Will Darcy Ward Be A World Champion In The Future?

[MARK246]

My Money would be straight on the current world champion. Id also be willing to bet Darcy doesnt make top 3 next year Or Holder. As a further wager id bet Emil will finish ahead of both of them again.

If Ward is in the line up for the GP's Holder may be looking for a wildcard this time next year,there was a reason he didn't become World U21 Champion.

I can see Ward making the top eight but there's a huge step to the top six.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

For someone who seems to have been around speedway for quite some time, that's a very naive comment.

 

How so..? It's hardly shocking to suggest that Ward could beat Hancock.. They're hardly on different planets...

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Possibly, but irrelevant. We don't have one-off Finals so it's pointless speculating. Ward will no doubt show flashes of brilliance next year, but I think he will find it hard to achieve the level of consistency to challenge for the rostrum. I would expect him to be more of an Emil than a Tai, but the GP is a tough arena.

Holder has had 2 years in the GP's and has won a couple, but has still only finished 8th in the past two series.

 

And if you note, I did say from the start that IF we had a proper World Championship Darcy could already have a title (the likes of Lee & Moore did so at similar ages...). Shame on the sport to have removed the chances for young stars to excel.. Now it seems we want to ask our stars to wait 10, 15 years before glory.. No wonder so many give up...

[ImpartialOne]

How so..? It's hardly shocking to suggest that Ward could beat Hancock.. They're hardly on different planets...

Quite. So what makes you think Hancock would struggle to cope with Ward?

[WIE-JA]

And if you note, I did say from the start that IF we had a proper World Championship Darcy could already have a title (the likes of Lee & Moore did so at similar ages...). Shame on the sport to have removed the chances for young stars to excel.. Now it seems we want to ask our stars to wait 10, 15 years before glory.. No wonder so many give up...

How do you work that out? If a rider has the talent and mental toughness he'll have a good chance of winning the title. Doesn't matter what the system is, there can only be one winner per season.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

How do you work that out? If a rider has the talent and mental toughness he'll have a good chance of winning the title. Doesn't matter what the system is, there can only be one winner per season.

 

Er, you've not noticed how the GP system has squeezed the life out of young talent and seen older and older champions..?

[ImpartialOne]

Er, you've not noticed how the GP system has squeezed the life out of young talent and seen older and older champions..?

Can you expand on this? In what way has the GP system squeezed the life out of youngsters yet not older riders?

 

Could it be they just aren't up to it yet? Jason Crump started his British career in 1991 but didn't win the title until 2004. Nothing to do with GP life sucking systems as he rode in one world final and several GP series almost half as demanding as today's.

 

Mark Loram started out in 1987 and didn't win the title until 2000.

 

Let's go back to 1983 when Ermolenko came over. Finished world no. 3 two years later and again two years after that but it was a whole 10 years before he won it.

 

And of course Gollob, you could say had the life squeezed out of him in the 1993 and 1994 World Finals and the following 15 years of GPs before becoming champion?

 

History shows that many riders have to wait years as, like WIE-JA says, only one man per year can win it.

[iris123]

Er, you've not noticed how the GP system has squeezed the life out of young talent and seen older and older champions..?

Just remind us how Emil got into the series in 2009?Not through the qualis.....if there is talent out there then IMG/BSI would surely want them in their series.Same with Darcy.The World U21 champ was getting an automatic place for some years,but they tended to be disappointing from memory.It took Hampel quite a while to make a real mark.

[Chewbacca]

He has the raw talent and speed. He needs the breaks now.

 

All I know for sure is that I love watching the lad race a speedway bike. He is box office and I don't understand people who want to knock him.

 

I pay my money to watch racing, not gating. I pay my money to watch the likes of Ward, Holder and at our level, Robbo and Rene Bach because they are exciting and will attempt manoeuvres that others bottle out of.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

He has the raw talent and speed. He needs the breaks now.

 

All I know for sure is that I love watching the lad race a speedway bike. He is box office and I don't understand people who want to knock him.

