they no, that,s why i am a bit surprised with Philip,s attitude.He has vast knowledge and of course i respect his opinion but he is not that flexible.Wembley i believe could be rented i think someone with expertise and capital would do very well.Is there anybody who thinks maybe a one off event individual whatever could not attract 40,000?

 

Yes it was - though actually it was effectively a re-branding (for one year at that venue only) of the former Embassy Internationale... Which in itself was conceived initially in '61 as the World Final 'alternative' to compensate British fans for the fact that the WF wasn't always here. In the case of '82 not even on this continent!

 

I firmly believe that a big enough meeting at Wembley could sell out... Which is why I support bringing the sport to the New Wembley but don't believe that the GB SGP is anything like a big enough event for such an enterprise...

[PHILIPRISING]

PERSONALLY don't see why you think Wembley would be a sell-out and it is hardly in the middle of London is it? Great stadium, obviously, but poor location especially when travelling by road. And, to repeat, it doesn't have a roof and the cost of renting the stadium and putting in a track (which in itself would be well in excess of £100,000) when it could all be wiped out by rain would be financial suicide.

 

Why do you think that tourists coming to London (not Wembley) would be interested in going to a speedway GP?

 

Staging GPs at Ullevi is probably enough risk for one year and with the availability of two new covered stadiums in Stockholm one must wonder for how long Gothenburg will stay on the calendar.

 

I just don't possess the same sentimental feeling for Wembley as many on here do. That era ended in 1981 and I say that as someone who saw every World Final there from 1962, the 1966 World Cup Final, Manchester United winning the European Cup two years later and countless England internationals. The old stadium had a special aura despite the fact that in many respects it was a bit of a dump.

 

The Millennium Stadium is far better suited for GP speedway than Wembley for all sorts of reasons, not just the roof and, but as Humphrey points out, the ease in which the grass pitch can be temporarily removed. It is a much more compact arena and generates a fantastic atmosphere which frankly I don't think would be replicated at Wembley.

 

Also, and this cannot be over-stated, the Millennium officials love having the speedway there and beg over backwards to do everything they can to help. Do you honestly think the Football Association, who have already obliterated speedway's history at Wembley, would do the same?

[iris123]

PERSONALLY don't see why you think Wembley would be a sell-out and it is hardly in the middle of London is it? Great stadium, obviously, but poor location especially when travelling by road. And, to repeat, it doesn't have a roof and the cost of renting the stadium and putting in a track (which in itself would be well in excess of £100,000) when it could all be wiped out by rain would be financial suicide.

 

Why do you think that tourists coming to London (not Wembley) would be interested in going to a speedway GP?

 

Staging GPs at Ullevi is probably enough risk for one year and with the availability of two new covered stadiums in Stockholm one must wonder for how long Gothenburg will stay on the calendar.

 

I just don't possess the same sentimental feeling for Wembley as many on here do. That era ended in 1981 and I say that as someone who saw every World Final there from 1962, the 1966 World Cup Final, Manchester United winning the European Cup two years later and countless England internationals. The old stadium had a special aura despite the fact that in many respects it was a bit of a dump.

 

The Millennium Stadium is far better suited for GP speedway than Wembley for all sorts of reasons, not just the roof and, but as Humphrey points out, the ease in which the grass pitch can be temporarily removed. It is a much more compact arena and generates a fantastic atmosphere which frankly I don't think would be replicated at Wembley.

 

Also, and this cannot be over-stated, the Millennium officials love having the speedway there and beg over backwards to do everything they can to help. Do you honestly think the Football Association, who have already obliterated speedway's history at Wembley, would do the same?

I do agree with you on a number of points,but the location........it doesn't seem to and never has hindered all the 1000s who turn up for Cup Finals and other events.Can't remember ever seeing a half full Wembley for a Cup Final because half the crowd were stuck in jams or couldn't find the place I do agree with you that i think Parsloes is living in a bit of a dream world when repeatedly says for a "big" meeting the place would sell out.I doubt it would be much more than half full,the same as Cardiff isn't.Like you say,the FA can hardly be said to be speedway friendly and neither is the London press as far as i am aware,so it would be hard to sell the event.Still,from a personal point of view i would definitelly be there if a GP was held at Wembley

[stratton]

