Speedway Gp In Tatters !

[Humphrey Appleby]

Oh yes,the FIM are feeling a bit cocky now after giving Polski Zuzel a bloody nose over the silencer affair.

 

Weren't the silencers a different thing because the riders had already signed contracts for the SGP. This time the riders concerned seemingly haven't, so there's no obligation on their part to ride.

 

Can't see what the FIM hope to gain out of confrontation with the Polish League. A legal action is unlikely to be successfully fought before the start of next season, and it'll bring into question the benefits of the SGP to the Polish League.

[HenryW]

A slightly Ango-centric view. Polish and Swedish form would put Grigori Laguta up there with Ward, but his absence from the World Cup must count against him (with some justification I think).

Can you explain why you think that should count against him? Grigory raced in the World Cup match that he was able to race in.

 

Should it not count more against FIM events being staged in the UK?

[iris123]

Weren't the silencers a different thing because the riders had already signed contracts for the SGP. This time the riders concerned seemingly haven't, so there's no obligation on their part to ride.

 

Can't see what the FIM hope to gain out of confrontation with the Polish League. A legal action is unlikely to be successfully fought before the start of next season, and it'll bring into question the benefits of the SGP to the Polish League.

I wasn't talking about individual riders who didn't want to use the silencers.More the fact that the Polish league itself didn't use the new silencers at first until forced to back down.Plus it showed the other side to the GPs.The fact that the riders did back down because they wanted to be in it.Otherwise they could have just pulled out of the GPs and SWC like they threatened to do....

[waiheke1]

"speedway gp in tatters"... except its not really, is it? So a couple of riders have opted out (or are likely to opt out). We still have say a dozen out of the world's top 15 riders competing, and no one is missing that you would expect to be genuinely challenging for a rostrum spot (yes Ward is quality, but not sure you would expect him to do much better than Holder managed in his first season)? Compare that to the old "one-off" World Finals, where you might have say 8 of the top 15 riders competing, and invariably be missing at least one leading candidate for at least a podium sport (from the 80s, I can think of only 1981 where this was not the case).

 

All the GP haters seem also to be seizing on the fact that the financial rewards for riders in the GP arent great.

But back in the "old days" I recall Billy Sanders contemplating not entering the World Champs, because he reckoned unless you finished in the top 3, it wasn;t worth competing (from a financail point of view). Mike Lee in 1981 said that one of the reasons he lost motivation with speedway was because the financial rewards he thought would be there for a World Champion didn't eventuate. And countless riders complained about losing money riding for their country in test matches or World Cup events.

 

Ward I'm sure will enter the GP the next year (2013) , and no doubt do well. Yes, it's sad he's not likely to compete next year, but its hardly the end of the world.

Edited November 2, 2011 by waihekeaces1

[Midland Red]

Perhaps the inference was that they couldn't even get 16 riders for next year's GPs

11 starters and scrape around to find five "wildcards" for each round

If that's the case, I suggest it's "in tatters"

[salty]

Compare that to the old "one-off" World Finals, where you might have say 8 of the top 15 riders competing, and invariably be missing at least one leading candidate for at least a podium sport (from the 80s, I can think of only 1981 where this was not the case).

1981? Billy Sanders (3rd in1980) didn't even get through to the European rounds, being eliminated (along with Phil Crump) in the Australasian Final.

[waiheke1]

1981? Billy Sanders (3rd in1980) didn't even get through to the European rounds, being eliminated (along with Phil Crump) in the Australasian Final.

 

true, you could have made arguments for both those riders, also I guess Mauger, though I'm not sure any of them were better in that year than any of the other riders who qualified via th inter-continental final.

i guess 81 was less obvious than off the top of my head say 80 (reigning champ MAuger and also Olsen), 82 (Gundersen, ), 84 (Carter, Morton), 85 (Carter), 86 (S Moran, Wigg), 87 (S Moran) 89 (Pedersen, S Moran).

[Dave_minall]

It is nice to see that riders seemed to be no better off riding in the old one off world final than the GPs today.

 

Another reason for all of you to stop begging for it to make a comeback, because it won't.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Dave_Minall

[waiheke1]

Perhaps the inference was that they couldn't even get 16 riders for next year's GPs

11 starters and scrape around to find five "wildcards" for each round

If that's the case, I suggest it's "in tatters"

 

is this based on any sort of reliable source (nothing posted on this topic to support this), or simply speculation by the anti-GP brigade?

only seem to be two named riders (DW/PP)of those in the 15 expected not to accept their spots based on what i can see on this thread (and others).

So would seem to be a worst case 13 riders, but I'd be pretty confident that two replacements will be found.

