BigFatDave Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Great answer, Dave. Those two dates are so instantly recognisable that you don't know what they are. If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. The point is, olddon, there is no proof that Hoskins "invented" speedway other than him saying he did. But olddon didn't say that, did he, Norbold? More red herrings. As some one who has done much serious research on the subject and has traveled some thousands of miles to various archives and libraries and is concerned with historical accuracy and has no wish to make a so called attack on Johnie H, I note that those who believe in the Hoskins myths have not got off their fat a**** and done any research. So you've been to Maitland then, oh much-travelled one? Still got the tractor Big Fat Dave? time you went on a diet mate, to much of this has addled your brain Regards to all Plonkas, Nigel Had to be a Nigel. How do we know Napoleon didn't win at Waterloo? Were any of us there? How do we know King Harold didn't with the battle of Hastings? Were any of us there? How do we know the French didn't win the Battle of Agincourt? Were any of us there? Well done, Jack, you have added a whole new dimension to historical research. More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. I know it was Ian Hoskins who made the remark, thank you, Dave. But nice of you to reiterate it. The point I was actually making was that there is no date when football or cricket was said to be founded. In fact, it seems to me that Ian is rather shooting himself in the foot using that argument because like football and cricket, speedway evolved and there is no starting date. But olddon didn't say that, did he, Norbold? More red herrings. So are you saying that Olddon does not think Hoskins invented speedway? I think you'll find that's exactly what he's been saying. So you've been to Maitland then, oh much-travelled one? What difference does that make? More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. I think your mind has become too fuddled trying to defend the indefensible, Dave. If you re-read Olddon's post it was he who was making the point that apparently you had to be there to know whether something happened or not. It was he who was denying the benefit of research. I was trying to point out the absurdity of that view. Of course, I'm not too lazy to do the research. I have done lots of research just as Nigel and Ross have. Anyone who has actually researched the beginnings of speedway will tell you it was NOT 'invented' by Johnnie Hoskins. It's you and people like you who are too lazy to do the research who just accept the old myth without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Quote:- Gosh! What a tirade. You sound like a general who has lost the high ground - or rather like someone who has long believed Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT start/invent speedway having to face an increasing groundswell from those who have a contrary opinion. And where was I your "old adversary'? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT -:Un-quote Glad you appreciate my efforts Jack but I think tirade is a bit strong... Do you think I will win the "Booker Prize" Glad I sound like a general, Promotion at last........ you sound like a grumpy old man My Old "Advesary on The "Speedway History Forum" I aint lost the High ground I dont 'believe' JH did not start speedway I know he did not, it is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact. Like most people I believed the myth until I started researching my local tracks. Increasing Groundswell what 3 people on a forum.. your having a laugh,,, I have not offered an opinion therefore there aint a contary one, this is not religion. Religion is about belief History is about facts. Again you offer no facts or reasoned argument Do you think you have a closed mind Jack Hope you enjoyed my epistle Must go I have got to slop out the Inmates. Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 How do you know Johnnie Hoskins didn't first promote/invent speedway you? Were you there? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT I have a brand new "Tardis" on the drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I know it was Ian Hoskins who made the remark, thank you, Dave. But nice of you to reiterate it. The point I was actually making was that there is no date when football or cricket was said to be founded. In fact, it seems to me that Ian is rather shooting himself in the foot using that argument because like football and cricket, speedway evolved and there is no starting date. If you knew Hoskins made the remark why ask me to clarify it? So are you saying that Olddon does not think Hoskins invented speedway? I think you'll find that's exactly what he's been saying. Unlike you, Norbold, I don't claim to know what other people are thinking. What difference does that make? Ask Nigel. I think your mind has become too fuddled trying to defend the indefensible, Dave. If you re-read Olddon's post it was he who was making the point that apparently you had to be there to know whether something happened or not. It was he who was denying the benefit of research. I was trying to point out the absurdity of that view. Of course, I'm not too lazy to do the research. I have done lots of research just as Nigel and Ross have. Anyone who has actually researched the beginnings of speedway will tell you it was NOT 'invented' by Johnnie Hoskins. It's you and people like you who are too lazy to do the research who just accept the old myth without question. I'm not trying to defend anything, Norbold. I posted a statement by Ian Hoskins - you seem to have adopted a 'Shoot the Messenger' approach - I think your retirement may have contributed to your rapid decline in debating skills. As for me, while I don't claim to be the fount of all knowledge like yourself, or pretend to have done lots of research while facetiously asking other people to prove one's own points, at least I've been to Maitland and seen the evidence with my own eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) If you took the time to actually read my post you'd notice I was quoting Ian Hoskins, rather than making a statement, so your argument is pettyfogging at best. Had to be a Nigel. More red herrings from someone too lazy to do his own research. Yes David (Bruce) it is a Nigel keep of it Dave Are you into fishing dave. so many red herrings .... plus insults If I were you Id stick to tea Youve been to Maitland and seen the evidence... have you got a "Tardis" as well, ... what evidence.. a plaque on a wall Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Yes David (Bruce) it is a Nigel keep of it Dave Are you into fishing dave. so many red herrings .... plus insults If I were you Id stick to tea Youve been to Maitland and seen the evidence... have you got a "Tardis" as well, ... what evidence.. a plaque on a wall What insults? I don't know what you're on, mate but you can keep it - I have enough problems following your misspelt ungrammatical rant as it is. You have no evidence, just an opinion which you seem to think we should accept as fact purely on your say so - life's not like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Quote:- I'm not trying to defend anything, Norbold. I posted a statement by Ian Hoskins - you seem to have adopted a 'Shoot the Messenger' approach - I think your retirement may have contributed to your rapid decline in debating skills. As for me, while I don't claim to be the fount of all knowledge like yourself, or pretend to have done lots of research while facetiously asking other people to prove one's own points, at least I've been to Maitland and seen the evidence with my own eyes. :-unquote Hmmmm... the insults aint even humorous, could be seen as a tad spiteful? Norbold has never claimed to be the fount of all knowlege or given that impression in my view. Facetious 1. characterized by levity of attitude and love of joking, a facetious person 2. jocular or amusing, esp at inappropriate times facetious remarks Dont loose your sense of Humour Dave !