Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 And why wasn't he in it from the start? Because he failed to qualify. What you're saying is the same as Alan Grahame in the 1984 World Final. He scored 5 from 2. Had he been in the starting 16 he could have been World Champion but he wasn't because he didn't qualify. Is Hans Andersen your best example? If so it shows how weak your point is. As usual you TOTALLY miss the point. The old World Championship system was an event held in its entirety in one year... IF you qualified for the WF you did so by competing in QRs held THAT year... Thus IF you had a great year when your form was at its peak, you could get to the WF and have a stab at it that year... The current system 100% does NOT allow that to happen... This is a very simple fact - try and understand it!! As I keep saying, defend the GP system as much as you want; but you and others seem totally unable to recognise these fundamental realities about it as - as White Knight says - an inherently flawed system... Oh and please note, the people hurling personal abuse (which really shouldn't be necessary!) are ALWAYS the defenders of the GP system and never those who make constructive criticisms of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 As usual you TOTALLY miss the point. The old World Championship system was an event held in its entirety in one year... IF you qualified for the WF you did so by competing in QRs held THAT year... Thus IF you had a great year when your form was at its peak, you could get to the WF and have a stab at it that year... The current system 100% does NOT allow that to happen... This is a very simple fact - try and understand it!! As I keep saying, defend the GP system as much as you want; but you and others seem totally unable to recognise these fundamental realities about it as - as White Knight says - an inherently flawed system... Oh and please note, the people hurling personal abuse (which really shouldn't be necessary!) are ALWAYS the defenders of the GP system and never those who make constructive criticisms of it!! Why are you talking to me about hurling abuse? Is this to detract from the fact you once again avoided my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) As usual you TOTALLY miss the point. The old World Championship system was an event held in its entirety in one year... IF you qualified for the WF you did so by competing in QRs held THAT year... Thus IF you had a great year when your form was at its peak, you could get to the WF and have a stab at it that year... The current system 100% does NOT allow that to happen... This is a very simple fact - try and understand it!! As I keep saying, defend the GP system as much as you want; but you and others seem totally unable to recognise these fundamental realities about it as - as White Knight says - an inherently flawed system... As has been pointed out to you many times thou the gp has it faults, the problem you got is that you try to make out the one off World final was some kind of fair event when in fact it was inherently flawed in so many ways ...as i said every year it was held you never had the best 16 riders for a start, how flawed is that ? Edited November 20, 2011 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 As usual you TOTALLY miss the point. The old World Championship system was an event held in its entirety in one year... IF you qualified for the WF you did so by competing in QRs held THAT year... Thus IF you had a great year when your form was at its peak, you could get to the WF and have a stab at it that year... The current system 100% does NOT allow that to happen... This is a very simple fact - try and understand it!! As I keep saying, defend the GP system as much as you want; but you and others seem totally unable to recognise these fundamental realities about it as - as White Knight says - an inherently flawed system... Oh and please note, the people hurling personal abuse (which really shouldn't be necessary!) are ALWAYS the defenders of the GP system and never those who make constructive criticisms of it!! But the qualifying system used for the old one day world final was fundamentally flawed. The Intercontinental riders didn't meet the Eastern Europeans until the final. Due to travel restrictions forced on the Eastern Europeans it meant the majority of them were of a lower standard than the Western riders. What about when the Final was held at Wembley? British league riders had a chance to race there several times a year but for Russians and Poles the final would be their first experience. No system is perfect. Personally I would like to be able to watch 11/12 GPs a year on telly as opposed to the slight chance of seeing one meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 People who don't like Gp's are all the same type ..they hate the play offs they want second halfs back, love one off world finals and are over 50 and had zero idea about the money side of the sport . When you talk about the money side of the sport did you mean the one off World Finals at Wembley. There all profits from these finals went back into British speedway as compared to the current GP's where nothing goes back into British Speedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 When you talk about the money side of the sport did you mean the one off World Finals at Wembley. There all profits from these finals went back into British speedway as compared to the current GP's where nothing goes back into British Speedway Yep it's shame things are not what they were 30 years ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yep it's shame things are not what they were 30 years ago . This kind of crass comment contributes nothing... The point being made was that the profits from the WF (which when at Wembley was always hugely successful and funny enough not attended by just 500 people as you said earlier... ) were shared out within the sport. Proceeds from the SGPs are, er, not... You show an extraordinary lack of sophistication in automatically assuming that everything in life and business is better now than in the past.. Look at the state of British politics, welfare state and economy and make that same sweeping statement and I think you'll sound rather foolish... Use well-thought out arguments rather than saying ah, it's an old idea it must be wrong and there'd be some credibility in the points being made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Why are you talking to me about hurling abuse? Is this to detract from the fact you once again avoided my question? What was your question..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 This kind of crass comment contributes nothing... The point being made was that the profits from the WF (which when at Wembley was always hugely successful and funny enough not attended by just 500 people as you said earlier... ) were shared out within the sport. Proceeds from the SGPs are, er, not... But Wembley was a thing of the past as was Bradford even before the GPs came along.You can't argue against the GPs with things that were part of the past and won't come back.Britain had it good for a long time and failed to capitalise on all of that.....No good thinking those days will ever come back with or without a one day World Final.If we went back to a World Final old style now which venue would we get?Guess we would be lucky to get Cardiff once every 4 years or so.And that money shared out(even if it was allowed now)amongst all the clubs once every 4 years wouldn't go far.Just like it didn't seem to help any of the old promoters to buy a stadium........