Humphrey Appleby Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Mind you, I'm still not convinced a UK City Mayor for any of the cities listed who would get any electoral advantage from running on a platform of spending public money on professional Football either. I suspect contrary to the suggestion, the reasons for the ousting of Polish mayors are much more complex than simply losing a GP. However, it really depends on how Polish councils are funded. If they're directly taxpayer funded, then effectively spending someone elses' money is undoubtedly very popular. In the UK though, a significant percentage of council money is raised from local ratepayers, many of whom might be less keen on spending their own money. In general though, the UK media/public is much more paranoid about 'waste' than in some countries, to the extent that it's very hard to persuade the public of the need to speculate to accumulate sometimes. In general though, I don't believe tax/rate-payers should be spending significant money on speedway GPs because they're simply too insignificant to generate a lot of spin-off for their local economies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) Polish speedway doesn't enjoy as high a profile in Poland as popularly believed. Football and even basketball are probably higher, although it's fair to say that speedway is still more successful in comparison to Britain. You only have to look at the speedway venues over there though to see the level of investment that goes into Polish Speedway. According to people who have been, a polish league meeting is something to behold and is akin to going to a rugby or football match in the UK. The Poles have created a model that pulls in the riders, riders want to be part of it. The GP's have created a model that pulls in the riders, not so much now, as Poland seems to be the greater draw. UK speedway is just a hindrance to the big riders and a training ground for foreign nationals, most seem to come through loyalty rather than a need. This level is just about affordable for promotions in the UK. Perhaps the new Belle Vue stadium will give the BSPA the confidence and knowledge it needs to start doing more stadia on similar lines in other cities across the country. Better facilities will pull in a higher profile clientèle. Edited October 30, 2011 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 One off final or GP series? Let's not forget the riders POV, after all they are what the whole thing is about. I'd suggest they'd vote for the series. Also since the series started, I've not heard too many complaints about the overall winner each season. Go back to one off and run the risk of the consistently best rider in the season not being world champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 One off final or GP series? Let's not forget the riders POV, after all they are what the whole thing is about. I'd suggest they'd vote for the series. Also since the series started, I've not heard too many complaints about the overall winner each season. Go back to one off and run the risk of the consistently best rider in the season not being world champion. Can have both couldnt we wont happen now but could do in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) According to people who have been, a polish league meeting is something to behold and is akin to going to a rugby or football match in the UK. Speedway, whilst drawing decent crowds, is quite a regional thing in Poland. It's probably more akin to rugby league - important to people in the north of England, but of little consequence to anyone else. Polish speedway has the biggest average crowds of any sport in Poland, but its aggregate crowds are much lower than for football. By comparison, the Rugby Six Nations now has the highest average crowds of any sport in the world, but it would be ridiculous to claim it's the most popular sport in the world or even the UK on the basis of 15 matches. Even in terms of media coverage, I'd say basketball gets much more than speedway in Poland. Edited October 30, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 FURROW Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'm really surprised that he has felt the need to come on here and say how unhappy he is though, I'd have thought an international promoting company like IMG would have allayed his disappointment in some way by now? This GP series has brought more negatives than positives though! I don't think it has brought any positives in fact! Your loving all this ain't you I just hope you have plenty of spare time on your hands because slagging off the GP series could turn into a full time job for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 2004 was full of interest and excitement, but I suppose you had to be there, and I take it you weren't. I must admit I enjoy the GPs almost as much for the party atmosphere and bonhomie amongst Fans, friends old and new meeting up in foreign lands etc, as the racing, but then my glass is invariably half-full. I was there mate in 2004 Gp was good but it was the first time I had the pleasure of meeting your good self . Lol happy days lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Your loving all this ain't you I just hope you have plenty of spare time on your hands because slagging off the GP series could turn into a full time job for you It would be wrong to say I'm not Never mind eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I wonder if Mr Rising can can offer some insight into one aspect of the GP wildcard issue. I just wondered what the actual process is for the decision making. Both in normal years and, more especially, in these extraordinary times. Is it decided upon by just one individual or do BSI form some sort of committee to discuss options. Just what is the 'speedway' input into these deliberations and how or by whom is this provided. Ole Olsen, Tony Olsson, you?? Actually, I do appreciate, that for most years the choices have almost made themselves despite all the talk on forums like this that have made them into minor controversies every year. BUT it would seem that this year we are going into very different territory. We may, if reports are to be believed, be seeing multiple 'opt outs' by qualified, next in line or 'obvious choice' men for places. And that the choice of wildcards are moving into farcical areas of having to go for the lesser of some pretty evil choices. Relative no-hoper who just happened to be next in the qualifying meeting VERSUS tired old has beens or NEVER wills VERSUS random meeting by meeting men who cannot take part in the season long title chase. I mean the just the mere thought of NICHOLLS gives me a headache. I've said before that on the GP pro v GP anti debate I definitely am pro the GP; but these matters are testing the faith. And the resolution will need to be judged well. And I was asking out of genuine interest NOT to make mischief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I wonder if Mr Rising can can offer some insight into one aspect of the GP wildcard issue. I just wondered what the actual process is for the decision making. Both in normal years and, more especially, in these extraordinary times. Is it decided upon by just one individual or do BSI form some sort of committee to discuss options. Just what is the 'speedway' input into these deliberations and how or by whom is this provided. Ole Olsen, Tony Olsson, you?? Actually, I do appreciate, that for most years the choices have almost made themselves despite all the talk on