[stratton]

"speedway gp in tatters"... except its not really, is it? So a couple of riders have opted out (or are likely to opt out). We still have say a dozen out of the world's top 15 riders competing, and no one is missing that you would expect to be genuinely challenging for a rostrum spot (yes Ward is quality, but not sure you would expect him to do much better than Holder managed in his first season)? Compare that to the old "one-off" World Finals, where you might have say 8 of the top 15 riders competing, and invariably be missing at least one leading candidate for at least a podium sport (from the 80s, I can think of only 1981 where this was not the case).

 

All the GP haters seem also to be seizing on the fact that the financial rewards for riders in the GP arent great.

But back in the "old days" I recall Billy Sanders contemplating not entering the World Champs, because he reckoned unless you finished in the top 3, it wasn;t worth competing (from a financail point of view). Mike Lee in 1981 said that one of the reasons he lost motivation with speedway was because the financial rewards he thought would be there for a World Champion didn't eventuate. And countless riders complained about losing money riding for their country in test matches or World Cup events.

 

Ward I'm sure will enter the GP next year, and no doubt do well. Yes, it's sad he's not likely to compete next year, but its hardly the end of the world.

I think if Ward has a year of riding the leagues this year organising for the future 2013, i think he would have a great chance of getting in the 3.Also wouldnt be impossible to win it unlikely 1st time around thou.I no this might seem a strange comment,unless he is helped financially to lodge a challenge for the title i would think twice about racing in it if i was Darcy.I would be thinking of my future as you are a long time not riding and he will want to earn money.Alot of other people have mentioned the prize money is a joke and with all his investment ect aquipment team,will Darcy want to be out of pocket.Hope he does go in it as this series needs him bigtime a crowd puller puts bums on seats.

[Humphrey Appleby]

All the GP haters seem also to be seizing on the fact that the financial rewards for riders in the GP arent great.

 

It's not necessarily about being a GP hater per se, but about the way it's run.

 

But back in the "old days" I recall Billy Sanders contemplating not entering the World Champs, because he reckoned unless you finished in the top 3, it wasn;t worth competing (from a financail point of view).

 

No-one would dispute that the financial rewards for the old World Championship were poor (at least in more recent times). However, riders were also not expected to race 11-12 rounds or miss lucrative domestic meetings either, and the proceeds of the World Finals went back to the sport.

 

Moreover, more than a decade ago we were told the SGP would raise the sport to a new threshold and herald an era of riders competing full-time at that level. Well I'm afraid one of those predictions is not even close to coming true, and what's been achieved with respect to the other is highly debatable.

[waiheke1]

It's not necessarily about being a GP hater per se, but about the way it's run.

 

 

 

No-one would dispute that the financial rewards for the old World Championship were poor (at least in more recent times). However, riders were also not expected to race 11-12 rounds or miss lucrative domestic meetings either, and the proceeds of the World Finals went back to the sport.

 

Moreover, more than a decade ago we were told the SGP would raise the sport to a new threshold and herald an era of riders competing full-time at that level. Well I'm afraid one of those predictions is not even close to coming true, and what's been achieved with respect to the other is highly debatable.

 

Humphrey, you make valid points.

However, I'd expect that the sponsorship rewards possible for the GP riders, given that they are in 11 televised world final events must be greater than for riders in the old world champs?

also, if you were an english rider in the 80s, you'd race in 5 qualifying rounds plus the final, in addition maybe 8 test matches, possibly a couple of World Pairs meetings and a few WTC meetings as well - so I'd argue you would have missed more league meetings then than now? And of course, there wasn't the option of riding in multiple competitive and rewarding leagues.

Raising sport "to a new threshold" sounds like pure marketing speak i have to say - but i reckon there's an excellent product, and the fact that the top riders compete against each other so regularly has to have improved their quality (some may argue this is a bad thing in increasing the quality gap between those in GPs and those outside).

[Humphrey Appleby]

However, I'd expect that the sponsorship rewards possible for the GP riders, given that they are in 11 televised world final events must be greater than for riders in the old world champs?

 

Probably true, especially for the top riders, but it's clearly not sufficient for all the riders in the field. It's hard to imagine anyone turning down an F1 drive, yet here we have the absurd situation of riders not wanting to compete in the supposedly highest level of the sport.

 

Raising sport "to a new threshold" sounds like pure marketing speak i have to say - but i reckon there's an excellent product, and the fact that the top riders compete against each other so regularly has to have improved their quality (some may argue this is a bad thing in increasing the quality gap between those in GPs and those outside).

 

The SGP is okay as a product, but not brillant. I personally think it became too stale and predictable at one point, the racing was boring, and the same 16 riders facing each other over-and-over again lacked variety. The past couple of seasons have been better, but individual racing just isn't my thing when it's all said and done.

