Speedway Gp In Tatters !

[Dave_minall]

I can't believe people are still tarting about the idea of the old world final making a comeback. Talk until you're blue in the face, it will never happen. Deal with what we have because talking about how you can't cope with change won't alter the current system one iota.

[stratton]

I can't believe people are still tarting about the idea of the old world final making a comeback. Talk until you're blue in the face, it will never happen. Deal with what we have because talking about how you can't cope with change won't alter the current system one iota.

Is it change thats benefited british speedway as a whole, not so sure some people dont seem to realize clubs are really struggling.Change is ok but do i think british speedway as a whole has got stronger no i dont.actually the elite league is pretty average,

[Grand Central]

BUT times have changed and as I said, it's all in the eye of the beholder. There were many, many great meetings under the old system but most of those you have mentioned were qualifying rounds and not the World Final itself. In essence PC winning his first big title (European Championship) was like winning a round of the SGP. But I respect your view, we are not all the same which helps to make the world go round. But the fact is that the wold style championship had become unsustainable in the modern era.

 

I stand to be corrected about the 1974 WF but I don't remember it being anywhere near as wet as 1977 when PC lost out to Ivan Mauger.

 

Absolutely ... 1977 versus 1974 for wetness ... 1977 wins!

 

I was not decrying the GPs at any point, quite the reverse.

 

But Ullevi happens to be a bit of a leveller, doesn't it. It's one of those places that SHOULD show the best of world speedway but it actually never has, has it?

 

It is not a particularly good example of how the old system was bad any more than it is a good example of how the modern way is any better.

 

Goodness know why BSI keep going back! It's dreadful!

 

But having said that 1974, 1977, 1980, 1984 AND 1991 I was there every year, thoroughly enjoyed my stay in the city including Saturday/Sunday at Liseberg ... but funnily enough I haven't set foot in the place since the GPs took over.

 

I just find it interesting that you chose '74 as an example of the nadir of World Finals. As a modern-day lover of GPs that is the one place that would never get me to leave my seat in front of Nige and Kelv to see a live GP, yet it always drew me to travel to a world final at the place. Funny that, isn't it?

Edited October 29, 2011 by Grand Central

[HenryW]

The World Final was always staged in September though, so taking the Nordic round is a better example of "had it been a one-off World Final". Had that been the case the winner would have been... Greg Hancock!

Just to be pedantic, the last 4 One off World Finals were all held in August. Since 1980 it was always held on the last weekend in August or first weekend in September, with the exception of the last ever one which was held on the 20th of August.

 

That means the Torun GP is maybe more appropriately timed. At least Greg would have still been in a run off for the title in that one

Edited October 29, 2011 by HenryW

[Humphrey Appleby]

So SVEMO receive their money direct from BSI from hiring of the stadia in Sweden?

 

Don't think it works that way. The local organisers pay a staging fee to IMG/BSI for the 'right' to host a GP, but get to keep the gate money and presumably other ancillary income such as refreshments etc.

 

The staging fee is reputedly quite high, so looking at the reported crowd figures for many GPs, it's difficult to see how many host tracks are actually able to turn a profit. However, I think Malilla tends to pretty much sell out, and the local organisers probably have very little in the way of expenses as it's permanent track and Swedish tracks also tend to be leased from local authorities for a peppercorn rent. I'd guess that's why they're able to make a surplus.

 

I could be wrong, but I thought Gothenburg was one of the GPs that IMG/BSI promotes themselves, so the poor crowd numbers and higher expenses are less of an issue.

 

For the smaller GPs, one would think they rely heavily on sponsorship from local authorities and fund-raising to make ends meet. Local authorities are presumably willing to put money up in order to attract tourists who'll spend money in their city, although it's difficult to think the likes of Daugavpils and Krsko would ever develop into masss tourist destinations...

[Humphrey Appleby]

Whilst I did have much more interest in the World Championship when it was run on knockout lines with a one-off World Final, I think it's unrealistic to expect that it would revert to that format today. The need for television and sponsorship money is now much more significant now than then, and that needs to have some sort of regular series.

 

Nevertheless, there should be a more equitable distribution of the proceeds from such a series, to riders and to the grassroots of the sport.

[Grand Central]

I could be wrong, but I thought Gothenburg was one of the GPs that IMG/BSI promotes themselves, so the poor crowd numbers and higher expenses are less of an issue.

 

For the smaller GPs, one would think they rely heavily on sponsorship from local authorities and fund-raising to make ends meet. Local authorities are presumably willing to put money up in order to attract tourists who'll spend money in their city, although it's difficult to think the likes of Daugavpils and Krsko would ever develop into masss tourist destinations...

