Speedway Gp In Tatters !

[Midland Red]

Would speedway still be around at it's current size if the GP's didn't attract the TV audience it does? The GP's have given speedway some incredible television exposure, which surely has some kind of effect on local gates? Perhaps your team could be dead and buried in the defunct section or you could be paying more for the privilege of watching your team with fewer friends.

 

You are assuming that the effect on local gates is positive - perhaps it is negative as armchair viewers stay away from the local tracks, particularly bearing in mind the changes necessary to the regular pattern of race-nights to accommodate GPs (practice and event)

[Midland Red]

SPEEDWAY Star's post-GP sales don't vary at all and as we add 16 pages to every edition the week after a GP (at a cost of around £1,600) it has no financial benefit.

 

I am a fan of the GP because I think through originally John Postlethwaite and now IMG the level of professionalism and presentation puts speedway's premier event on a par with any other sporting occasion.

 

It is impossible to equate some of the benefits of the SGP series right down to your local track but it is up to the BSPA and its members to do that. SVEMO use revenue gleaned from the SGP to filter down to invest at lower levels rather than reducing the cost of entry or the price of a programme which is what you appear to want.

 

There is no doubt that many young riders are attracted to speedway because of the SGP, they aspire to race on big occasions in big stadiums and on television around the world. It is these riders who eventually put bums on seats and help provide the revenue at tracks everywhere. Sadly that may not be as true in Britain as it is in many other countries but you cannot blame the SGP for that.

 

Of course IMG are in it to make money but they make huge investments in the SGP infrastructure and take a long term view which is something that was lacking in the past.

 

I make no apology about canvassing for the SGP because I see it as something speedway can be proud of rather than embarrassed about.

 

 

Sorry Mr Rising, but

 

1 if you cannot equate the benefits, can you at least identify them ?

 

2 do you really believe there are MANY attracted to the sport because of the GP ?

 

Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy watching the GPs (at Cardiff and on TV) but in their present guise they are surely no longer worthy of creating a World Champion - a GP Champion, maybe - but with the 8 automatic qualifiers (from previous year's position), up to (by the look of things) 5 wildcards, the geographical disparity in the share-out of GP venues (how many in Poland???) surely they can only create a GP Champion, and there should be a World Championship Final as well

[Grand Central]

 

I make no apology about canvassing for the SGP because I see it as something speedway can be proud of rather than embarrassed about.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Like lots of other retro products and nostalgic delights of the seventies and eighties I love to look back at those times. They were great. At the time.

 

But time has moved on. There is no going back.

 

The Grand Prix system (under BSI/IMG or their inevitable successors) is the present and future of world Class speedway. We need to make sure that is works. And works very well.

 

And I don't want to be too over-dramatic but this present situation with riders turning down places seems a bit of a crisis for me.

 

The system of the top eight from last year plus three Challenge qualifiers and four permanent wild cards seemed to be a good balance.

 

But that is now being dismantled not by the FIM, not by BSI but by the Polish league. And it's not in the interests of speedway or the World Championship at all, is it?

 

The indiviual wild card at each round may have helped some attendances and was useful for the appearence of Darcy and Thomas H. But beyond that, it was already a bit of a tired 'add-on'. Most of them are fairly ho-hopers.

We surely cannot cope with yet more 'one-offs' who offer nothing to the quest to be World Champion at all. An extra one, two or even five (!) meeting by meeting wild cards would just look silly, wouldn't it?

 

You've also got to wonder about some of the men in the middle ranking of the GP who take up their qualified place or wild card as offered and who are willing to forgoe the 'Polish Shilling' for World Championship hopes. How are they going to feel about the riders who have turned down guarenteed places to take the big money and then get the chance of coming back as 'guests' without all the attendant costs and trouble that the season-long guys have put up.

 

A little division in the ranks will occur, surely?

Edited October 28, 2011 by Grand Central

[Dekker]

The fact of the matter is, the GP system itself is not the one to blame here, its league racing that is treading on it's toes that is the problem

LOL, what a joke.

 

The issue BSI are going to have to address is the fact the riders don't really make that much money out of riding in GP's, of any 16 riders in a GP only 2 or 3 are genuine contenders, the rest spend large amounts of money to just make up the numbers. Maybe in the recession the riders who realistically will never be WC are questioning the worth of the investment.