forums like this that have made them into minor controversies every year. BUT it would seem that this year we are going into very different territory. We may, if reports are to be believed, be seeing multiple 'opt outs' by qualified, next in line or 'obvious choice' men for places. And that the choice of wildcards are moving into farcical areas of having to go for the lesser of some pretty evil choices. Relative no-hoper who just happened to be next in the qualifying meeting VERSUS tired old has beens or NEVER wills VERSUS random meeting by meeting men who cannot take part in the season long title chase. I mean the just the mere thought of NICHOLLS gives me a headache. I've said before that on the GP pro v GP anti debate I definitely am pro the GP; but these matters are testing the faith. And the resolution will need to be judged well. And I was asking out of genuine interest NOT to make mischief WILD cards are chosen after discussions between representatives of BSI and the FIM, including Tony Olsson, Ole Olsen and Roy Otto, Director of the CCP. I agree that at this particular moment it is a tough decision, not because they are spoilt for choice but exactly the opposite. Darcy Ward was the obvious candidate outside of those who competed this year but he was practically alone. Hopefully within the near future the number of suitable riders will increase as some young Poles, Danes, Swedes and, indeed, Aussies further their careers and, as stated earlier, perhaps Tai Woffinden will grow into the role. In the not too distant future we are likely to see Tomasz Gollob and Greg Hancock retire from the SGP scene and speedway as a whole and the SGP in particular desperately needs some of the young talent to step up to the plates we enter a new era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I agree that at this particular moment it is a tough decision, not because they are spoilt for choice but exactly the opposite. Darcy Ward was the obvious candidate outside of those who competed this year but he was practically alone. And what about the reports that the FIM through their member associations is threatening bans for riders who don't accept places in the SGP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 And what about the reports that the FIM through their member associations is threatening bans for riders who don't accept places in the SGP? DON'T know for sure but that could open a legal can of worms unless they have officially entered and signed. Do know that the FIM have been exploring the legality of Poland's one GP rider per team regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 WILD cards are chosen after discussions between representatives of BSI and the FIM, including Tony Olsson, Ole Olsen and Roy Otto, Director of the CCP. I agree that at this particular moment it is a tough decision, not because they are spoilt for choice but exactly the opposite. Darcy Ward was the obvious candidate outside of those who competed this year but he was practically alone. A slightly Ango-centric view. Polish and Swedish form would put Grigori Laguta up there with Ward, but his absence from the World Cup must count against him (with some justification I think). I guess this is going to come down to politics, with BSI and the FIM sitting down together to try and work out how to compel the riders they want to compete in the GP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 DON'T know for sure but that could open a legal can of worms unless they have officially entered and signed. Do know that the FIM have been exploring the legality of Poland's one GP rider per team regulation. how would any legal action againt the country that bank roll the sgp be worth while. cant really see this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) WILD cards are chosen after discussions between representatives of BSI and the FIM, including Tony Olsson, Ole Olsen and Roy Otto, Director of the CCP. I agree that at this particular moment it is a tough decision, not because they are spoilt for choice but exactly the opposite. Darcy Ward was the obvious candidate outside of those who competed this year but he was practically alone. Hopefully within the near future the number of suitable riders will increase as some young Poles, Danes, Swedes and, indeed, Aussies further their careers and, as stated earlier, perhaps Tai Woffinden will grow into the role. As I was saying, except for the perreniel 'which Brit do we gift a place to' question the discussion of the various representatives could have been over and done within about ten minutes ... in previous years. And Darcy would have been at the top of everyone's wildcard wishlist but that is without this new phenomonen; that ACTUAL world title aspirants (as opposed to the aformentioned no hopers) actually have a very reasonable argument AGAINST the taking of a GP place. Add in your own valid point about the oldsters and the lack of adequate replacements looks a bit pitiful doesn't it? That's why this current deliberation, especially if it results in completely new thinking regarding wildcards, should go beyond that rather narrow clique you mention. Yes, is would seem that Darcy was like a 'thumb in a Dyke' .... remove him from coming in and the whole system suddenly looks a lot more fragile than if he'd just accepted the damn place, or felt in a postion to do so. Edited November 1, 2011 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I guess this is going to come down to politics, with BSI and the FIM sitting down together to try and work out how to compel the riders they want to compete in the GP The bottom line though, is that you can't force uncontracted riders to ride for you even if you're the FIM, and certainly not if they're paying less than someone else. If this leads to the current status-quo being called into question, then all the better for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 The bottom line though, is that you can't force uncontracted riders to ride for you even if you're the FIM, and certainly not if they're paying less than someone else. If this leads to the current status-quo being called into question, then all the better for it. But if the FIM were to get more influence over the running of the main national leagues (and I have seen it suggested that they are angling for this) then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) But if the FIM were to get more influence over the running of the main national leagues (and I have seen it suggested that they are angling for this) then what? I'm suggesting the opposite. Unless the FIM and IMG are willing and able to pay competitive money, then it's the national leagues that should be calling the shots. Quite honestly, I think international speedway should be run a consortium of the professional leagues, whether that's under the FIM umbrella or independently. They should be coordinating fixtures and running or contracting the SGP and SWC for their own benefit. Edited November 1, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 how would any legal action againt the country that bank roll the sgp be worth while. cant really see this happening. DON'T be so sure .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Oh yes,the FIM are feeling a bit cocky now after giving Polski Zuzel a bloody nose over the silencer affair.I can see them dancing around doing the Ali shuffle now Lets get ready to rumbleeee Edited November 1, 2011 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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