 

Yes, the rather ubiquitous and yet so incongruous appearence of TORUN and LESZNO on race jackets at GPs in other countries for the last couple of years is, I think, testomony to this funding mechanism.

 

Goodness knows what the council tax payers (or their equivalent) in these Polish 'tourist' centres feel about their money being spent in this way is rather open to question.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Grand Central

[Humphrey Appleby]

Goodness knows what the council tax payers (or their equivalent) in these Polish 'tourist' centres feel about their money being spent in this way is rather open to question.

 

It's uncertainly not uncommon for councils or other public authorities to provide some sponsorship of events that will lead to money being spent in local hotels, restaurants and the like. Indeed, the appearance of 'Visit Cymru' on the list of SGP sponsors would suggest the UK taxpayer is contributing to the cost of the Cardiff GP in some way.

 

However, one would hope these bodies have done their sums when it comes to the amount reputedly being paid by Leszno for the privilege of staging their GP...

[PHILIPRISING]

Yes, the rather ubiquitous and yet so incongruous appearence of TORUN and LESZNO on race jackets at GPs in other countries for the last couple of years is, I think, testomony to this funding mechanism.

 

Goodness knows what the council tax payers (or their equivalent) in these Polish 'tourist' centres feel about their money being spent in this way is rather open to question.

 

THE Mayor of Bydgoszcz was voted out of office largely, we are told, because the city lost its GP status. The new mayor of Daugavpils is desperate to get the GP back. The mayors of Torun and Gorzow are heavily involved. I think you misunderstand the prestige enjoyed by these Polish cities being associated with the GPs. There is massive political capital to be gained.

 

The city of Gothenburg is now actively involved, anxious not to lose the GP like other sporting events in Sweden to Stockholm.

[Grand Central]

THE Mayor of Bydgoszcz was voted out of office largely, we are told, because the city lost its GP status. The new mayor of Daugavpils is desperate to get the GP back. The mayors of Torun and Gorzow are heavily involved. I think you misunderstand the prestige enjoyed by these Polish cities being associated with the GPs. There is massive political capital to be gained.

 

The city of Gothenburg is now actively involved, anxious not to lose the GP like other sporting events in Sweden to Stockholm.

 

That is good for the GP, no doubt.

 

It is just difficult to appreciate that the people of these cities actually approve of this way of spending public money ... it would be a very difficult sell for a directly elected UK City Mayor, wouldn't it?

It is only unelected QANGOS in the UK that can get away with doing this sort of thing isn't it?

Edited October 29, 2011 by Grand Central

[BigFatDave]

You mention the 1974 Final held in the pouring rain at Gothenburg of all places.

Yes it wasn't good but for goodness sake NONE of the GPs held at that place have been any good either have they?

2004 was full of interest and excitement, but I suppose you had to be there, and I take it you weren't.

 

I must admit I enjoy the GPs almost as much for the party atmosphere and bonhomie amongst Fans, friends old and new meeting up in foreign lands etc, as the racing, but then my glass is invariably half-full.

[PHILIPRISING]

That is good for the GP, no doubt.

 

It is just difficult to appreciate that the people of these cities actually approve of this way of spending public money ... it would be a very difficult sell for a directly elected UK City Mayor, wouldn't it?

It is only unelected QANGOS in the UK that can get away with doing this sort of thing isn't it?

 

YOU simply cannot compare speedway's status in the UK to that in Poland. Places like Leszno, Torun, Gorzow, Bydgoszcz and Zielona Gora are fanatical speedway cities. Their speedway clubs are much more akin to soccer clubs in places like Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool.

 

Mayors in Poland know the political capital to be gained by supporting speedway, whether it be with the construction of new stadiums or hosting a SGP round.

[The Know]

YOU simply cannot compare speedway's status in the UK to that in Poland. Places like Leszno, Torun, Gorzow, Bydgoszcz and Zielona Gora are fanatical speedway cities. Their speedway clubs are much more akin to soccer clubs in places like Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool.

 

Mayors in Poland know the political capital to be gained by supporting speedway, whether it be with the construction of new stadiums or hosting a SGP round.

 

from a sponsors point of veiw i would say 2011 has been the worst year. i have always been on the sgp side but after sweden i have my doudts. very poor.

[Trees]

from a sponsors point of veiw i would say 2011 has been the worst year. i have always been on the sgp side but after sweden i have my doudts. very poor.

That's pretty damning, how can you put a positive side to that one Mr Rising?

[PHILIPRISING]

That's pretty damning, how can you put a positive side to that one Mr Rising?