[The Know]

SPEEDWAY Star's post-GP sales don't vary at all and as we add 16 pages to every edition the week after a GP (at a cost of around £1,600) it has no financial benefit.

 

I am a fan of the GP because I think through originally John Postlethwaite and now IMG the level of professionalism and presentation puts speedway's premier event on a par with any other sporting occasion.

 

It is impossible to equate some of the benefits of the SGP series right down to your local track but it is up to the BSPA and its members to do that. SVEMO use revenue gleaned from the SGP to filter down to invest at lower levels rather than reducing the cost of entry or the price of a programme which is what you appear to want.

 

There is no doubt that many young riders are attracted to speedway because of the SGP, they aspire to race on big occasions in big stadiums and on television around the world. It is these riders who eventually put bums on seats and help provide the revenue at tracks everywhere. Sadly that may not be as true in Britain as it is in many other countries but you cannot blame the SGP for that.

 

Of course IMG are in it to make money but they make huge investments in the SGP infrastructure and take a long term view which is something that was lacking in the past.

 

I make no apology about canvassing for the SGP because I see it as something speedway can be proud of rather than embarrassed about.

 

i agree on most points. the bsi do a pretty good job but need to inprove in some areas, staff! and i dont mean you before you ask

 

people harp on about british speedway and what the sgp has done or or not done for it. i would say more it has proven more positive than negative to the uk.

 

reason british speedway is in its dieing state is. crap bspa, bent promoters, rubbish sadiums generally and really no idea were in 2011 and not 1950.

 

yes sgp not perfect by long way but uk speedway, pikey is maybe the word just look at coventry now.

[PHILIPRISING]

Sorry Mr Rising, but

 

1 if you cannot equate the benefits, can you at least identify them ?

 

2 do you really believe there are MANY attracted to the sport because of the GP ?

 

YES ... very much so. Kids come into speedway (as with most sports) dreaming of becoming World Champion. Without that sort of aspiration they will get nowhere. Spend one second with Jason Crump and you will appreciate how the riders have become invigorated with the SGP because it provides them with a massive stage on which to perform.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy watching the GPs (at Cardiff and on TV) but in their present guise they are surely no longer worthy of creating a World Champion - a GP Champion, maybe - but with the 8 automatic qualifiers (from previous year's position), up to (by the look of things) 5 wildcards, the geographical disparity in the share-out of GP venues (how many in Poland???) surely they can only create a GP Champion, and there should be a World Championship Final as well

 

DON'T see it that way at all. No different to F1 or many other sports, not just the motorised variety.

[PHILIPRISING]

LOL, what a joke.

 

The issue BSI are going to have to address is the fact the riders don't really make that much money out of riding in GP's, of any 16 riders in a GP only 2 or 3 are genuine contenders, the rest spend large amounts of money to just make up the numbers. Maybe in the recession the riders who realistically will never be WC are questioning the worth of the investment.

 

YOU cannot judge rider income generated through the SGP by prize money alone.

[Humphrey Appleby]

We live in a commercial world. Do FIFA not make money out of the World Cup?

 

The fundamental difference is that FIFA is 'owned' by the national associations, which are in turn usually usually owned by the local clubs, leagues and associations. Although FIFA is quite clearly a corrupt organisation whose officers undoubtedly have their hands in the till, the point is that the organisation is still run by football for the benefit of football. Millions of pounds still find their way down to grassroots football, which is completely unlike what happens in speedway as far as anyone can determine.

 

Indeed, the ICC Cricket World Cup, IRB Rugby World Cup, and just about every other world cup going are primarily run for the benefit of their sports, not private companies. Yes, it's true that rights to particular events are often sold to private management companies for a guaranteed sum, but that's really not the same thing as the relationship between the FIM and IMG.

 

Of course IMG are in it to make money but they make huge investments in the SGP infrastructure and take a long term view which is something that was lacking in the past.

 

I'm sorry, but just what are these huge investments? I suppose the air fences and temporary tracks cost a bit, but they're not especially large in the grand scheme of things.

 

The stadiums already exist, and for most of the GPs, the local organisers does much of the work and takes the financial risk. I'd guess there are longer term agreements in place for GPs held like the Millenium Stadium and Parken, but I'd imagine most of the money isn't paid a long way up front for these venues and therefore nothing much is lost if IMG/BSI gets its sums wrong and goes bust.

