manchesterpaul Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Blimey, let's have a minute... A minute for? Hopefully for discussion of the topic. My above was response to a post made with personal insults instead of points being discussed regarding the topic. A further example coming up below. Oh dear, oh dear... I thought you were " far too busy" to spend time on here...You're going well I have to say. Do you post all the crap you do on toilet/comfort breaks? You must take lot's of them then.. I never said i was too busy to enjoy and use the forum. And now on to the rest of your post...... Please take note i'm not getting engaged in 'off-topic attacking the poster and not the post' conversations. There is way too much of it across the forums. It's a very inconsiderate waste of the forum owner's bandwidth, which presumably is not free, to use the forums for abuse, insults or creating and carrying out personal vendetta's and off-topic feuding when it's purpose of being a forum is for speedway discussion. Edited October 12, 2011 by manchesterpaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 but this takes us full circle to if we think IMG are doing a good job or not why do the riders think it is ok to miss qualifiers? along with the cluttered calendar..... it is because if they do badly in them it makes it more difficult for IMG to give them a wildcard......... with the way that IMG do things we can see how this gives them more options............. for instance if Bomber had entered the qualifiers and crashed and burned on top of his dip in GP and league form I think even IMG would have found it difficult to justify giving him a card.............. I do not currently see IMG insisting that riders do the qualifiers Pepe & Bjarne are good examples why IMG need the wildcards.... maybe they have just been unlucky in the past... or maybe they were not prepared enough..... either way they have both had disastrous campaigns historically.... make 3 qualifiers like that and it makes it important that there are wildcards in there who are on the pace or it will be a GP field of two standards I do think IMG are doing a good job ... and especially when we consider what it would most likely be like left to the FIM or another pocket of the speedway fraternity ............. I dont think it is a bad thing to question the way that they do things but it is easy to miss the woods for the trees I think IMG have been a disaster for Speedway. I always thought the F.I.M, A.C.U. and over here the S.C.B. and the B.S.P.A. ran Speedway - not any more they don't. How much/little actual money from IMG's involvement goes back in to the Sport itself?? Do the Riders get a good financial return from being on the GP Circuit - I just wonder after reading some Riders saying that they can't afford to be in it. What sort of a World Championship is that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Do the Riders get a good financial return from being on the GP Circuit - I just wonder after reading some Riders saying that they can't afford to be in it. What sort of a World Championship is that?? From what has been written by World Champions from the past, there has never been a large financial gain directly from the FIM, most of the rewards come in the form of sponsorships. Due to the level of FIM funding, the qualification rounds are not supported by the GP riders as it would prove,for them, to costly to ride. IMO that is more reason to use riders that are prepared to earn their place by the qualification rounds to achieve their ambitions, than ones that wait for hand outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think IMG have been a disaster for Speedway. I always thought the F.I.M, A.C.U. and over here the S.C.B. and the B.S.P.A. ran Speedway - not any more they don't. How much/little actual money from IMG's involvement goes back in to the Sport itself?? Do the Riders get a good financial return from being on the GP Circuit - I just wonder after reading some Riders saying that they can't afford to be in it. What sort of a World Championship is that?? so a couple of questions but no sign of a disaster for speedway? the FIM leased out the GP's to a company who were able to take them to the next level ..... this is clearly seen on GP night both in how they are run and presented........ i'm not an expert in the industry so I couldnt comment on if the money the FIM earn from it is good enough ... or indeed how much of that money the FIM put back into the sport (why would IMG put their money into anything other than running the GP's and SWC?)........... I don't think however, that the contract should have been as long as it is The ACU, SCB and BSPA are good examples of what is going wrong in the sport..... one organisation trying to have nothing to do with the sport.... another being run by BSPA members..... and the BSPA the shambles that it is............... and in the case of the latter lets just consider the commitment towards British riders both domestically and for the international stage................ what was once the way in speedway isnt necessarily wrong, dead and buried WK..... but times have moved on and if you want a good example of what goes wrong between federations when they are left to govern, take a look at silencer issues, KK's swedish silencers and KK's banning from riding for Brum by Tarnow................... I am thankful that a professional outfit is in charge of Speedway's flagship The GP series went from 24 riders to 16 a handful of years ago because those who werent making the sweet sixteen couldnt make it pay and therefore didnt spend enough to get into the sweet sixteen........... We were led to believe that the switch to 16 riders was a successful one ....... if it now has become unsuccessful it can only be down to costs rising at a different rate to prizemoney which has been a theme throughout the sport with carbs, tuners, teams of mechanics etc The bottom line is that we have a very very slick product (no Ole jokes please ) served up by an organisation who unlike a majority in