 

Each to their own of course, but I think it's hard for anyone to seriously argue that the SGP has progressed much in the past 10 years. A handful more rounds (albeit in much the same old places), a couple of showcase stadiums, and the promise of the odd GP in an exotic location is about the lot. Okay, I suppose it's a fair point that it's shown live on television (at least when Sky don't relegate it to the red button), but I suspect that would also have been the case with the old World Championship in this day-and-age. It hasn't come close to being a MotoGP, far less F1-type competition, despite all the hype in the early years.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[stratton]

Probably true, especially for the top riders, but it's clearly not sufficient for all the riders in the field. It's hard to imagine anyone turning down an F1 drive, yet here we have the absurd situation of riders not wanting to compete in the supposedly highest level of the sport.

 

 

 

The SGP is okay as a product, but not brillant. I personally think it became too stale and predictable at one point, the racing was boring, and the same 16 riders facing each other over-and-over again lacked variety. The past couple of seasons have been better, but individual racing just isn't my thing when it's all said and done.

 

Each to their own of course, but I think it's hard for anyone to seriously argue that the SGP has progressed much in the past 10 years. A handful more rounds (albeit in much the same old places), a couple of showcase stadiums, and the promise of the odd GP in an exotic location is about the lot. Okay, I suppose it's a fair point that it's shown live on television (at least when Sky don't relegate it to the red button), but I suspect that would also have been the case with the old World Championship in this day-and-age. It hasn't come close to being a MotoGP, far less F1-type competition, despite all the hype in the early years.

I am with you, is a myth that the gp series has dragged speedway along into the new ara for the better of the sport.Rubbish prize money,the british leagues forgot about and by the way is struggling at the moment.Ive always been amazed that most people think its all hunky dorrey and the gps are great ive never thought that.I also have always prefered team racing to individual events.

[Hawk127]

The GP has its merits and perhaps if it were sufficiently financially rewarding to run as a stand alone competition along the lines of F1 then the choice would be easy for the riders. You hear that it costs them so much money to participate and I know it gets the riders noticed on the world stage and may help them command bigger salaries from the various domestic teams they ride for but as a competition where is it going given the outside factors now starting to impact on the rider participation. You really do not want to see a competition made up almost entirely of Poles. I don't know the answer to the qualifying process and the wild cards seem to be a unfair on those who have just missed out on qualifying by riding various rounds. Perhaps they should do away with the wild card from each country for each round. Instead run the competition with a pool of riders and draw them randomly with no rider allowed to compete in more than say five rounds then all those in the 'pot' would get a chance to compete. The riders for the next round could be drawn at the end of each GP. Then the final would be the top leading scorers at the end of say eleven rounds who go through to the final.

 

.

[The Know]

The SGP is the best thing to happen to speedway end of storey. Yes there are several areas which need inprovement as i have said before and it should of moved on in last few years. I have been very critical of them lately and there staff.If you compare SGP to ama supercross which is the closest 2 wheel indoor sport the prize money is very much the same.

Riders do generally want to be in the gp and be world champion. The sponsors pay more for a gp rider than non gp for coverage. They need to sell themselves a lot better.

The problem is there are riders who have no chance of winning and it may cost them to compete but this is like mx1 motocross. ( no prize or start money at all )

Pepe is out as he knows he is not good enough and his increased sponsorship will be lost in polish earnings being down due to one rider rule.

Ward is young enough to miss a year, he has the sponsorship to do SGP if he wanted to but another year out wont hurt, unless he gets injured and couldnt compete in the future then he may have regrets.

Why does english speedway always come up in every topic about SGP. All there problems are down to the BSPA,the promoters,the stupid rules. The list is endless and this is why top riders dont want to ride in the UK. The SGP is diamond compared to how uk speedway is run but then again so is a dogs turd.

Who knows what would of happened if BSI had not bought the rights to SGP ? Could of been better or far worse.

[stratton]

The SGP is the best thing to happen to speedway end of storey. Yes there are several areas which need inprovement as i have said before and it should of moved on in last few years. I have been very critical of them lately and there staff.If you compare SGP to ama supercross which is the closest 2 wheel indoor sport the prize money is very much the same.

Riders do generally want to be in the gp and be world champion. The sponsors pay more for a gp rider than non gp for coverage. They need to sell themselves a lot better.

The problem is there are riders who have no chance of winning and it may cost them to compete but this is like mx1 motocross. ( no prize or start money at all )

Pepe is out as he knows he is not good enough and his increased sponsorship will be lost in polish earnings being down due to one rider rule.

Ward is young enough to miss a year, he has the sponsorship to do SGP if he wanted to but another year out wont hurt, unless he gets injured and couldnt compete in the future then he may have regrets.

Why does english speedway always come up in every topic about SGP. All there problems are down to the BSPA,the promoters,the stupid rules. The list is endless and this is why top riders dont want to ride in the UK. The SGP is diamond compared to how uk speedway is run but then again so is a dogs turd.

Who knows what would of happened if BSI had not bought the rights to SGP ? Could of been better or far worse.