PERSONALLY don't see why you think Wembley would be a sell-out and it is hardly in the middle of London is it? Great stadium, obviously, but poor location especially when travelling by road. And, to repeat, it doesn't have a roof and the cost of renting the stadium and putting in a track (which in itself would be well in excess of £100,000) when it could all be wiped out by rain would be financial suicide. Why do you think that tourists coming to London (not Wembley) would be interested in going to a speedway GP? Staging GPs at Ullevi is probably enough risk for one year and with the availability of two new covered stadiums in Stockholm one must wonder for how long Gothenburg will stay on the calendar. I just don't possess the same sentimental feeling for Wembley as many on here do. That era ended in 1981 and I say that as someone who saw every World Final there from 1962, the 1966 World Cup Final, Manchester United winning the European Cup two years later and countless England internationals. The old stadium had a special aura despite the fact that in many respects it was a bit of a dump. The Millennium Stadium is far better suited for GP speedway than Wembley for all sorts of reasons, not just the roof and, but as Humphrey points out, the ease in which the grass pitch can be temporarily removed. It is a much more compact arena and generates a fantastic atmosphere which frankly I don't think would be replicated at Wembley. Also, and this cannot be over-stated, the Millennium officials love having the speedway there and beg over backwards to do everything they can to help. Do you honestly think the Football Association, who have already obliterated speedway's history at Wembley, would do the same?

Wembley is special,always has always will but its like now Cardiff is the bees knees and nothing else could be considered.Wembley now is different, things are run there on a regular basis they are happy to make a fast buck and if things are researched and looked into why not.By the way Philip hope the milleniums officials do bend over backwards they make anough money out of it do they not.If not Wembley there are other venues as well its like you treat Cardiff as a closed shop there or nowhere else for me Wembley or Cardiff been to both enjoyed both only one winner for me though.

 

I do agree with you on a number of points,but the location........it doesn't seem to and never has hindered all the 1000s who turn up for Cup Finals and other events.Can't remember ever seeing a half full Wembley for a Cup Final because half the crowd were stuck in jams or couldn't find the place I do agree with you that i think Parsloes is living in a bit of a dream world when repeatedly says for a "big" meeting the place would sell out.I doubt it would be much more than half full,the same as Cardiff isn't.Like you say,the FA can hardly be said to be speedway friendly and neither is the London press as far as i am aware,so it would be hard to sell the event.Still,from a personal point of view i would definitelly be there if a GP was held at Wembley

Its not a dream world is it, whats so stupid about considering Wembley i agree i would not have a g.p there either. Proper research and planning maybe a one off individual meeting,with a large amount of prize money at the end of it that would work i am sure.Ok you might not get 50,000 and might be half full still be a big event though wouldnt it.

[iris123]

Its not a dream world is it, whats so stupid about considering Wembley i agree i would not have a g.p there either. Proper research and planning maybe a one off individual meeting,with a large amount of prize money at the end of it that would work i am sure.Ok you might not get 50,000 and might be half full still be a big event though wouldnt it.

I think you have read my post wrong Sidney.I said it was a dream world to think Wembley would be full for such a meeting.I never said it was stupid or any other word to consider Wembley.I even said i would be there like a shot.Just i don't think there will be 70 or 80 thousand people queueing up to get in with me.They did hold the Race of Champions meeting there with cars,so i guess speedway could also be held.Number of factors though,like someone willing to put up the money and needing media and sponsorship interest.Getting tv personalities interested would be a good start.I remember going to Gelsenkirchen along with about 10,000 was it.But a couple of weeks later a Stock Car meeting at the same stadium got about double the speedway.And all because it was organised by a popular tv presenter and shown on tv.Now of course it is far easier for tv personalities to drive cars round tracks and cars are more popular than bikes,but just goes to show what tv exposure can do.

Edited December 14, 2011 by iris123

[PHILIPRISING]

NONE of us actually know how many people a speedway meeting at Wembley would attract. But we do know that it would be a massive financial gamble. The cost of staging a meeting there, even if the Wembley owners sanctioned an event, would run into many hundreds of thousands of pounds. So, the essential question is who will stump up the money in the first place knowing that it could quite conceivably end in tears. Even if the weather was kind.

 

Cannot accept the analogy of soccer fans turning up in their droves for Cup Finals. Might do if Belle Vue attracted 76,000 for their home matches as do Man United.

[iris123]

NONE of us actually know how many people a speedway meeting at Wembley would attract. But we do know that it would be a massive financial gamble. The cost of staging a meeting there, even if the Wembley owners sanctioned an event, would run into many hundreds of thousands of pounds. So, the essential question is who will stump up the money in the first place knowing that it could quite conceivably end in tears. Even if the weather was kind.

 

Cannot accept the analogy of soccer fans turning up in their droves for Cup Finals. Might do if Belle Vue attracted 76,000 for their home matches as do Man United.

