Nigel Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) That's a wodge of reading! Didn't they know about paragraphs in those day? The first English speedway rider - wasn't that Freddie Hore? Who was the Englishman who compiled this tirade of reading matter posted above? Hi Kennylane, Tirade is a bit strong? I have quoted as it was written. you are right much of the grammer in the early mags was iffy. After much research I have yet to discover who the rider is, but I have not given up Edited October 30, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I realise that to many people John S Hoskins is a hero, Someone they hold in high esteem and when our heros are brought down to earth we react and distrust those who sully their image. The realisation that our heros are not all they are cracked up to be can bring deflation and disappointment. The American speedway superstar Lloyd "Sprouts" Elder was my exulted hero. When I discoverd some unsavory truths about his private life I felt let down, deflated and disappointed. I have never looked at him in the same light again. Was it something 'Sprouts" Elder did at the first speedway meeting at Maitland on December 15 1923? Did he upset the sport's founder Johnnie Hoskins? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 You are in danger of disappearing up you know where by going round in circles! The Bill Crampton letter has already been up on this thread several pages ago! Tut tut slap my wrists not paying attention again..... my profuse apologies.. I blame old age what about Len Upfold? I cant be Ar*** to read it all from the begining again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Was it something 'Sprouts" Elder did at the first speedway meeting at Maitland on December 15 1923? Did he upset the sport's founder Johnnie Hoskins? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT As Mr Elder was still in America at the time it would have been difficult to upset John S Hoskins or the sports founder should there ever have been one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Garrigan Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Let's be a bit serious here please. Can those who support the Ian Hoskins/Johnnie Hoskins version of the invention/start of speedway on December 15, 1923 at the Maitland Show Ground answer the following for me with a one word answer: - Had motor cycles previously raced on a grass surfaced showground/sportsground in Australia as part of a carnival program as happened at that first appearance of motor cycles racing at the Maitland Show Ground in December 1923? Should you answer "yes", then here is a supplementary question - how was the racing at Maitland on Decemebr 15, 1923 different to what had previously taken place? Should you answer "no", there is no supplementary question. Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please. No name calling please, just a sensible debate for those interested in sorting this mess out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Let's be a bit serious here please. Can those who support the Ian Hoskins/Johnnie Hoskins version of the invention/start of speedway on December 15, 1923 at the Maitland Show Ground answer the following for me with a one word answer: - Had motor cycles previously raced on a grass surfaced showground/sportsground in Australia as part of a carnival program as happened at that first appearance of motor cycles racing at the Maitland Show Ground in December 1923? Should you answer "yes", then here is a supplementary question - how was the racing at Maitland on Decemebr 15, 1923 different to what had previously taken place? Should you answer "no", there is no supplementary question. Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please. No name calling please, just a sensible debate for those interested in sorting this mess out. You are riding a high horse when you specify who should reply to a post - "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" - this is an open forum and all members are entitled to comment, not just those who you want to. There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, I believe it. Likewise in regard to speedway, I remain convinced it was started by Johnnie Hoskins at Matitland on December 15 1923. And despite the rewriting recently of a wikipedia thread on this subject. I still subscribe to that viewpoint. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Buy yer own! Well said, BFD. Drives me mad how many people share their copies of our magazines, instead of buying their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, I believe it. Ah, Jack, just the person I've been looking for to help me out with a conundrum I've never been able to resolve. But I know a man like you who researches everything thoroughly will be able to at last answer my question. It's this: Did God create animals before man as it says in Genesis Chapter One or did he create man before animals as it says in Genesis Chapter Two? I look forward to your in depth knowledge and research being able to provide the answer for me. Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ah, Jack, just the person I've been looking for to help me out with a conundrum I've never been able to resolve. But I know a man like you who researches everything thoroughly will be able to at last answer my question. It's this: Did God create animals before man as it says in Genesis Chapter One or did he create man before animals as it says in Genesis Chapter Two? I look forward to your in depth knowledge and research being able to provide the answer for me. Thank you in advance. This may provide you with a more profound answer to your problem than I possibly can. http://bible-truth.org/GEN2.HTM JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Brilliant, Jack. Thank you. That explains it all. So Adam named all the various species of dinosaurs as well did he? I've often wondered where they got their Latin names from. Thank you for sorting that out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oh you gotta love him.....i just knew he would believe in that dusty old book.Goes from Eddie Izzard to Ricky Gervais...."the other name for the bible is the gospel.So it is all true.Clue is in the title..." The Bible But i don't think we should get into that discussion as well as trying to sort out the speedway question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ah, Jack, just the person I've been looking for to help me out with a conundrum I've never been able to resolve. But I know a man like you who researches everything thoroughly will be able to at last answer my question. It's this: Did God create animals before man as it says in Genesis Chapter One or did he create man before animals as it says in Genesis Chapter Two? I look forward to your in depth knowledge and research being able to provide the answer for me. Thank you in advance. Now correct me if I am wrong but the subject on this posting are supposed to be about "Replying to next Issue Of Classic Speedway" Now not having seen the current Classic Speedway magazine is there now a Bible section or is this the biggest straying off topic ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 God is everywhere, mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Garrigan Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 You are riding a high horse when you specify who should reply to a post - "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" - this is an open forum and all members are entitled to comment, not just those who you want to. There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, I believe it. Likewise in regard to speedway, I remain convinced it was started by Johnnie Hoskins at Matitland on December 15 1923. And despite the rewriting recently of a wikipedia thread on this subject. I still subscribe to that viewpoint. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT The reason I used those words Jack is that some may be interested in what had been happening within motor cycle racing in Australia pre Maitland December 1923. I didn't want red herrings, hear-say, abuse and folk law to confuse history. Are you always this aggressive? I know your view on the subject, so I assume you answered "no" to my question. I may have been included in those referred to as "arm chair" historians in one posting. Let me explain just how I developed my understanding of pre-war motor cycle racing within Australia. I did not rely on what others had either said or written about what happened during that period. I do what grass roots researchers do, go to the newspapers of the day. I have spent countless hours reading newspapers from across Australia on microfilm. I have followed developments in the evolution of speedway in Australia day-to-day, I have seen the advertisements for these carnivals which featured motor cycles as one of the attractions, I have seen the reports of what happened and have seen the results of the racing. Naturally I haven't read the newspapers from all towns and cities from across Australia going back to the start of the 20th century, that would take a lifetime. When Johnnie Hoskins programed motor cycles on the occasion of that December 15, 1923 carnival, he did what had been happening across Australia for years. There was nothing different or new about that occasion. Maitland is a town in the Hunter Valley region of New South Wales. Motor cycles had raced on carnival and sports programs on show grounds and sports grounds in the Hunter Valley for nearly 20 years prior to December 15, 1923. How do I know that? I have seen the advertisements and results which appeared in newspapers of the day. I paid particular attention to the early carnival racing at Thebarton Oval in South Australia. The surface on which the motor cycles raced there was changed from grass to cinders. Motor cycles raced there on cinders and under electric lighting before Maitland December 15, 1923. Here in Queensland there was even a Championship meeting staged for motor cycles. In August of 1919 on just one page of a Rockhampton newspaper there appeared advertisements for three carnivals to be staged at the local show ground over a period of a month, one being the Central Queensland Championship. Forums such as this can only serve a purpose when intelligent debate can take place. I know people can be passionate about their beliefs, but there is a better way to go about discussion than aggressiveness and abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have to disagree with the venerable scribe Norbold in his assertion that JH took risks because if he did it was not with his own money. JH did not have the wherewithal to fund speedway promotions, my research suggests he relied on others to provide the money. It appears he always had a partner(s), business men etc. and most likley managed tracks for the real promoters, those whose money was at stake. Without those people he could not have achieved anything. The 'I did it all' self publicity machine pushed into the shadows all those who deserve credit for their part in speedway. I wonder how their sons feel with their fathers being denied a place in history, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT so in your own words it is only a 'theory'...........Like the Hoskins urban myth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 God is everywhere, mick. He wasn't in Sainsburys today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Garrigan Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) You are riding a high horse when you specify who should reply to a post - "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" - this is an open forum and all members are entitled to comment, not just those who you want to. There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, I believe it. Likewise in regard to speedway, I remain convinced it was started by Johnnie Hoskins at Matitland on December 15 1923. And despite the rewriting recently of a wikipedia thread on this subject. I still subscribe to that viewpoint. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Jack I owe you an apology. It was good of you to draw me into line in your position as a moderator of this forum. I know it is a moderator's job (I have been one myself so I know), and nobody else's, to decide what/how members can and cannot post. I no doubt in the near future will receive an official warning. Just to clear up one point though, where did I say that only those I want to comment can do so? I will also take this opportunity to ask you a question Jack. You have been one of the major posters on this thread, just what positive contribution have you made to better the understanding and knowledge of the members who are interested in both what happened at the Maitland Show Ground in the 1920s and what had happened as far as motor cycle racing in Australia is concerned pre-Maitland? I hope I haven't broken another forum rule in being so bold as to ask the question. Maybe I'll get two official warnings and even be banned from here. Edited November 1, 2011 by Ross Garrigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Jack I owe you an apology. It was good of you to draw me into line in your position as a moderator of this forum. I know it is a moderator's job (I have been one myself so I know), and nobody else's, to decide what/how members can and cannot post. I no doubt in the near future will receive an official warning. Just to clear up one point though, where did I say that only those I want to comment can do so? I will also take this opportunity to ask you a question Jack. You have been one of the major posters on this thread, just what positive contribution have you made to better the understanding and knowledge of the members who are interested in both what happened at the Maitland Show Ground in the 1920s and what had happened as far as motor cycle racing in Australia is concerned pre-Maitland? I hope I haven't broken another forum rule in being so bold as to ask the question. Maybe I'll get two official warnings and even be banned from here. To those who genuinely want to know more about the issues I raised in my previous post (OH! there I go again, excluding some readers - moderator Jack will be sending me another official warning) I am prepared to email out copies of carnival advertisements, a photo of the Maitland plaque which does NOT say speedway was invented at Maitland, and a copy of the newspaper results of the much written about December 15, 1923 carnival in which it states other tracks had previously staged this form of motor cycle racing. I would have expected something different in your reply to my Post rather than something hinting at a personal attack on me. You know very well that I am not a moderator of the BSF or any other site for that matter. I am just a speedway follower. I thought your comment "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" was marginalising those who you wanted to comment on your message. I just wanted to clarify that this was an open forum where all who wanted to could debate their views and not be given guidelines. It would seem in your view that I have not contributed anything useful to the Johnnie Hoskins/Maitland debate. For my part, I am not a speedway historian rather am I a keen supporter of the sport who has gained some knowledge of its history via the several history forums that are around and reading magazines like 'Speedway Star', 'Backtrack" and 'Classic Speedway". I think the posters on this thread have already pointed out my lack of knowledge about the Australian scene in the early 1920s. From these I have learned something useful. That's why I participate on these groups - to add to my limited knowledge of speedway's origins, then decide how I view that against what I have previously found out. Sadly, too, because I tried to make a parallel between my belief in Johnnie Hoskins role at Maitland in 1923 with a similar belief in the Old Testament, I have been branded something of a 'religious nutter.' I am certainly not that but will not detail my religious beliefs for further sarcastic and sad comments like 'God wasn't in Sainsbury's' as one poster has done. That is sad and disrespectful - not to me but to those who may have more devoted religious convictions. Your message comments, as are those of the many other Posters on this thread, have been taken onboard by me and while I may or may not agree with them, I do value them and when needed will add my response to them - they may or may not be correct in the opinion of others but in this world where there is still a modicum of free speech I will continue to express them. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) so in your own words it is only a 'theory'...........Like the Hoskins urban myth Good old wikipedia (!!) - this probably needs a rewrite by the expert in these matters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited November 1, 2011 by olddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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