the speedway world, don't allow themselves to look like amateurs........... if there are real concerns over the money earned by the riders i'm sure that either riders will start turning down their GP berths... or that IMG will adapt their model to make it work like they did before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think IMG have been a disaster for Speedway. I always thought the F.I.M, A.C.U. and over here the S.C.B. and the B.S.P.A. ran Speedway - not any more they don't. How much/little actual money from IMG's involvement goes back in to the Sport itself?? Do the Riders get a good financial return from being on the GP Circuit - I just wonder after reading some Riders saying that they can't afford to be in it. What sort of a World Championship is that?? I think IMG have been fantastic for the sport. The GP and SWC are huge box office events, in speedway terms at least, and we are fortunate to be able to see speedway in top class stadia that we never had before. I think the riders could do the GPs on a much tighter budget than they do but certainly the money isn't as bad as some will have you believe. Some of these guys are millionaires so let's not feel too sorry for them. Where would you like to see some of the money IMG make put into speedway? They are running a business, not a charity, and year on year their events get better and better and they put on a proper show, unlike anything we see in the Elite League. If they could just get the tracks a little better at some venues we will have the complete package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 certainly the money isn't as bad as some will have you believe. So what do the riders get paid for being GP riders? not what they can get from their own sponsors, just what they're paid to be in the series. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think IMG have been fantastic for the sport. The GP and SWC are huge box office events, in speedway terms at least, and we are fortunate to be able to see speedway in top class stadia that we never had before. I think the riders could do the GPs on a much tighter budget than they do but certainly the money isn't as bad as some will have you believe. Some of these guys are millionaires so let's not feel too sorry for them. Where would you like to see some of the money IMG make put into speedway? They are running a business, not a charity, and year on year their events get better and better and they put on a proper show, unlike anything we see in the Elite League. If they could just get the tracks a little better at some venues we will have the complete package. Yes - they ARE running a business. But the fact is that for the last two years we have had World Champions over forty years of age. Where are the young Riders coming through - particularly young BRITISH Riders - (don't mention D'arcy Ward, he is toying with the idea of staying out of the GP Series so he can ride in Poland. Obviously it is more lucrative for him to do that than compete in the GP's) I would like to see IMG INVESTING in the future of their product and ploughing money in to Training of young Riders (not just British). IF they have the welfare of the Sport at heart they should be doing something like this - NOT just creaming off the Cash from the BIG Events. IMG are NOT in the GP Series for nothing - I don't think they are a benevolent Organisation - I don't think they are good for Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 The bottom line is that we have a very very slick product (no Ole jokes please ) served up by an organisation who unlike a majority in the speedway world, don't allow themselves to look like amateurs........... if there are real concerns over the money earned by the riders i'm sure that either riders will start turning down their GP berths... or that IMG will adapt their model to make it work like they did before I can't see that they are running the GP series any different to any of the various speedway nations promotions could, apart from Cardiff and one or two other temp tracks. They have introduced a count down timer, the air fence, a colourful table and hoarding when the riders pick their gate positions and a GP podium ............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Placing Prize money per meeting 1 US$ 11000.- 10 US$ 3700.- 2 US$ 8200.- 11 US$ 3650.- 3 US$ 6900.- 12 US$ 3600.- 4 US$ 6000.- 13 US$ 3550.- 5 US$ 5250.- 14 US$ 3500.- 6 US$ 5100.- 15 US$ 3450.- 7 US$ 4650.- 16 US$ 3400.- 8 US$ 4500.- 17 US$ 2100.- 9 US$ 3850.- 18 US$ 2100.- All travel and Hotels costs are included in the above prize money 11000 usd is approx £7000 Edited October 13, 2011 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Placing Prize money per meeting 1 US$ 11’000.- 10 US$ 3’700.- 2 US$ 8’200.- 11 US$ 3’650.- 3 US$ 6’900.- 12 US$ 3’600.- 4 US$ 6’000.- 13 US$ 3’550.- 5 US$ 5’250.- 14 US$ 3’500.- 6 US$ 5’100.- 15 US$ 3’450.- 7 US$ 4’650.- 16 US$ 3’400.- 8 US$ 4’500.- 17 US$ 2’100.- 9 US$ 3’850.- 18 US$ 2’100.- All travel and Hotels costs are included in the above prize money 11000 usd is approx £7000 So the rider has to pay travel and accommodation for himself and his backup team from the prize money. That makes it look pretty paltry, I mean win every round and you'd get £77,000 compare that to what Vettel the F1 world champ gets. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 So the rider has to pay travel and accommodation for himself and his backup team from the prize money. That makes it look pretty paltry, I mean win every round and you'd get £77,000 compare that to what Vettel the F1 world champ gets. Niamh Not forgetting that BSI stopped a couple of years ago the double money for the winner at several gp`s plus the big money extra race than ran for one year was it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 So the rider has to pay travel and accommodation for himself and his backup team from the prize money. That makes it look pretty paltry, I mean win every round and you'd get £77,000 compare that to what Vettel the F1 world champ gets. Niamh What has F1 got to do with anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 So the rider has to pay travel and accommodation for himself and his backup team from the prize money. That makes it look pretty paltry, I mean win every round and you'd get £77,000 compare that to what Vettel the F1 world champ gets. Niamh Of course it is pretty paltry compared to F1 How can you compare earnings in speedway to F1.You might as well say it is paltry to what a footballer earns in a month and he doesn't have to pay his tema or for his boots out of his earnings.Speedway is a minority sport.How often does it need to be said?It doesn't attract the sponsorship of F1,Football,Tennis,Golf,American Football,NBA and loads more including probably Cricket and Rugby although i know next to zero about these sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yes - they ARE running a business. But the fact is that for the last two years we have had World Champions over forty years of age. Where are the young Riders coming through - particularly young BRITISH Riders - (don't mention D'arcy Ward, he is toying with the idea of staying out of the GP Series so he can ride in Poland. Obviously it is more lucrative for him to do that than compete in the GP's) I would like to see IMG INVESTING in the future of their product and ploughing money in to Training of young Riders (not just British). IF they have the welfare of the Sport at heart they should be doing something like this - NOT just creaming off the Cash from the BIG Events. IMG are NOT in the GP Series for nothing - I don't think they are a benevolent Organisation - I don't think they are good for Speedway. IMG are expected to pay money to the FIM .......AND to invest into the future of the sport that it doesnt govern or have anything to do with outside of the GP's or SWC? ............ isnt this the FIM's job? They were the ones who canvassed for bidders and accepted the amount agreed IMG are a business and are in it to earn money... it just so happens that they are also judged on how well they run things in terms of future business........... why on earth are you talking about a benevolent organisation? Even the FIM are not a benevolent organisation ... and i'm struggling to think of any motorsport which is run by a benevolent organisation! I can't see that they are running the GP series any different to any of the various speedway nations promotions could, apart from Cardiff and one or two other temp tracks. They have introduced a count down timer, the air fence, a colourful table and hoarding when the riders pick their gate positions and a GP podium ............ Trees you cannot seriously believe that the GP's would be the product that they are without the involvement of BSI and IMG............ I understand that, like WK, you have always had an issue with the GP's...... but we are talking about the annually foot shooting world of speedway here arent we? The biggest thing you missed out that they have brought is consistency..... ironically one of the pluses of the needlessly long contract........ they dont make massive changes.... they spend enough cash to not appear to be tight to the outside world (something 95% of speedway fails on!) .......as far as we know they arent bullied into decisions by this or that federation.... and in the end they are an island within the sport with what is mostly a top quality product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Of course it is pretty paltry compared to F1 How can you compare earnings in speedway to F1.You might as well say it is paltry to what a footballer earns in a month and he doesn't have to pay his tema or for his boots out of his earnings.Speedway is a minority sport.How often does it need to be said?It doesn't attract the sponsorship of F1,Football,Tennis,Golf,American Football,NBA and loads more including probably Cricket and Rugby although i know next to zero about these sports there is a possible side discussion here on Speedway's position in the 40s to 70s compared to Formula One and how all that changed and why........... I believe Bernie Ecclestone once said Speedway would have to be bought lock stock and barrel to be big again ...... I wonder how much Lewis Hamilton earns in sponsorship and how that compares to his Maclaren pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 there is a possible side discussion here on Speedway's position in the 40s to 70s compared to Formula One and how all that changed and why........... I believe Bernie Ecclestone once said Speedway would have to be bought lock stock and barrel to be big again ...... I wonder how much Lewis Hamilton earns in sponsorship and how that compares to his Maclaren pay Ach,you might as well wonder why Faure Essozimna Gnassingbé doesn't have as much power in the world of politics compared to Angela Merkel as compare a speedway riders earnings to a F1 driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I suspect that the figures just confirm that some riders actually pay to be in the series. But if some people think that negative income is not as bad as those incurring are claiming, then so be it. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ach,you might as well wonder why Faure Essozimna Gnassingbé doesn't have as much power in the world of politics compared to Angela Merkel as compare a speedway riders earnings to a F1 driver cant say its ever crossed my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 cant say its ever crossed my mind Some day i will find someone that has had sleepless nightspondering that question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I wonder how much Lewis Hamilton earns in sponsorship and how that compares to his Maclaren pay Lewis doesn't have a single individual sponsor. All his money is paid to him from Maclaren. He is expected to work hard for their sponsors and is paid very very well. This has always been the case with Maclaren unlike all the other F1 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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