Pre War World Finals Draw Order?

[Robbie B]

I just acquired the heat line-ups of the 1939 World Speedway Final, thank to Speedway News.

 

But how do you work-out which number the riders were drawn at, as they are differnet to modern day speedway meetings.

 

Here is the 1939 World Final draw (red, blue, white, yellow)

 

From 'Speedway News' 2nd September 1939 edition

 

Heat 1 Arthur Atkinson (red), Alec Statham (blue), Frank Varey (white), Eric Collins (yellow)

Heat 2 Jack Parker (red), Wilbur Lamoreaux (blue), Ron Johnson (white), Jack Milne (yellow)

Heat 3 Bill Kitchen (red), Eric Chitty (blue), Eric Langton (white), Lionel Van Praag (yellow)

Heat 4 Benny Kaufman (red), Cordy Milne (blue), Vic Duggan (white), Aub Lawson (yellow)

Heat 5 Alec Statham (red), Jack Parker (blue), Bill Kithcen (white), Benny Kaufman (yellow)

Heat 6 Arthur Atkinson (red), Wilbur Lamoreaux (blue), Eric Chitty (white), Cordy Milne (yellow)

Heat 7 Frank Varey (red), Ron Johnson (blue), Eric Langton (white), Vic Duggan (yellow)

Heat 8 Eric Collins (red), Jack Milne (blue), Lionel Van Praag (white), Aub Lawson (yellow)

Heat 9 Alec Statham (red), Wilbur Lamoreaux (blue), Eric Langton (white), Aub Lawson (yellow)

Heat 10 Arthur Atkinson (red), Jack Parkrer (blue), Lionel Van Praag (white), Vic Duggan (yellow)

Heat 11 Alec Statham (red), Ron Johnson (blue), Lionel Van Praag (white), Cordy Milne (yellow)

Heat 12 Eric Collins (red), Ron Johnson (blue), Eric Chitty (white), Benny Kaufman (yellow)

Heat 13 Frank Varey (red), Jack Milne (blue), Bill Kitchen (white), Cordy Milne (yellow)

Heat 14 Arthur Atkinson (red), Jack Milne (blue), Eric Langton (white), Benny Kaufman (yellow)

Heat 15 Frank Varey (red), Jack Parker (blue), Eric Chitty (white), Aub Lawson (yellow)

Heat 16 Eric Collins (red), Wilbur Lamoreaux (blue), Bill Kitchen (white), Vic Duggan (yellow)

Heat 17 Alec Statham (red), Jack Milne (blue), Eric Chitty (white), Vic Duggan (yellow)

Heat 18 Arthur Atkinson (red), Ron Johnson (blue), Bill Kitchen (white), Aub Lawson (yellow)

Heat 19 Frank Varey (red), Wilbur Lamoreaux (blue), Lionel Van Praag (white), Benny Kaufman (yellow)

Heat 20 Eric Collins (red), Jack Parker (blue), Eric Langton (white), Cordy Milne (yellow)

Edited October 22, 2011 by Robbie B

[chunky]

I'd wondered about that too, but quickly looking at the heats, it does appear to be the same as used in the post-war 16-man individual events. Take the 1936 Final for instance.

 

In a modern event, the rider at no. 5 would be in heats 2, 5, 10, 15, and 20. In the 1936 final, Jack Ormston rode in those exact heats. Perhaps someone else could confirm this?

 

Steve

Edited October 21, 2011 by chunky

[Robbie B]

I'd wondered about that too, but quickly looking at the heats, it does appear to be the same as used in the post-war 16-man individual events. Take the 1936 Final for instance.

 

In a modern event, the rider at no. 5 would be in heats 2, 5, 10, 15, and 20. In the 1936 final, Jack Ormston rode in those exact heats. Perhaps someone else could confirm this?

 

Steve

Thanks for the help

[chunky]

What you have appears to be listed without gate positions, simply going (after heat 4) with the riders in order 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, and 13-16. However, the numbers still correspond to the standard format, which gives us (in riding order) :

 

1 - Alec Statham

2 - Arthur Atkinson

3 - Frank Varey

4 - Eric Collins

5 - Jack Parker

6 - Wilbur Lamoreaux

7 - Ron Johnson

8 - Jack Milne

9 - Bill Kitchen

10 - Eric Chitty

11 - Eric Langton

12 - Lionel Van Praag

13 - Benny Kaufman

14 - Cordy Milne

15 - Vic Duggan

16 - Aub Lawson

 

Steve

[Robbie B]

Thanks for that, but the riders are listed in gate postions red, blue, white and yellow. This is what was printed in the 'Speedway News'

 

Lionel Van Praag does have three races in four heats namely (8, 10 & 11)

[willstaxi]

I think this would have been the line up

 

1 Arthur Atkinson

2 Alec Statham

3 Frank Varey

4 Eric Collins

5 Jack Parker

6 Wilbur Lamoreaux

7 Ron Johnson

8 Jack Milne

9 Bill Kitchen

10 Eric Chitty

11 Eric Langton

12 Lionel Van Praag

13 Benny Kaufman

14 Cordy Milne

15 Vic Duggan

16, Aub Lawson

[Robbie B]

I think this would have been the line up

 

1 Arthur Atkinson

2 Alec Statham

3 Frank Varey

4 Eric Collins

5 Jack Parker

6 Wilbur Lamoreaux

7 Ron Johnson

8 Jack Milne

9 Bill Kitchen

10 Eric Chitty

11 Eric Langton

12 Lionel Van Praag

13 Benny Kaufman

14 Cordy Milne

15 Vic Duggan

16, Aub Lawson

 

 

Many thanks this has been a great help

Edited October 22, 2011 by Robbie B

[willstaxi]

To look at the 1939 final in race card form click link :-

 

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3215578/wf-1939-pdf-october-23-2011-4-42-am-10k?da=y

Edited October 23, 2011 by willstaxi

[Robbie B]

To look at the 1939 final in race card form click link :-

 

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3215578/wf-1939-pdf-october-23-2011-4-42-am-10k?da=y

 

Excellent race card willstaxi.

 

I did notice that you didn't have the reserve riders names. They were 17. Malcolm Craven (4) and 18. Frank Gouldon (3), both of England. Bonus points in brackets, though reserves wouldn't have carried their bonus points to the final.

 

Shame that the meeting wasn't raced. Arthur Atkinson was the favorite.

 

Many thanks

[chunky]

I did notice that you didn't have the reserve riders names. They were 17. Malcolm Craven (4) and 18. Frank Gouldon (3), both of England. Bonus points in brackets, though reserves wouldn't have carried their bonus points to the final.

 

However, you should be aware of the mistakes; it is STATHAM, not Staham, and FRANK (not Franf) GOULDEN (not Gouldon).

 

Shame that the meeting wasn't raced. Arthur Atkinson was the favorite.

 

Still, Cordy Milne would have won it...

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Robbie B]

However, you should be aware of the mistakes; it is STATHAM, not Staham, and FRANK (not Franf) GOULDEN (not Gouldon).

 

 

 

Still, Cordy Milne would have won it...

 

Steve

 

When I sadi that Arthur Atkinson was favourite, I was just mentionong what the press said at the time. I also think that Cordy Milne would have won. Afterall he had the bonus point advantage, and a liking for the Wembley track. But thnanks to Mr. Hitler we'll never know for certain.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Robbie B