 

I pay my money to watch racing, not gating. I pay my money to watch the likes of Ward, Holder and at our level, Robbo and Rene Bach because they are exciting and will attempt manoeuvres that others bottle out of.

 

Spot on!

Darcy and Chris remind me of my all-time hero Peter Collins - and from my perspective the praise cannot get higher than that.

PC was a World Finalist as a teenager (I think he was still only 19 in 1973...) and of course so was Michael Lee. Then there was a path for the young and hugely talented to get to a World Championship final (where then, of course, they had a chance to win it...: Lee nearly did so in his first Final in the rain in '77!)..

 

Whatever apologists for the GPs will say, the fact is it's a far, far more difficult route for a young rider to even break into the very closed shop nature of the GPs... To look ahead and see so many obstacles and missing years when in one's prime because not enterted into the system must be hugely discouraging for young riders...

 

Personally I believe Ward when he was World U-21 Champ should've entered the GPs but he opted not to... IF he was to do so again then frankly it would to me spell the death-knell of the GPs as a credible world championship... It says a lot for the state of the sport at world-class level when a talent of the magnitude of Darcy Ward might consider not entering the GPs..

 

And again I repeat, IF a World Final was to have been held this September or early October on a track of anyone's choice do I think that Darcy in the superb form he's in could have given Greg Hancock a massive run for his money..? Well 100% I do...: and frankly, those who say otherwise are (1) burying their heads in the, er, shale; and (2) clearly forgetting what Chris Harris did to Hancock when that particular young man (Bomber) got the bit between his teeth back at Cardiff a few years back!!

[engineman]

Spot on!

Darcy and Chris remind me of my all-time hero Peter Collins - and from my perspective the praise cannot get higher than that.

PC was a World Finalist as a teenager (I think he was still only 19 in 1973...) and of course so was Michael Lee. Then there was a path for the young and hugely talented to get to a World Championship final (where then, of course, they had a chance to win it...: Lee nearly did so in his first Final in the rain in '77!)..

 

Whatever apologists for the GPs will say, the fact is it's a far, far more difficult route for a young rider to even break into the very closed shop nature of the GPs... To look ahead and see so many obstacles and missing years when in one's prime because not enterted into the system must be hugely discouraging for young riders...

 

Personally I believe Ward when he was World U-21 Champ should've entered the GPs but he opted not to... IF he was to do so again then frankly it would to me spell the death-knell of the GPs as a credible world championship... It says a lot for the state of the sport at world-class level when a talent of the magnitude of Darcy Ward might consider not entering the GPs..

 

And again I repeat, IF a World Final was to have been held this September or early October on a track of anyone's choice do I think that Darcy in the superb form he's in could have given Greg Hancock a massive run for his money..? Well 100% I do...: and frankly, those who say otherwise are (1) burying their heads in the, er, shale; and (2) clearly forgetting what Chris Harris did to Hancock when that particular young man (Bomber) got the bit between his teeth back at Cardiff a few years back!!

 

 

But he hasn't beaten Pawlicki in the U 21 final round, & scored only 9pts in the previous round? Some would say he wasn't really trying, but it's hard to know the truth of that claim. Of course, Sayfutdinov moved on from U21 so Ward never beat him for the title.

 

As for comparisons with PC, I've thought quite a lot about that. It's difficult to make the comparison, but one thing is for certain, at equivalent stages in their careers, PC had achieved more, and had equipment which was not as good as Olsen, Mauger, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, of course Ward is good and will go on to do well. The question was about being world champion. Given that Adams, Sullivan, Wiltshire etc never achieved it, let alone Carter, Morton, Ray Wilson etc, it isn't being negative to conclude that there may be doubts about it. Jonsson has been "promising" for 10 years before he got a medal, and he looked just as impressive at 19.

Edited October 12, 2011 by engineman

[Grachan]

I'd say it's pretty much a given that Darcy Ward will become champion - and probably sooner rather than later. He's a great young talent, and the fact that the old boys still sominate the top of the sport says to me that there aren't many great young talents about.

