Will Darcy Ward Be A World Champion In The Future?

[ImpartialOne]

And the big look round and clear double take...???

I'm going to have to watch this again now!

[spin king]

Had this discussion at home, and watching Darcy Ward, Chris Holder and Emil Sayfutdinov, I reckon that Darcy is the better rider and the better prospect to make the breakthrough.

This season watching him he has taken his racing to a different level, and he seems to me that he has more control over the bike and more moves than the other two.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

[/quote That was when he realised Harris was going to pass and there was nothing he could do about it

 

Come off it - that's utter nonsense...

I've no problem with Hancock doing what he did but I do with Speedway fans burying their heads in the sand about what did happen...!!

[MARK246]

Had this discussion at home, and watching Darcy Ward, Chris Holder and Emil Sayfutdinov, I reckon that Darcy is the better rider and the better prospect to make the breakthrough.

This season watching him he has taken his racing to a different level, and he seems to me that he has more control over the bike and more moves than the other two.

The two heats that Sayfutinov and Ward have raced each other in the GP's this season, have seen defeats for Ward

[spook]

Hmm, what I recall was that Hancock took one mighty look behind him (ever seen him or indeed any other top rider do such a thing..?) clocked it was Harris rather than Crump and,er, then the British rider passed him...

And yes Harris does cut back on the inside but if Hancock had taken him out to the fence as they entered that final bend such a manoeuvre would've been impossible...

 

that night and that manouver will forver be indelibly etched into our memories...... so its interesting to hear your take on it

 

I dont think it was that cynical tbh...... just like Harris's pass of Hancock at the weekend his bike was carrying more speed...... that was the reason for Greg looking round at the start of lap 3 and at the end of the backstraight on lap 4...he was a worried man and needed to know where the rider buzzing around him was because the track had more than one line that night ......

 

I think it is a simple as because of the pressure Bomber was applying.. Greg chose wrong........... he chose to enter bend 4 tight but then slide out to try to cover the mid/outside... Greg used the mid/outside for 3 of the 4 laps on bend 4 and obviously felt it was faster

 

Edited October 14, 2011 by spook

[foreverblue]

Absolutely correct and for parsloes to say Hancock let him pass because he didnt see him as a threat and lose valuable gp points is utter nonsense,

[lucifer sam]

Hmm, what I recall was that Hancock took one mighty look behind him (ever seen him or indeed any other top rider do such a thing..?) clocked it was Harris rather than Crump and,er, then the British rider passed him...

And yes Harris does cut back on the inside but if Hancock had taken him out to the fence as they entered that final bend such a manoeuvre would've been impossible...

 

You what?

 

Greg would never have let him pass... it's the final of a Grand Prix for goodness sake.

 

Parsloes, you crack me up at times.

 

All the best

Rob

[ImpartialOne]

Thanks for the link spook. Having watched it again, I can confirm that Parsloes is indeed talking nonsense.

 

Harris was way faster than Hancock, anyone can see that. Hancock knew he wasn't quick enough and the only way he'd stop Harris would be to block him, but Harris out-thought him.

 

Had to smile at the comments at the beginning about Hancock doing well to maintain his enthusiasm after such a long career. Who would have bet on him being World Champion four years later and still maintaining that ever-present record?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

You what?

 

Greg would never have let him pass... it's the final of a Grand Prix for goodness sake.

 

Parsloes, you crack me up at times.

 

All the best

Rob

 

Hmm, check out the comments made by Pearson & Tatum commentating on the following years GB GP Final...: they refer to exactly that, that Hancock let Harris past.

 

I've watched the race again today after a long gap and there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Hancock looks (er, WHY does he look...: does he do this every race..?, er, no..); checks out that it's the home rider, Harris (rather than Crump who he may have been expecting...); and as a result lets him past..

To be honest, it's as clear as the day is long that he did this.. IF this had been, say, one Pole letting another pPole through to gain points the whole Speedway world would've slated them endlessly.

Can I explain WHY he did it..? No, not really - except that at that stage in his career Hancock was neither serious contender nor in danger of slipping out of the top 8.. And that it increased the popularity of the sport here and didn't do Greg's any harm either, so was something of a win-win...

 

Simple questions... As above: why that long lingering look; and how many times since has Harris won a GP..?

[lucifer sam]

Hmm, check out the comments made by Pearson & Tatum commentating on the following years GB GP Final...: they refer to exactly that, that Hancock let Harris past.

