BigFatDave Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) From Ian Hoskins: To those who are looking for me to defend the attacks upon my father, Johnnie Hoskins, I have done so in my next article for Classic Speedway. The issue is due out on October 14th and I am glad to see that there are other critics who rise to his defence as a pioneering speedway promoter apart from myself. I put it this way- if an un-named person allowed a field to be used by some motor cyclists to do a few circuits in 1920, what is the point in calling him the pioneer promoter of speedway if he never followed up by staging weekly events before the public as Johnnie did in 1923? Speedway should have a birthdate to be recalled by riders and the public like football and cricket have. Johnnie gave such a date and promoted it boldly. He introduced broadsiding, cinder tracks, safety fences, rules of racing and peronality riders. He followed up by promoting at Newcastle, Sydney and Perth in 1927. He was a promoter in every sense of the word. I rest my case here and have more to say in my Classic article. Ian Hoskins. I'm sure everyone who's been to Maitland and seen the commemorative plaque under the Grandstand would agree - this is the birthplace of Motorcycle Speedway and Johnnie Hoskins was the Godfather. Edited October 7, 2011 by BigFatDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Garrigan Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ian Hoskins wrote of his father: - "I put it this way- if an un-named person allowed a field to be used by some motor cyclists to do a few circuits in 1920, what is the point in calling him the pioneer promoter of speedway if he never followed up by staging weekly events before the public as Johnnie did in 1923?" Does Ian Hoskins know the extent to which motor cycles raced at carnivals on showgrounds around Australia before his father took the position of secretary of the Maitland Show Society? This had been going on for years, not in "fields" but at showgrounds and sports grounds. A championship event for motor cycles had even been staged on a showground. Motor cycles had even raced on cinders under lights in South Australia before they raced on the grass at Maitland in 1923-24. What happened at the Maitland Showground during the 1923-24 season is a very important step in the evolution of speedway in Australia. During my extensive research into the early motor cycle racing in Australia, I did not come across so many carnivals which included motor cycle racing staged over such a short period as occurred at Maitland in 1923-24. This enabled riders to hone their racing skills on a small track, to adapt their machinery (or even purchase new machinery) to improve performances on the track. The regular racing also enabled the spectators to build an interest in the racing. The events staged at Maitland that season were not speedway meetings, they were carnivals with motor cycles just one of the attractions. The very last carnival staged that season was the only "all motor cycle racing" event staged. Johnnie was secretary of the show society and in this position oversaw the staging of only 3 of the carnivals staged at Maitland that season. All the rest were promoted by various other bodies who paid for use of the ground. To say Johnnie "promoted" motor cycle racing at Maitland in 1923-24 is not correct. By the way Ian, you said Johnnie staged "weekly events before the public in 1923". If you are referring to carnivals which included motor cycles on the program, there were only 2 staged during 1923, one promoted by the Show Society and the other by a cycling promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) From Ian Hoskins: To those who are looking for me to defend the attacks upon my father, Johnnie Hoskins, I have done so in my next article for Classic Speedway. The issue is due out on October 14th.... IAN HOSKINS I'm sure everyone who's been to Maitland and seen the commemorative plaque under the Grandstand would agree - this is the birthplace of Motorcycle Speedway and Johnnie Hoskins was the Godfather. I couldn't agree more BigFatDave. It seems to be an obsession for some to belittle the work of Johnnie Hoskins in regard to the birth of speedway in 1923. I am sure that son Ian's 'Classic Speedway' article will be the definitive word on the fact that he did found the great sport. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited October 7, 2011 by olddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well - I regard Johnnie Hoskins as the 'Father' of Speedway. Always have - and - always will. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well - I regard Johnnie Hoskins as the 'Father' of Speedway. Always have - and - always will. :approve: And why not? The alternative voice on this subject is making itself heard. All power to Ian Hoskins pen in defence of his dear old dad's role in getting our great sport organised. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 And why not? The alternative voice on this subject is making itself heard. All power to Ian Hoskins pen in defence of his dear old dad's role in getting our great sport organised. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT An interesting thread. I'll send off for the next issue of 'Classic Speedway' to read what promises to be a robust defence of JSH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think Johnnie Hoskins deserves the tag of "The Father Of Speedway". It's arguable whether West Maitland in 1923 was the first meeting or not, but that's not really the point. It was Hoskins who first really promoted and shaped speedway. However, I hope no-one thinks Hoskins is the Father Of British Speedway. That is a false claim. It's actually those behind High Beech (again it's arguable whether that is the actual first meeting, but again it doesn't really matter) who are the Fathers Of British Speedway. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This whole argument about Johnnie Hoskins reminds me of the argument between Creationists and (for want of a better word) Evolutionists. No matter how many times it is proved that Johnnie Hoskins did not invent speedway, there are those who just have blind faith and refused to be moved by evidence. Well, good luck to them, but some of us prefer to do the research and find out what really happened and the truth about how speedway began. It's far more interesting than saying "Hoskinsdidit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 "Speedway should have a birthdate to be recalled by riders and the public like football and cricket have." And what are those well-known dates, pray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) And what are those well-known dates, pray? Haven't you got Google on your 'puter, Norbie? If so, then may I respectfully suggest you extract your preferred digit and flamin' well look it up, cuz. I'm not the British Flamin' Museum! Edited October 8, 2011 by BigFatDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Great answer, Dave. Those two dates are so instantly recognisable that you don't know what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This whole argument about Johnnie Hoskins reminds me of the argument between Creationists and (for want of a better word) Evolutionists. No matter how many times it is proved that Johnnie Hoskins did not invent speedway, there are those who just have blind faith and refused to be moved by evidence. Well, good luck to them, but some of us prefer to do the research and find out what really happened and the truth about how speedway began. It's far more interesting than saying "Hoskinsdidit". And maybe, just maybe, Ian Hoskins is unlikely to have a balanced view. I think the tag "The Father Of Speedway" is fair enough, though; do you Norbold? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 It's a mazing how the anti-Hoskins Brigade always claim they know that Johnnie was not the father of speedway because their research proves this. Yet when alternative opinions, and sometimes even proof is provided to countermand their comments they still insist on only themselves having the so-called true story. I wonder if these researchers have yet found out that the world isn't flat? They recently twisted their pants when another 'Classic Speedway' piece by Philip Dalling came down in support of Johnnie Hoskins. Doubtless they'll do this when his son Ian Hoskins piece appears sometime next week. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) The point is, olddon, there is no proof that Hoskins "invented" speedway other than him saying he did. But there is plenty of proof he didn't. Tell me what the absolute proof is that Hoskins invented speedway. Indeed it is people who insist against all the evidence that Hoskins invented speedway who are the true flat-earthers. And by the way, why is it that those who defend Hoskins just resort to ad hominem attacks on those with whom they disagree. Neither you, nor Ian Hoskins nor Philip Dalling can provide proof of your assertion. All you do is make personal attacks on people who do not agree with you. As it happens I have the highest regard for Johnnie Hoskins. He was the promoter at New Cross when I started going to speedway. As you can see I still regard New Cross as MY team in spite of following West Ham and Ipswich in later years. There is no doubt that Hoskins was the showman supreme of speedway and did much to promote speedway and make it popular throughout Australia, Britain and indeed the world. We do owe him an enormous debt for popularising our sport and making it what it is...but, that doesn't mean he "invented" the sport. Why people like you can't accept this fact I am not quite sure. For one thing it does a great disservice to those who came before Hoskins who really began speedway and gave Hoskins something to popularise. Why should they be rubbed out of history when, really, we should be honouring their names AS WELL as Hoskins? Edited October 8, 2011 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) As some one who has done much serious research on the subject and has