 

Tomasz got his title. Greg made history. Anyone else due a swansong before the new boy takes control?

[ImpartialOne]

Spot on!

Darcy and Chris remind me of my all-time hero Peter Collins - and from my perspective the praise cannot get higher than that.

PC was a World Finalist as a teenager (I think he was still only 19 in 1973...) and of course so was Michael Lee. Then there was a path for the young and hugely talented to get to a World Championship final (where then, of course, they had a chance to win it...: Lee nearly did so in his first Final in the rain in '77!)..

 

Whatever apologists for the GPs will say, the fact is it's a far, far more difficult route for a young rider to even break into the very closed shop nature of the GPs... To look ahead and see so many obstacles and missing years when in one's prime because not enterted into the system must be hugely discouraging for young riders...

 

Personally I believe Ward when he was World U-21 Champ should've entered the GPs but he opted not to... IF he was to do so again then frankly it would to me spell the death-knell of the GPs as a credible world championship... It says a lot for the state of the sport at world-class level when a talent of the magnitude of Darcy Ward might consider not entering the GPs..

 

And again I repeat, IF a World Final was to have been held this September or early October on a track of anyone's choice do I think that Darcy in the superb form he's in could have given Greg Hancock a massive run for his money..? Well 100% I do...: and frankly, those who say otherwise are (1) burying their heads in the, er, shale; and (2) clearly forgetting what Chris Harris did to Hancock when that particular young man (Bomber) got the bit between his teeth back at Cardiff a few years back!!

This is so self contradicting I don't even know where to start. One moment you say the GP sucks the life out of new riders and the next you give an example of a man in about his 5th GP beating a man who had been at the top for over 10 years.

By the way, repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make any difference. We saw it the first time and it's still wrong.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

This is so self contradicting I don't even know where to start. One moment you say the GP sucks the life out of new riders and the next you give an example of a man in about his 5th GP beating a man who had been at the top for over 10 years.

By the way, repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make any difference. We saw it the first time and it's still wrong.

 

It's not in the least.

 

For whatever reason it's an absolute FACT that the GP system is seeing very old riders dominate in a way NEVER seen before in the sport. You give me a valid reason for that and I'll listen. IMHO one major reason is the huge and demoralising delay which awaits young talent before they can ever get into it or at least the impression of that: much in sport at the highest level is psychological..

 

And I'm not sorry to repeat what I think about Ward's chances against Hancock.. The lad's in superb form (have you not seen him...!) why on earth wouldn't I be bullish about his chances... Again you come with some rationale to contradict that view..

 

Tbh, I can't understand why people seem to want youngsters like Ward, Holder, Woffy, Eddie etc. to fail and cream themselves over the old 'uns. No disrespect to the likes of Greg but it hardly represents a rosy picture of the future of the sport that in the 2011 series he was by far the top man - at his age.

 

I was being mischievous about Harris because we all know that Hancock didn't ,er, exactly pull out all the stops to prevent that last bend pass at Cardiff 2007! If that had been a World Final and Hancock needed to win that race, everyone in the sport knows he'd have taken Bomber out wide and held onto win.. That he didn't said everything about the way Greg then saw his role in the GPs; fair play to him that he's come back from that four years later to win but I doubt he'd fancy Holder & Ward at full flow in a meeting which really mattered!! 

[ImpartialOne]

It's not in the least.

 

For whatever reason it's an absolute FACT that the GP system is seeing very old riders dominate in a way NEVER seen before in the sport. You give me a valid reason for that and I'll listen. IMHO one major reason is the huge and demoralising delay which awaits young talent before they can ever get into it or at least the impression of that: much in sport at the highest level is psychological..

 

And I'm not sorry to repeat what I think about Ward's chances against Hancock.. The lad's in superb form (have you not seen him...!) why on earth wouldn't I be bullish about his chances... Again you come with some rationale to contradict that view..