 

BSI/IMG pay a considerable sum of money to the FIM (putting money back into the sport) that they wouldn't otherwise have

 

It's a reasonable argument that IMG/BSI have created wealth that the sport didn't have in the first place, but frankly I don't think they do anything so clever that the existing speedway authorities couldn't have done if they'd had any imagination. When you strip out the hype, they've not raised the profile of the sport much above what it was before, crowds are actually not much better than they were in the late-1980s and early-1990s when World Finals were still held in proper stadiums, the sport hasn't really got much beyond the same old countries, and the riders are still paid pretty much the same (low) amounts.

 

The fact that it's apparently seriously being suggested that the sport's premier event could end-up being a series of glorified open meetings because half of the qualified riders can't afford to ride in it anymore, absolutely sums up how far along BSI and IMG have taken the SGP...

 

I don't blame BSI (and later IMG) for seeing a potential business opportunity, nor do I object to them making modest profits on the running of the competition. However, I do think the terms of their deal with the FIM are little short of scandalous and the sport as a whole is being short-changed regardless of its own incompetence. It's hardly any consolation that IMG seem to throw all the profits away on other ill-conceived ideas of theirs, as it's money that could and should be invested back in speedway.

 

The bottom line is though, I'd have much more sympathy for IMG/BSI profit making if they were actually paying the going rate for their performers. If the SGP was turned into a full-time circus as was suggested more than 10 years ago, and the best riders in the world were able to make a proper living on the back of it, then it would be much harder to have objections.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[Chris Brown]

Would speedway still be around at it's current size if the GP's didn't attract the TV audience it does? The GP's have given speedway some incredible television exposure, which surely has some kind of effect on local gates? Perhaps your team could be dead and buried in the defunct section or you could be paying more for the privilege of watching your team with fewer friends.

 

My team is dead and buried so it didn't help us very much

[Chris Brown]

I am a fan of the GP because I think through originally John Postlethwaite and now IMG the level of professionalism and presentation puts speedway's premier event on a par with any other sporting occasion.

 

I suspect Reading Speedway are one that didn't benefit from this professionalism. He left them high and dry. Fuelled my view at the time that he and his organisation had no care for the sport

[Humphrey Appleby]

No different to F1 or many other sports, not just the motorised variety.

 

Completely different to F1 in that the drivers actually make (a very decent) living in the competition, rather than having to race in national series to do so. In addition, whilst the Bernie Ecclestone-run companies take a very sizeable cut of the profits, both the FIA and the teams are still making millions and millions which is quite different to what FIM is getting out of their relationship with IMG.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Can you confirm whether they apply to the FIM for the income?

 

I'd guess the SVEMO income is derived from the profits made by their hosting of one or both GPs. Very nice for the Swedes if they can make their GP(s) pay, but what the other speedway countries that don't host one? For that matter, how much are the Italians and Croatians benefiting, or the Latvians and Slovenians before them?

[iris123]

I'd guess the SVEMO income is derived from the profits made by their hosting of one or both GPs. Very nice for the Swedes if they can make their GP(s) pay, but what the other speedway countries that don't host one? For that matter, how much are the Italians and Croatians benefiting, or the Latvians and Slovenians before them?

Guess there must have been some benefit or they wouldn't have hosted it or wanted to host it.All down to the local promoter how well it goes to an extent.Seems in Latvia things went wrong.Is that a surprise?

 

The thing is you say others could have done the same job that BSI/IMG have done.The fact is they had years and years of chances and never did....Always easy afterwards to say "I could have done that".Turn back time and i could paint Guernica,start a social network or even see what a great idea 4 guys racing around a dirt track oval on motorbikes would be....No-one wanted to take a risk and i rather think the FIM were all too happy to get some money for a sport they hardly care for......and their officials get to go to some big cities for a weekend rather than Norden

[PHILIPRISING]

Completely different to F1 in that the drivers actually make (a very decent) living in the competition, rather than having to race in national series to do so. In addition, whilst the Bernie Ecclestone-run companies take a very sizeable cut of the profits, both the FIA and the teams are still making millions and millions which is quite different to what FIM is getting out of their relationship with IMG.

 

 

I WAS referring to how they decide their World Championships ... i.e. over a series rather than a single event.

 

If there were millions and millions to be made out of speedway no doubt the FIM would plunder a bigger share of the spoils. But, as said here before, my understanding is that speedway is the second biggest contributor to the FIM coffers.