 

I've watched the race again today after a long gap and there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Hancock looks (er, WHY does he look...: does he do this every race..?, er, no..); checks out that it's the home rider, Harris (rather than Crump who he may have been expecting...); and as a result lets him past..

To be honest, it's as clear as the day is long that he did this.. IF this had been, say, one Pole letting another pPole through to gain points the whole Speedway world would've slated them endlessly.

Can I explain WHY he did it..? No, not really - except that at that stage in his career Hancock was neither serious contender nor in danger of slipping out of the top 8.. And that it increased the popularity of the sport here and didn't do Greg's any harm either, so was something of a win-win...

 

Simple questions... As above: why that long lingering look; and how many times since has Harris won a GP..?

 

[PHILIPRISING]

Hmm, check out the comments made by Pearson & Tatum commentating on the following years GB GP Final...: they refer to exactly that, that Hancock let Harris past.

 

I've watched the race again today after a long gap and there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Hancock looks (er, WHY does he look...: does he do this every race..?, er, no..); checks out that it's the home rider, Harris (rather than Crump who he may have been expecting...); and as a result lets him past..

To be honest, it's as clear as the day is long that he did this.. IF this had been, say, one Pole letting another pPole through to gain points the whole Speedway world would've slated them endlessly.

Can I explain WHY he did it..? No, not really - except that at that stage in his career Hancock was neither serious contender nor in danger of slipping out of the top 8.. And that it increased the popularity of the sport here and didn't do Greg's any harm either, so was something of a win-win...

 

Simple questions... As above: why that long lingering look; and how many times since has Harris won a GP..?

 

SORRY but your thesis is rubbish. Greg has spoken about this many times. He simply wasn't sure what Harris was going to do but figured a burst round the outside was most likely. It was a smart move by Harris, one that he has repeated many, many times but not just in a GP Final. To suggest that Greg threw a race is a very unwelcome slur on an exceptional character and one that does you no credit either.

[HenryW]

And again I repeat, IF a World Final was to have been held this September or early October on a track of anyone's choice do I think that Darcy in the superb form he's in could have given Greg Hancock a massive run for his money..? Well 100% I do...: and frankly, those who say otherwise are (1) burying their heads in the, er, shale; and (2) clearly forgetting what Chris Harris did to Hancock when that particular young man (Bomber) got the bit between his teeth back at Cardiff a few years back!!

A bit of a delayed reply, but I am just catching up on this thread, and I don't think anyone else has made this point, so....

 

You say that Darcy would have given Greg a massive run for his money in a one off World Final this year.

 

He would have needed to get into it first, and he failed to get past the semi finals of the SGP qualifying rounds when only one of the current GP riders was competing in them. Given this fact, I can't understand why you would be so confident of his ability to make the World Final with those other 14 riders involved in the qualifiers as well!

 

For whatever reason it's an absolute FACT that the GP system is seeing very old riders dominate in a way NEVER seen before in the sport. You give me a valid reason for that and I'll listen. IMHO one major reason is the huge and demoralising delay which awaits young talent before they can ever get into it or at least the impression of that: much in sport at the highest level is psychological..

Valid reasons for older riders dominating like never before?

 

I would initially offer up the following two:

1. The sport is safer and medical treatment much better, allowing riders to race at their peak for longer.

2. The sport is more expensive, professional and technical than ever before, ensuring that experience and investment are much more important, which obviously the younger riders don't have as much of.

Edited October 14, 2011 by HenryW

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Okay Phil - fair enough. I withdraw what I said, I did go too far and I apologise...

 

This thread should've been about how good young Darcy is and I hope we can all agree that he is a fantastic breath of fresh air and along with the likes of Chris and Tai and others coming down the pike, can offer the sport an exciting future

[salty]

I was being mischievous about Harris because we all know that Hancock didn't ,er, exactly pull out all the stops to prevent that last bend pass at Cardiff 2007! If that had been a World Final and Hancock needed to win that race, everyone in the sport knows he'd have taken Bomber out wide and held onto win

You've been peddling this nonsense about Herbie "allowing" Harris past for years and I haven't a problem with that - it is after all your opinion. But what's with the "we all know" and "everyone in the sport"?

As far as I recall I have yet to see anyone agreeing with your theory, both on this thread and the many others which you have expounded your views.

 

Henry W makes three excellent points. Firstly, by reminding us of Darcy's failure to overcome the qualifying hurdles and secondly by giving two very valid reasons which explain why the older brigade still hold sway.

Edited October 14, 2011 by salty

[PHILIPRISING]

Okay Phil - fair enough. I withdraw what I said, I did go too far and I apologise...