 

Tbh, I can't understand why people seem to want youngsters like Ward, Holder, Woffy, Eddie etc. to fail and cream themselves over the old 'uns. No disrespect to the likes of Greg but it hardly represents a rosy picture of the future of the sport that in the 2011 series he was by far the top man - at his age.

 

I was being mischievous about Harris because we all know that Hancock didn't ,er, exactly pull out all the stops to prevent that last bend pass at Cardiff 2007! If that had been a World Final and Hancock needed to win that race, everyone in the sport knows he'd have taken Bomber out wide and held onto win.. That he didn't said everything about the way Greg then saw his role in the GPs; fair play to him that he's come back from that four years later to win but I doubt he'd fancy Holder & Ward at full flow in a meeting which really mattered!! 

Ivan Mauger 1979, no different to the last two years.

 

Nobody is willing the youngster to fail, and I don't believe they are. It's just a fact that a series of 11/12 meetings brings the title to the most consistent, and that comes with age. What does it matter if they take 10 years to do it? I've already given you examples in Crump, Ermolenko, Loram, etc. Even Nielsen took 8 years and he was one of the greats and this was before the GPs.

 

Gary Havelock is a perfect example of what can happen to a rider who wins it too early. I said at the time I feared for his career as I didn't believe he would have the drive to win it a second time. All the years of striving is what makes a rider. To have it instantly does them no good at all.

[foreverblue]

It's not in the least.

 

For whatever reason it's an absolute FACT that the GP system is seeing very old riders dominate in a way NEVER seen before in the sport. You give me a valid reason for that and I'll listen. IMHO one major reason is the huge and demoralising delay which awaits young talent before they can ever get into it or at least the impression of that: much in sport at the highest level is psychological..

 

And I'm not sorry to repeat what I think about Ward's chances against Hancock.. The lad's in superb form (have you not seen him...!) why on earth wouldn't I be bullish about his chances... Again you come with some rationale to contradict that view..

 

Tbh, I can't understand why people seem to want youngsters like Ward, Holder, Woffy, Eddie etc. to fail and cream themselves over the old 'uns. No disrespect to the likes of Greg but it hardly represents a rosy picture of the future of the sport that in the 2011 series he was by far the top man - at his age.

 

I was being mischievous about Harris because we all know that Hancock didn't ,er, exactly pull out all the stops to prevent that last bend pass at Cardiff 2007! If that had been a World Final and Hancock needed to win that race, everyone in the sport knows he'd have taken Bomber out wide and held onto win.. That he didn't said everything about the way Greg then saw his role in the GPs; fair play to him that he's come back from that four years later to win but I doubt he'd fancy Holder & Ward at full flow in a meeting which really mattered!! 

From what i recall of that amazing night in 2007 was that Harris cut back up the inside of Hancock on the last bend.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

From what i recall of that amazing night in 2007 was that Harris cut back up the inside of Hancock on the last bend.

 

Hmm, what I recall was that Hancock took one mighty look behind him (ever seen him or indeed any other top rider do such a thing..?) clocked it was Harris rather than Crump and,er, then the British rider passed him...

And yes Harris does cut back on the inside but if Hancock had taken him out to the fence as they entered that final bend such a manoeuvre would've been impossible...

[foreverblue]

Hmm, what I recall was that Hancock took one mighty look behind him (ever seen him or indeed any other top rider do such a thing..?) clocked it was Harris rather than Crump and,er, then the British rider passed him...

And yes Harris does cut back on the inside but if Hancock had taken him out to the fence as they entered that final bend such a manoeuvre would've been impossible...

Hancock isnt Nicki he wouldnt do that,he did not let him pass, Harris was clearly faster than him and Hancock tried to stop his run round the outside and Harris nipped up the inside.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Hancock isnt Nicki he wouldnt do that,he did not let him pass, Harris was clearly faster than him and Hancock tried to stop his run round the outside and Harris nipped up the inside.

 

And the big look round and clear double take...???

[foreverblue]

And the big look round and clear double take...???

[/quote That was when he realised Harris was going to pass and there was nothing he could do about it