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) What insults? I don't know what you're on, mate but you can keep it - I have enough problems following your misspelt ungrammatical rant as it is. You have no evidence, just an opinion which you seem to think we should accept as fact purely on your say so - life's not like that. You are a grumpy old man !!!! Everone else seems to be able to follow my miss spelt ungramatical rant, whats your problem? yes I wish there was a spell checker on this forum Ungramatical..spelling, Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black ... "Lifes not like That" what a pearl of wisdom Sorry but it aint opinion and I have not offered one and Ive not asked you to accept anything If You choose not to believe thats your choice but it dont alter the truth.. to be honest I could not care less what you believe as I said I aint going to bother to convert those with closed minds, the flat earthers. And how the hell would you know what evidence I have. On the basis of your arguments you do not believe anything about anything. Not much point in you reading a history book as you apparently think they are just opinion. What I have not heard from the Hoskins supporters is any reasoned or logical debate just silly accusations of Hoskins Phobia. You have made it quite obvious that you are a Hoskins believer Must go Ive got better things to do than argue the toss, G-day Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Where does this fall into the debate? It would seem there is evidence that track motorcycling of a sort took place in England at Canning Town, east london, 20 odd years before Johnnie Hoskins started his efforts at Maitland. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 No it wasn't. OH YES IT WAS!!!!! Well - it IS becoming a bit of a Pantomime on this Thread. :party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) OH YES IT WAS!!!!! Well - it IS becoming a bit of a Pantomime on this Thread. :party: (Enter left) Mother goose...... followed by Big fat Dave..... Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Where does this fall into the debate? It would seem there is evidence that track motorcycling of a sort took place in England at Canning Town, east london, 20 odd years before Johnnie Hoskins started his efforts at Maitland. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8300 Besides the link given in my quote, here's another item about pre-Maitland days. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8313 Edited October 8, 2011 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (Enter left) Mother goose...... followed by Big fat Dave..... It's actually a Magpie Goose, Nigel, and the Goose Season's open in the NT - no goose is safe, especially with heavily-armed alcoholic drug abusers wandering around loose, so maybe you'd better stay at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) I'm not trying to defend anything, Norbold. I posted a statement by Ian Hoskins - you seem to have adopted a 'Shoot the Messenger' approach. And here's a quote I made earlier: I'm sure everyone who's been to Maitland and seen the commemorative plaque under the Grandstand would agree - this is the birthplace of Motorcycle Speedway and Johnnie Hoskins was the Godfather. Anyway, enough of the name calling. I would be interested in hearing, Dave and Olddon and White Knight come to that, your views on the meetings held at Townsville, Thebarton, Rockhampton and Newcastle prior to December 1923 and also your views on riders like Don Johns, Albert "Shrimp" Burns, Eddie Brinck and Maldwyn Jones. Let's keep it all factual. Let's try and make this a serious discussion as the subject really deserves that. Edited October 9, 2011 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Anyway, enough of the name calling. I would be interested in hearing, Dave and Olddon and White Knight come to that, your views on the meetings held at Townsville, Thebarton, Rockhampton and Newcastle prior to December 1923 and also your views on riders like Don Johns, Albert "Shrimp" Burns, Eddie Brinck and Maldwyn Jones. Let's keep it all factual and forget try to score points. Let's try and make this a serious discussion as the subject really deserves that. I think a reference to these links sent over before give some guide to what may have gone prior Maitland in 1923 although they're not about Australian tracks but some in the UK and Europe. I know the name Maldwyn Jones, who some claimed was the first broadsider and that he was a Welshman living in the USA. But wasn't he a board track rider more than a dirt-track racer? http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8300 http://sports.groups...ay/message/8313 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited October 9, 2011 by olddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 The four tracks I have mentioned are all in Australia and all held meetings similar to the one held at West Maitland by Johnnie Hoskins. Indeed, unlike the meeting at West Maitland which was held on grass, the meeting at Thebarton was even held on cinders. The four American riders I mentioned all raced on dirt tracks and all broadsided in speedway fashion before the First World War and into the early 20s, again all before West Maitland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) The new book about pioneer Australian rider Col Stewart, plus a letter published in 'Speedway Star' sometime in the 1970s from veteran Bill Crampton, who actually rode in the first meeting at Maitland in 1923, IMO give backing to Johnnie Hoskins claims about the start of speedway. I wonder if these views will also coincide with what Ian Hoskins article on the subject of his father Johnnie and Maitland in 1923 will bring to light. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/10709 Edited October 13, 2011 by olddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Whatever happens, Jack, hopefully we've stirred up a bit of interest in the mag, which can't be all bad, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yes BFD, quite right. There was a fear elsewhere that this topic was going off the boil. We don't want that to happen. Here is a link from elsewhere in regard to Col Stewart's opinion. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/10709 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.