 

IF memory serves me correct Meridian Lifts were the sponsors of the rain-affected meeting in Gothenburg and obviously, judging by Andy's comments, he wasn't satisfied but I doubt whether he can speak for all the other sponsors throughout the year. I do know companies like Nice and Doodson were very pleased with their involvement and in these tough economic times I would image BSI/IMG were satisfied overall.

[Deano]

That is good for the GP, no doubt.

 

It is just difficult to appreciate that the people of these cities actually approve of this way of spending public money ...

 

Speculate to accumulate, the private sector do it why shouldn't the public sector. Perhaps the BSPA should look at the workings of the Polish model and look at the reasons why they have managed to keep speedway up in the top three sports. Instead the BSPA would rather concentrate on their own little world/club and continue to in-fight damaging the sport for years to come.

 

The BSPA/British speedway fans should look closer to home as to the reasons for the state of UK speedway rather than blaming the GP series and a forward thinking international promoting company for it's failings.

[Grand Central]

YOU simply cannot compare speedway's status in the UK to that in Poland. Places like Leszno, Torun, Gorzow, Bydgoszcz and Zielona Gora are fanatical speedway cities. Their speedway clubs are much more akin to soccer clubs in places like Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool.

 

Mayors in Poland know the political capital to be gained by supporting speedway, whether it be with the construction of new stadiums or hosting a SGP round.

 

Yes, that's why I specifically said such action/reaction was difficult to appreciate from a UK perspective.

 

Mind you, I'm still not convinced a UK City Mayor for any of the cities listed who would get any electoral advantage from running on a platform of spending public money on professional Football either. Despite what your analogy suggests. The Polish voters really are different.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Grand Central

[Trees]

IF memory serves me correct Meridian Lifts were the sponsors of the rain-affected meeting in Gothenburg and obviously, judging by Andy's comments, he wasn't satisfied but I doubt whether he can speak for all the other sponsors throughout the year

I'm really surprised that he has felt the need to come on here and say how unhappy he is though, I'd have thought an international promoting company like IMG would have allayed his disappointment in some way by now?

The BSPA/British speedway fans should look closer to home as to the reasons for the state of UK speedway rather than blaming the GP series and a forward thinking international promoting company for it's failings.

This GP series has brought more negatives than positives though! I don't think it has brought any positives in fact!

[Deano]

 

This GP series has brought more negatives than positives though! I don't think it has brought any positives in fact!

 

I agree it hasn't helped at all. IMG/BSI looking after their own interests... perhaps they went to the BSPA school of speedway to learn the craft.

 

The rider shortage it generates over here can only be blamed on the BSPA, they should have hatched a plan to fast track youngsters rather than rely on cheap imports that don't give a flying fig about UK speedway. With Wizzer now in place hopefully things are looking up, but it will take time and patience.. 20 years perhaps before we will see any real benefits. Will the BSPA stick to it though?

[Humphrey Appleby]

Perhaps the BSPA should look at the workings of the Polish model and look at the reasons why they have managed to keep speedway up in the top three sports.

The BSPA/British speedway fans should look closer to home as to the reasons for the state of UK speedway rather than blaming the GP series and a forward thinking international promoting company for it's failings.

 

Polish speedway doesn't enjoy as high a profile in Poland as popularly believed. Football and even basketball are probably higher, although it's fair to say that speedway is still more successful in comparison to Britain.

 

It's also true that British speedway has been poorly run for a long time, and has really no-one to blame but itself for the predicament it finds itself in. However, you simply can't replicate what the Poles or Swedes do because their external factors are so different. For example, Sweden is a lightly populated country and local authorities are happy to lease land for tracks at little cost. Poland also has more public support in terms of provision of stadiums and in some case team funding, plus of course Poland has nothing like the same competition in terms of other sports within the country.

 

By contrast, British speedway is largely held in venues that are commercially run, which receive no public subsidy, and are themselves competing with other land uses. The sport itself also has to compete with football, rugby union, rugby league, cricket, quite aside from all the other sports shown on television.

 

The other point is that running a league is completely different to running a Grand Prix series. Running 11-12 meetings a season is a completely different to running several hundred, especially when you have everything in your favour such as choice of dates and riders. British speedway does not have that benefit and never will because it's an entirely different thing.

 

Perhaps you don't care if the SGP is your thing, but in truth the SGP and league racing is complementary. For all the hype, you certainly couldn't have the SGP without the leagues, not least because riders wouldn't be able to afford to do the SGP. Equally it could be argued that SGP is showcase for the leagues, although in my view the benefits have yet to be realised in this direction.