[Dekker]

YOU cannot judge rider income generated through the SGP by prize money alone.

Who said i could?, but if the trend of declining rider interest continues, then the riders themselves are showing you what the answer is.

 

F1 drivers get paid by the teams to compete or buy a ride, but by and large speedway riders are self employed and have to make money, as the clubs across Europe seem less inclined to stump up apart from a select few the days of free junkets for the FIM/BSI on the backs of riders paid peanuts looks like it might be ending.

 

Completely different to F1 in that the drivers actually make (a very decent) living in the competition, rather than having to race in national series to do so. In addition, whilst the Bernie Ecclestone-run companies take a very sizeable cut of the profits, both the FIA and the teams are still making millions and millions which is quite different to what FIM is getting out of their relationship with IMG.

The FIM are very happy no doubt with BSI, all year round junkets at 5 star hotels for free, whole floors booked out, fine banquets and free travel to europe's capitals at someone else's penny. Edited October 28, 2011 by Dekker

[lucifer sam]

Surely if the Grand Prix riders received thier fair share of the cake, then there would be no problems. The GP riders are massively underpaid - the prize money is a joke.

 

That's why riders are putting Poland first. Even British Speedway pays better than the GPs.

 

All the best

Rob

[Humphrey Appleby]

The thing is you say others could have done the same job that BSI/IMG have done.The fact is they had years and years of chances and never did....Always easy afterwards to say "I could have done that".Turn back time and i could paint Guernica,start a social network or even see what a great idea 4 guys racing around a dirt track oval on motorbikes would be...

 

I don't really think it's comparable to coming-up with the 'next big thing'. Speedway was already well established, crowds weren't as bad as frequently claimed, and the idea of a GP series wasn't anything new. Indeed the GP series was actually in existence for four or five years before BSI got involved.

 

The GP would undoubtedly have happened earlier if the BSPA had been less blinkered, the Poles hadn't been stuck behind the Iron Curtain for years, and if satellite/cable television had been around. Whilst I think Ole Olsen/John Postlethwaite deserve some acknowledgement for actually doing something before anyone else, they didn't do anything particularly clever or innovative, and probably only managed it because of the growing weakness of the BSPA and insularity of the Polish League in that period.

 

Yes, I'd accept there was some financial risk involved in buying into the SGP, but much of the finance seems to have been put-up by Postlethwaite's mates, and the deal with the FIM doesn't appear to have carried massive risk either.

 

With respect to the television and sponsorship deals. I'd have thought that bread-and-butter to any half-competent commercial person who's been around the block. Satellite and cable television was desperate for cheap and easy to produce content around that time, and Sky didn't pay much compared to what they pay for football, cricket and rugby league.

 

I would credit BSI for making their events look a bit more professional compared to other speedway events, but let's be honest, the bar wasn't set very high. And I still remember one GP where BSI's idea of pre-meeting entertainment was some young boy playing an accordian dressed in lederhosen...

[iris123]

 

The FIM are very happy no doubt with BSI, all year round junkets at 5 star hotels for free, whole floors booked out, fine banquets and free travel to europe's capitals at someone else's penny.

Sure there is a long queue outside FIM HQ trying to get the NZ gig.And i can just imagine all the applications for Argentina!!!!! And the amount of online spanish lessons being taken now....Hey Muchachos,where the women at? Oh mines a large one.....Baby you are hotter than an enchilada.....Would you like to tango in my room?....

[iris123]

I would credit BSI for making their events look a bit more professional compared to other speedway events, but let's be honest, the bar wasn't set very high. And I still remember one GP where BSI's idea of pre-meeting entertainment was some young boy playing an accordian dressed in lederhosen...

Damn i missed that.Been years since i have seen anything that good.Been years since i have seen any South Americans playing pan pipe music as well.Where have all the accordian and pan pipe players gone i wondered.......IMG have cornered the market

[Chris Brown]

The FIM are very happy no doubt with BSI, all year round junkets at 5 star hotels for free, whole floors booked out, fine banquets and free travel to europe's capitals at someone else's penny.

 

And i bet the speedway press quite enjoy these jaunts around Europe in these hotels every couple of weeks as well

 

No wonder they like it to

 

SO its just the riders and the fans who are being ripped off then. OK, as long as we understand who the important are in all this