Cant agree with that,i think the gps have alot of hard work ahead because i dont things look that rosy.The thing that annoys me is that it seems the gps are the be all and end all.That has affected the league structure bigtime i no stupid rules ect hasnt helped.As long as the gps are hear i never really see the leagues regrouping and prospering again.i was looking back on dvd and Dave lanning said michael lee winning the title in 1980 could be worth up to 100 000 to him this is in 1980.So if the series is in great shape where does the money go ive no idea.

[Cockney Rebel]

Speedway is first and foremost a TEAM sport. Without the leagues there would be no Speedway. This is unlike any other motor sport so to compare it to Motocross, MotoGP, Superbikes or any form of motor racing is wrong. The riders earn their living racing in the leagues, they are not paid by Honda, Kawasaki, Ferrari or whoever, to race once a fortnight and spend the rest of the time developing the car or bike for the manufacturer, if they don’t race they don’t get paid. So the leagues must come first. The FIM and some supporters think that Speedway could be run along those lines but it can’t happen. With some riders opting out of the GPs it’s obvious that something is wrong. The GPs have grown to such an extent that they are now impacting the leagues. We have Poland limiting GP riders forcing some to make a choice between a regular pay packet or a chance to be World Champion. My fear is that as the GPs grow only the riders with big sponsors or wealthy parents will be able to compete in them leaving other, possibly more talented, riders to race solely in the leagues, effectively having two separate sports World Championship Speedway and League Speedway. If this happens how, will the GP riders stay race fit? Most riders say you need to race regularly to stay sharp, racing once a fortnight isn’t the answer. Also how will the league riders break into the World Championship if they think it’s going to cost too much and they can’t recoup their outlay by racing in the league? You will have riders racing two or three times a week in the leagues and riders riding once a fortnight in the GPs over the course of a season or two the better riders would surely be the league riders and that would surely damage the status of the World Championship.

 

I have been a Speedway follower for forty eight years and have to say I much preferred the old one off system to decide the world champion, 40,000 people at Cardiff cannot compare to 90,000 at Wembley and knowing the Champion will be crowned that night and not a couple of months down the line, but am realistic enough to realise those days are gone and the GPs are here to stay. When they were first introduced there were six GPs a year, no riders pulled out or complained about the cost and they had minimal effect on the leagues why can’t we go back to that?

[stratton]

Speedway is first and foremost a TEAM sport. Without the leagues there would be no Speedway. This is unlike any other motor sport so to compare it to Motocross, MotoGP, Superbikes or any form of motor racing is wrong. The riders earn their living racing in the leagues, they are not paid by Honda, Kawasaki, Ferrari or whoever, to race once a fortnight and spend the rest of the time developing the car or bike for the manufacturer, if they don’t race they don’t get paid. So the leagues must come first. The FIM and some supporters think that Speedway could be run along those lines but it can’t happen. With some riders opting out of the GPs it’s obvious that something is wrong. The GPs have grown to such an extent that they are now impacting the leagues. We have Poland limiting GP riders forcing some to make a choice between a regular pay packet or a chance to be World Champion. My fear is that as the GPs grow only the riders with big sponsors or wealthy parents will be able to compete in them leaving other, possibly more talented, riders to race solely in the leagues, effectively having two separate sports World Championship Speedway and League Speedway. If this happens how, will the GP riders stay race fit? Most riders say you need to race regularly to stay sharp, racing once a fortnight isn’t the answer. Also how will the league riders break into the World Championship if they think it’s going to cost too much and they can’t recoup their outlay by racing in the league? You will have riders racing two or three times a week in the leagues and riders riding once a fortnight in the GPs over the course of a season or two the better riders would surely be the league riders and that would surely damage the status of the World Championship.

 

I have been a Speedway follower for forty eight years and have to say I much preferred the old one off system to decide the world champion, 40,000 people at Cardiff cannot compare to 90,000 at Wembley and knowing the Champion will be crowned that night and not a couple of months down the line, but am realistic enough to realise those days are gone and the GPs are here to stay. When they were first introduced there were six GPs a year, no riders pulled out or complained about the cost and they had minimal effect on the leagues why can’t we go back to that?

Be great if you were right,and the minimal affect on the leagues happened again.Ihave been watching since 1969 ,i loved the one off finals.i would love to know if many of the gp lovers are in our age group.ive never really taken to it,can remember watching the berger grand prix,s in the 70s and were bored of them to.

[iris123]

Be great if you were right,and the minimal affect on the leagues happened again.Ihave been watching since 1969 ,i loved the one off finals.i would love to know if many of the gp lovers are in our age group.ive never really taken to it,can remember watching the berger grand prix,s in the 70s and were bored of them to.

Been watching speedway since early to mid 60s.Only ever went to two World Finals(Wembley 75 + Bradford 85?).Been to at least twice as many GPs