traveled some thousands of miles to various archives and libraries and is concerned with historical accuracy and has no wish to make a so called attack on Johnie H, I note that those who believe in the Hoskins myths have not got off their fat a**** and done any research. These bar room experts are in total denial, they do not wish to know the truth cos it upsets their neat little world, but as I suspect they are just on this forum to wind people up, ON YER BIKES.. None of you have one shred of evidence to back up your superstitious beliefs and I will not make any attempt to convert you. You cant give spectacles to the blind and expect them to see! Ian H bless him, in his advancing years may be suffering with memory loss, and Hallucinating (allegedly)as he keeps seeing attacks on his father I have not seen any attack on JHs person or his abilities as as a showman and promotor Those who see an attack where there isnt one are suffering with paranoia? (if the cap fits ) The majority of people out there understand logic and facts, The few wind up merchants (AKA Al Qaeda) on this forun are in a small minority. This is like the civil war even after the kings head was cut of people did not belive he was dead. The only thing JH is father of is his children. Still got the tractor Big Fat Dave? time you went on a diet mate, to much of this has addled your brain Ahh my old adversary Olddon, Quote:- "And some times even proof is offered" I love that phrase! Well bless my soul.. proof? er sometimes, Please show me. Anti Hoskins brigade what anti Hoskins brigade Come in out of the rain jack you are begining to look like something on the end of a tap Regards to all Plonkas, Nigel Edited October 8, 2011 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think Johnnie Hoskins deserves the tag of "The Father Of Speedway". It's arguable whether West Maitland in 1923 was the first meeting or not, but that's not really the point. It was Hoskins who first really promoted and shaped speedway. All the best Rob No it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Well - I regard Johnnie Hoskins as the 'Father' of Speedway. Always have - and - always will. :approve: Arnt you the clever one?............... Have a good day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 As some one who has done much serious research on the subject and has traveled some thousands of miles to various archives and libraries and is concerned with historical accuracy and has no wish to make a so called attack on Johnie H, I note that those who believe in the Hoskins myths have not got off their fat a**** and done any research. These bar room experts are in total denial, they do not wish to know the truth cos it upsets their neat little world, but as I suspect they are just on this forum to wind people up, ON YER BIKES.. None of you have one shred of evidence to back up your superstitious beliefs and I will not make any attempt to convert you. You cant give spectacles to the blind and expect them to see! Ian H bless him, in his advancing years may be suffering with memory loss, and Hallucinating (allegedly)as he keeps seeing attacks on his father I have not seen any attack on JHs person or his abilities as as a showman and promotor Those who see an attack where there isnt one are suffering with paranoia? (if the cap fits ) The majority of people out there understand logic and facts, The few wind up merchants (AKA Al Qaeda) on this forun are in a small minority. This is like the civil war even after the kings head was cut of people did not belive he was dead. The only thing JH is father of is his children. Still got the tractor Big Fat Dave? time you went on a diet mate, to much of this has addled your brain Ahh my old adversary Olddon, Quote:- "And some times even proof is offered" I love that phrase! Well bless my soul.. proof? er sometimes, Please show me. Anti Hoskins brigade what anti Hoskins brigade Come in out of the rain jack you are begining to look like something on the end of a tap Regards to all Plonkas, Nigel Gosh! What a tirade. You sound like a general who has lost the high ground - or rather like someone who has long believed Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT start/invent speedway having to face an increasing groundswell from those who have a contrary opinion. And where was I your "old adversary'? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) No it wasn't. How do you know Johnnie Hoskins didn't first promote/invent speedway you? Were you there? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited October 8, 2011 by olddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 How do we know Napoleon didn't win at Waterloo? Were any of us there? How do we know King Harold didn't with the battle of Hastings? Were any of us there? How do we know the French didn't win the Battle of Agincourt? Were any of us there? Well done, Jack, you have added a whole new dimension to historical research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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