Think you have it wrong.You said it was a bad location,but i said 1000s manage to fill the place for Football or Rugby Finals for instance.They manage to get to the place all right and most don't live next door or for Rugby at least even in London.So i don't take that as a valid argument.Got nothing to do with crowd levels at league games,just logistics

You can't get me to believe Cardiff is in a better location than the capital city.Wembley is near probably the main motorway in Britain and one of the main airports in Europe.Cardiff is ??????? Hand on heart i have never been there in my life and doubt i ever will go.It is so out of the way and i doubt most people had ever been there before the GPs were held there apart from some Welsh supporters on here

Edited December 14, 2011 by iris123

[PHILIPRISING]

CARDIFF is a capital city ... very accessible from many parts of the UK, more so for many than Wembley. You should try it sometime.

 

And Wembley is a poor location. Tens of thousands of fans may attend various events there but that doesn't mean it isn't a nightmare journey for them. I live in Surrey and I have tried various methods of getting to and from and all of them torturous.

[mickthemuppet]

NONE of us actually know how many people a speedway meeting at Wembley would attract. But we do know that it would be a massive financial gamble. The cost of staging a meeting there, even if the Wembley owners sanctioned an event, would run into many hundreds of thousands of pounds. So, the essential question is who will stump up the money in the first place knowing that it could quite conceivably end in tears. Even if the weather was kind.

 

 

I wonder if they said that in 1949 or perhaps you thought it was not a gamble then. Surely any world final at Wembley was a gamble with the weather a very big feature . How many Speedway meetings were held at Wembley. Far more than will ever be seen at Cardiff.

[Woz01]

It wont ever be at Wembley for the simple reason they wouldnt want to take the risk with the weather while laying the track. They have Cardiff with the roof so they can prepare the track without any threat. I go to England games regulary and Wembley is in a poor location compared to Cardiff (city centre).

 

I wonder if they said that in 1949 or perhaps you thought it was not a gamble then. Surely any world final at Wembley was a gamble with the weather a very big feature . How many Speedway meetings were held at Wembley. Far more than will ever be seen at Cardiff.

 

The difference is that we now have a facility in Cardiff where the weather is not an issue.

[iris123]

CARDIFF is a capital city ... very accessible from many parts of the UK, more so for many than Wembley. You should try it sometime.

 

And Wembley is a poor location. Tens of thousands of fans may attend various events there but that doesn't mean it isn't a nightmare journey for them. I live in Surrey and I have tried various methods of getting to and from and all of them torturous.

Come on Phil....King's Lynn is easier to get to for many as is Barrow on Furness,but people from all over travel there.You don't build a major world famous stadium in a place no-one can reach.And when it was built people weren't as mobile as they are today It is world famous.Even here in Germany they talk about Wembley as one of the great sporting stadiums in the world.Who mentions Cardiff?I saw a speedway world final,Englad football and even Evel Knievel at Wembley,but wild horses wouldn't drag me to Cardiff because of it's location

[mickthemuppet]

Sorrry woz01, my post was directed to a 2nd GP in this country. I think Cardiff is ideal but I was thinking of a second GP in this country

[PHILIPRISING]

MICKTHEMUPPET ... said before, the old Wembley had a permanent speedway track. The new Wembley doesn't. And in those days there was no choice. There is now. And a better one in my opinion. But that's all it is ...

[stratton]

I think you have read my post wrong Sidney.I said it was a dream world to think Wembley would be full for such a meeting.I never said it was stupid or any other word to consider Wembley.I even said i would be there like a shot.Just i don't think there will be 70 or 80 thousand people queueing up to get in with me.They did hold the Race of Champions meeting there with cars,so i guess speedway could also be held.Number of factors though,like someone willing to put up the money and needing media and sponsorship interest.Getting tv personalities interested would be a good start.I remember going to Gelsenkirchen along with about 10,000 was it.But a couple of weeks later a Stock Car meeting at the same stadium got about double the speedway.And all because it was organised by a popular tv presenter and shown on tv.Now of course it is far easier for tv personalities to drive cars round tracks and cars are more popular than bikes,but just goes to show what tv exposure can do.

Am sorry Iris,my fault i agree entireley it will take alot of effort research and organising and importantly finance,i no the 70,000s crowd are long gone.Could be explored though who knows.Five years ago Wembley certainly was a no go now i think they would be open to offers.At the moment there is Cardiff and nothing else could be a gap in the market and a place for something new.

 

CARDIFF is a capital city ... very accessible from many parts of the UK, more so for many than Wembley. You should try it sometime.

 

And Wembley is a poor location. Tens of thousands of fans may attend various events there but that doesn't mean it isn't a nightmare journey for them. I live in Surrey and I have tried various methods of getting to and from and all of them torturous.

Have you a vested interest Philip,? makes me wonder no pluses at all about other ideas.Cardiff is ok ive been there football [ect] its no great shakes though other places just as good.London to me is pretty good to get too, plenty to do i went to Hammersmith from Swindon the other week good journey cheap pre booked train and tubes good.Dont get me wrong been to Cardiff twice enjoyed it, not the Harris year atmosphere good the racing though has it been that good i think that is questionable.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Why do you think that tourists coming to London (not Wembley) would be interested in going to a speedway GP?