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 What was your question..? Read it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 But Wembley was a thing of the past as was Bradford even before the GPs came along. Not quite. Bradford staged at least one Grand Prix round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 There were flaws in the old one off World Final Qualication yes - BUT - as I have said many times at least anyone COULD and sometimes DID qualify. Currently there is a debate as to who to 'award' a place to in the Speedway GPs. Are you seriously arguing that this is a FAIR and morally JUST way of organising a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Speedway currently has a credibility problem with the British Public at large. One of the reasons for this is the pathetic way that the current GP System is run. If you are one of the select few, you are fine - just look at Chris Harris as proof of this. I have nothing against Harris - but - his place in the GPs next Season looks very dodgy to me. I am a regular Speedway Supporter - how will this look to an outsider? At a time when Speedway support is dwindling - it is things like this (and there are others things too) that need addressing. We British are renowned for our sense of 'Fair Play'. Perhaps if we can get back to that - things may begin to improve. He must be right, he's used underlining and italics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 This kind of crass comment contributes nothing... The point being made was that the profits from the WF (which when at Wembley was always hugely successful and funny enough not attended by just 500 people as you said earlier... ) were shared out within the sport. Proceeds from the SGPs are, er, not... You show an extraordinary lack of sophistication in automatically assuming that everything in life and business is better now than in the past.. Look at the state of British politics, welfare state and economy and make that same sweeping statement and I think you'll sound rather foolish... Use well-thought out arguments rather than saying ah, it's an old idea it must be wrong and there'd be some credibility in the points being made... Nothing about it being automatically better, the fact is time has moved on ..British speedway is not he top league in the world, not as many people watch speedway in the uk anymore etc etc . My assuming that people who want the off final back are over 50 is spot on thou ,people living in the past . it would be great if speedway could have the crowds like it did in the golden years but the fact it thats not going to happen by bringing things back things that were popular 40 years ago like you want . As for credibility you already been told how unfair and wrong the old system was about 300 times not sure why we have to tell you again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not quite. Bradford staged at least one Grand Prix round. Stand corrected.Didn't bother to look it up.But my one and only meeting between Wimbledon closing and a Vojens GP in 2003 or so was 1995 Eastie V Bradford,so i should have guessed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 ......orion......People who don't like Gp's are all the same type ..they hate the play offs they want second halfs back, love one off world finals and are over 50 and had zero idea about the money side of the sport . Well that's cheered me up no end and made me feel better about myself. I'm over 50 but don't want second halfs back or one off world finals and I love the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Nothing about it being automatically better, the fact is time has moved on ..British speedway is not he top league in the world, not as many people watch speedway in the uk anymore etc etc . My assuming that people who want the off final back are over 50 is spot on thou ,people living in the past . it would be great if speedway could have the crowds like it did in the golden years but the fact it thats not going to happen by bringing things back things that were popular 40 years ago like you want . As for credibility you already been told how unfair and wrong the old system was about 300 times not sure why we have to tell you again . With all due respect IF the GPs were so great how come it's under the GP system that the decline you so accurately depict has most acclerated under...?! You may well be right that we would never see massive crowds at a WF again, though frankly I'd bet my house on more people attending a WF at Cardiff/Wembley/Olympic Stadium than currently attend the British GP... After all, it wouldn't be less would it; and whether you like it or not, there is a sizeable number of people who are Speedway die-hards who are utterly disillusioned with the relative pointlessness of the early round British SGP... Also the old system can no more be 'proven' "unfair and wrong" than the current one! What id DID deliver was a superb one-off night of excitement which frankly is utterly lacking in the multi-round system. AND it allowed those with the guts and quality to have a fair crack of the whip of breaking into it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I am all confused now,as i thought you and one or two others have spent days,weeks and months trying to convince us how flawed and unfair the GP system is.Now you say ....Also the old system can no more be 'proven' "unfair and wrong" than the current one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 With all due respect IF the GPs were so great how come it's under the GP system that the decline you so accurately depict has most acclerated under...?! You may well be right that we would never see massive crowds at a WF again, though frankly I'd bet my house on more people attending a WF at Cardiff/Wembley/Olympic Stadium than currently attend the British GP... After all, it wouldn't be less would it; and whether you like it or not, there is a sizeable number of people who are Speedway die-hards who are utterly disillusioned with the relative pointlessness of the early round British SGP... Also the old system can no more be 'proven' "unfair and wrong" than the current one! What id DID deliver was a superb one-off night of excitement which frankly is utterly lacking in the multi-round system. AND it allowed those with the guts and quality to have a fair crack of the whip of breaking into it.. How manu more times i don't think the Gp's are great far from it ,what my problem is is that you try make out that they are not fair and the one off world final was ..when each year it never allowed the top 16 riders to be in it . The GP'S is far from perfect but to go about the one off world off world final being fair is a joke ..the one of final did not give you fair crack of whip to get into as if were born in certain part of the world you had less of a chance of getting into the final . As for the world one of final being superb exitement that is another joke thou some were good a lot of them were boring due to having 6 or 7 guys who had right to be in there in the first place .... Tell me what sort of crowds were the one off world finals getting in there last few years ? 100.000, 50,000 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 He must be right, he's used underlining and italics. CORRECT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 With all due respect IF the GPs were so great how come it's under the GP system that the decline you so accurately depict has most acclerated under...?! You may well be right that we would never see massive crowds at a WF again, though frankly aI'd bet my house on more peoplettending a WF at Cardiff/Wembley/Olympic Stadium than currently attend the British GP... After all, it wouldn't be less would it; and whether you like it or not, there is a sizeable number of people who are Speedway die-hards who are utterly disillusioned with the relative pointlessness of the early round British SGP... Also the old system can no more be 'proven' "unfair and wrong" than the current one! What id DID deliver was a superb one-off night of excitement which frankly is utterly lacking in the multi-round system. AND it allowed those with the guts and quality to have a fair crack of the whip of breaking into it.. Bet there are more fans attending all the GPs added together than there would be at a one off World Final held at Cardiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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