 

This thread should've been about how good young Darcy is and I hope we can all agree that he is a fantastic breath of fresh air and along with the likes of Chris and Tai and others coming down the pike, can offer the sport an exciting future

 

THAT'S more like it

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

You say that Darcy would have given Greg a massive run for his money in a one off World Final this year.

 

He would have needed to get into it first, and he failed to get past the semi finals of the SGP qualifying rounds when only one of the current GP riders was competing in them. Given this fact, I can't understand why you would be so confident of his ability to make the World Final with those other 14 riders involved in the qualifiers as well!

 

Hmm, you're missing the point that the number of places available each year to, er, qualify for the NEXT year once one's outside the existing GP field is very small... In the old system you qualified for a World Championship in THAT year (held in September) and if say the host nation was allowed 4 slots, there were 12 other places up for grabs... Don't seriously tell me that you don't think Darcy would've qualified under such a set up for the mythical 2011 World Final..!!

[ImpartialOne]

THAT'S more like it

I don't know how you managed that, but it was almost as sweet as the 2007 Cardiff final itself.

[iris123]

Hmm, you're missing the point that the number of places available each year to, er, qualify for the NEXT year once one's outside the existing GP field is very small... In the old system you qualified for a World Championship in THAT year (held in September) and if say the host nation was allowed 4 slots, there were 12 other places up for grabs... Don't seriously tell me that you don't think Darcy would've qualified under such a set up for the mythical 2011 World Final..!!

Parsloes,give it up You seemingly so often fail to understand a reasonable argument for the sake of some point you hold to be the truth.Like HenryW points out,if darcy failed to qualify for the Vetlanda behind the likes of Ulamek,Madsen and Watt,why are you so certain he would qualify for a World Final if he was also up against the GP riders as well?If Olsen could fail to get through to a World Final,i sure think Darcy could also fail

[HenryW]

Hmm, you're missing the point that the number of places available each year to, er, qualify for the NEXT year once one's outside the existing GP field is very small... In the old system you qualified for a World Championship in THAT year (held in September) and if say the host nation was allowed 4 slots, there were 12 other places up for grabs... Don't seriously tell me that you don't think Darcy would've qualified under such a set up for the mythical 2011 World Final..!!

As iris has already pointed out, Darcy didn't just fail to qualify for the SGP in 2011 through the qualifying rounds, he failed to qualify for the SGP race off...And that was in a year that, as far as I can recall, had the least number of existing SGP riders in the qualifying series ever.

 

There were 3 "semi finals" for the race off this year. Darcy came 8th in his.

In case you don't know, in that meeting he was behind Lindback, Zagar, Ulamek, Madsen, Vaculik, Watt and Davidsson.

In the other 2 semi finals Ljung, Walasek, Buczkowski, Protasiewicz, Kasprzak, Pedersen(Bj), Gustafsson, Kylmakorpi, Golubovski, Monberg, Andersen, Ruud, Hansen and Wolbert all finished higher than 8th.

 

Look at that list of riders that did better than Darcy in the qualifiers this year...Do you still think he would have been fighting Greg for the World title in an old style one off final?

 

Don't get me wrong, knowing what Darcy CAN do on a speedway bike, I suspect he was unlucky that day...BUT, that was what happened every year in the old system.

 

The fact that he has been recognised as one of the best and offered a place despite his failure makes me think that this system works better, just as Emil's inclusion did the year he joined.

 

Personally, I think you have made a better argument for the current system than the old one.

[SCB]

Tbh, I can't understand why people seem to want youngsters like Ward, Holder, Woffy, Eddie etc. to fail and cream themselves over the old 'uns. No disrespect to the likes of Greg but it hardly represents a rosy picture of the future of the sport that in the 2011 series he was by far the top man - at his age.

There will always been a World Champion. It's not like when Greg, Tomasz, Nicki and Crumpy retire the sport will die. AJ, Emil, Jarek and co will take over. So what if by then they're 30+? And then when they retire it'll be Ward, Holder and the probably not yet races a meeting riders that take over...

 

In what way is that a bad thing? Weird, odd and different maybe.

 

 

Had to smile at the comments at the beginning about Hancock doing well to maintain his enthusiasm after such a long career. Who would have bet on him being World Champion four years later and still maintaining that ever-present record?

Parsloes, obviously! Have you not read the thread! Durh!

 

 

I'm only amazed that in 2 GP appearances, Darcy has not won them! After all, he's win a World Final so I dont see the difference!