 

Staging GPs at Ullevi is probably enough risk for one year and with the availability of two new covered stadiums in Stockholm one must wonder for how long Gothenburg will stay on the calendar.

 

I never said tourists would go to Wembley in significant numbers for a Speedway meeting. I was just pointing out that London IS one (if not THE) biggest tourist attractions in the world... I don't want to dig out Cardiff - I've been to the MS for football and the SGP and it is a great venue and Cardiff seems an okay place; but as others have pointed out once Wembley was rebuilt things like the FA Cup Final and the RL Chalenge Cup Final (which I've been to every year since its return to Wembley) were not reticent about returning to their spiritual home. The access problems you mention certainly don't bother them and frankly it is a myth that Wembley is difficult to access from central London and stations like Euston and King's Cross...

 

I couldn't agree more that our sport has been treated shockingly by those who have promoted the Wembley legend and we have been air-brushed out of its history. I can no more defend that than I can even understand why that has happened. There's not a shadow of doubt (we've had the discussion before...) that Speedway is in the top three of sports/events to have been held at the old stadium in crowd terms and the top three (Football, Greyhound Racing and Speedway) are way, way ahead of any other events...

But I do think that IF someone gambled on an event there (and sadly I guess it's not likely currently that anyone would...) it would attract a very big crowd..

 

As for Gothenberg? - well having been more thoroughly soaked to the skin there in '77 than I have been anywhere else ever(!) and I'm certain you've been soaked there many, many more times Phil, it does seem weather-wise a wholly unsuitable place for anyone to try and hold a Speedway meeting!

 

I saw a speedway world final,Englad football and even Evel Knievel at Wembley,but wild horses wouldn't drag me to Cardiff because of it's location

 

Now I'm really jealous...: I really wanted to see Evel Knieval but my Dad wouldn't take me!!

[BigFatDave]

Why are your comments not suffixed "in my opinion" as well, then?

Because I was responding to your query, rather than using a question to answer another question; the usual last resort of people who can't back up their argument, as you have done here.

[PHILIPRISING]

OF course I don't have a vested interest other than enjoying the fact that speedway has such a great showpiece event which reflects well on the sport to many on the outside.

 

I just don't see how anyone could see gambling upwards of half a million on putting on a speedway meeting at Wembley, with no cast iron guarantee that the event would even go ahead or what the crowd would be, makes any sense at all. The roof is a major factor not just on the day itself but for track preparation. BSI effectively hire the Millennium for a week. How much do you think Wembley would cost for a similar period.

 

The Football Association don't even recognise the history speedway had at the old Empire Stadium and efforts by Barry Briggs to locate a speedway museum there have simply fallen on deaf ears.

 

The weather is rarely kind in Gothenburg but the city is desperate to keep the Grand Prix there especially as so many other major sporting events in Sweden have moved elsewhere. However, the lure of covered stadiums in Stockholm, one of which I believe actually has a temperature controlled climate, will be tough to resist. And, personally, I think the capital is much nicer place to visit.

[Humphrey Appleby]

CARDIFF is a capital city ... very accessible from many parts of the UK, more so for many than Wembley. You should try it sometime. And Wembley is a poor location.

 

Sorry, but you simply can't convince me that Cardiff is more accessible than Wembley; neither internationally nor even within the UK. I have tried it and the public transport is poor, the facilities in the city are limited and expensive, and Cardiff has little to offer beyond the event itself regardless of it's supposed status as a capital city.

 

I can understand that Cardiff might be a cost effective venue for BSI, and has the bonus of being covered, but let's not pretend it's for the convenience of the fans.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Sorry, but you simply can't convince me that Cardiff is more accessible than Wembley; neither internationally nor even within the UK. I have tried it and the public transport is poor, the facilities in the city are limited and expensive, and Cardiff has little to offer beyond the event itself regardless of it's supposed status as a capital city.

 

I can understand that Cardiff might be a cost effective venue for BSI, and has the bonus of being covered, but let's not pretend it's for the convenience of the fans.

 

Well indeed.

I'm sure we're all very grateful that such a major stadium has a deal to stage the GB SGP (though to be fair the MS and the city do benefit financially from the deal - it's NOT an act of benevolence..); but Hump is spot on, Cardiff is NOT this great convenient location. Look where the majority of Speedway tracks are... It ain't that near South Wales!!

[BigFatDave]

Cardiff is within a 4 hour train ride/drive of most of southern Britain - to say it isn't a convenient location is absolute rubbish. Then once you're there everything's convenient - stadium, hotels, shops, pubs etc, all within walkng distance - it's certainly on my list of favourite venues.