Trees Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 They wouldn't lose money if they took one bike on the back of a Citroën Now you're talking, those were the days haha Who's gonna be the first rider to find an old citroen and turn up at a meeting with their bike on the back, retro is cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Now you're talking, those were the days haha Who's gonna be the first rider to find an old citroen and turn up at a meeting with their bike on the back, retro is cool I don't know but I guarantee if Crumpy did it, they'd all be doing it within a couple of GPs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Why should it be made easier? It's the world championship. It's not meant to be easy. You have to prove you can be the best rider in the sport to be world champion, and that takes a hell of a lot of hard work, commitment, dedication and discipline to do that in any sport. Making it easier just devalues the whole thing. Exactly!! My exact point about the fact that under the current system it's considerably easier for those already in the bloody thing to stay in it... A less (considerably less..) than 50% chance of not being in it the following year... This was NOT the case with the old style World Championship for which, no matter who you were, you had to qualify each year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Exactly!! My exact point about the fact that under the current system it's considerably easier for those already in the bloody thing to stay in it... A less (considerably less..) than 50% chance of not being in it the following year... This was NOT the case with the old style World Championship for which, no matter who you were, you had to qualify each year! So who are all these teenagers that deserve to be in the GPs? Darcy wouldn't even be in it next year if it was purely down to qualifying, and I don't see anyone of a similar age who could challenge for the world title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sidney, Chris Holder managed to get in via qualifiers and 21 year old Vaculik wasn't many points away from the GPs either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 So who are all these teenagers that deserve to be in the GPs? Darcy wouldn't even be in it next year if it was purely down to qualifying, and I don't see anyone of a similar age who could challenge for the world title. Er, nice evasion (for the umpteenth time!) of the point!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Er, nice evasion (for the umpteenth time!) of the point!!! Likewise. Where are these riders? Simple question that you can't answer. What was your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 What was your question? Ha, ha, ha! You've never ONCE answered ANY of the points made about the fact that the GP series is largely a closed-shop massively favouring those in it... This is the whole point about how unfair the current series is compared to the previous proper World Championship system.. I don't expect you to start now - coz frankly there's nothing you can say to contradict that point as it's an absolute fact!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ha, ha, ha! You've never ONCE answered ANY of the points made about the fact that the GP series is largely a closed-shop massively favouring those in it... This is the whole point about how unfair the current series is compared to the previous proper World Championship system.. I don't expect you to start now - coz frankly there's nothing you can say to contradict that point as it's an absolute fact!! Are you sure? Well, despite you still avoiding my straight questions with a straight answer I will answer your points (please note that points don't actually need answering, which is probably why you are still waiting for answers, but I will anyway) You say the GP is a closed shop. And that it doesn't give youngsters any chance to challenge for the world title. Darcy Ward didn't qualify on merit as you would like, but still received a nomination to enter the series. Emil Sayfutdinov didn't qualify through a qualifying system but was handed a place through being World U-21 Champion, something that never happened during the old system. He went on to set the world alight in the difficult series to finish World No.3 at the age of 19. That isn't such a closed shop after all and proves that if you are good enough you will be selected to enter. So I ask you again, outright, who are these riders who should be competing for the world crown who can't get in? Just name names, it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Are you sure? Well, despite you still avoiding my straight questions with a straight answer I will answer your points (please note that points don't actually need answering, which is probably why you are still waiting for answers, but I will anyway) You say the GP is a closed shop. And that it doesn't give youngsters any chance to challenge for the world title. Darcy Ward didn't qualify on merit as you would like, but still received a nomination to enter the series. Emil Sayfutdinov didn't qualify through a qualifying system but was handed a place through being World U-21 Champion, something that never happened during the old system. He went on to set the world alight in the difficult series to finish World No.3 at the age of 19. That isn't such a closed shop after all and proves that if you are good enough you will be selected to enter. So I ask you again, outright, who are these riders who should be competing for the world crown who can't get in? Just name names, it's that simple. It's NOT that simple... If we had a proper World Championship riders would compete on a level playing field and who am I to predict who'd qualify and who wouldn't. You really are very conservative - what you want is the same old names year in year out... No world championship worth its salt should be one in which people are "selected to enter"; nor should it be one when it's so, so much easier to stay in it than it is to either drop out or qualify into.. Now those ARE simple facts!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's NOT that simple... If we had a proper World Championship riders would compete on a level playing field and who am I to predict who'd qualify and who wouldn't. You really are very conservative - what you want is the same old names year in year out... No world championship worth its salt should be one in which people are "selected to enter"; nor should it be one when it's so, so much easier to stay in it than it is to either drop out or qualify into.. Now those ARE simple facts!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hmm, the symbol of someone who has no means to defend his point of view...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's NOT that simple... If we had a proper World Championship riders would compete on a level playing field and who am I to predict who'd qualify and who wouldn't. You really are very conservative - what you want is the same old names year in year out... No world championship worth its salt should be one in which people are "selected to enter"; nor should it be one when it's so, so much easier to stay in it than it is to either drop out or qualify into.. Now those ARE simple facts!! What do you mean by proper world championship? To me it's very comparable to MotoGP, WSB, World Rally, F1 in terms of how many competitors change from year to year. Oh, and none of them other World Championships have a qualifying series at all, participation is purely down to money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Why should it be made easier? It's the world championship. It's not meant to be easy. You have to prove you can be the best rider in the sport to be world champion, and that takes a hell of a lot of hard work, commitment, dedication and discipline to do that in any sport. Making it easier just devalues the whole thing. I think Ward is a great example, of what parsloes is trying to say.Just say ward didnt qualify didnt get an invite for the world championships wouldnt that be a travesty.We all no hes quality puts bums on seats and is a draw card in speedway.Parsloes has said i agree it is a bit of a closed shop it does need freshening up.The world championships should be open to all,it isnt is it now.Martin yeates Wiggy reached the later rounds when in the national league room for a spoiler.My take is The masters in the 70s was hand picked the world championships need looking at you can always improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think Ward is a great example, of what parsloes is trying to say.Just say ward didnt qualify didnt get an invite for the world championships wouldnt that be a travesty.We all no hes quality puts bums on seats and is a draw card in speedway.Parsloes has said i agree it is a bit of a closed shop it does need freshening up.The world championships should be open to all,it isnt is it now.Martin yeates Wiggy reached the later rounds when in the national league room for a spoiler.My take is The masters in the 70s was hand picked the world championships need looking at you can always improve. That would probably prove he wasn't good enough anyway. As it is he has now got the chance to prove he is good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 That would probably prove he wasn't good enough anyway. As it is he has now got the chance to prove he is good enough. Thats my point he is good anough odvious he is.But an injury technicality could of stopped his quest for a world championship.Surely you aint saying he ward isnt good anough now are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 The gp's have a qualifying system,you have to be in the top eight to qualify.Maybe you could make all riders who dont make the top eight qualify rather than wild cards or a system that would use the riders averages may be fairer but to be fair most would say that we have the top riders in the gp's as it is and it could be said that with riders like Lindback who didnt make the top eight but qualified through the qualification system and Bjarne also qualified through the system and most would say he isnt good enough for the gp's now.So Ward and Emil apart where are the new riders who should be in the gp's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hmm, the symbol of someone who has no means to defend his point of view...! I've tried to ask you simple straight questions bur you can't or won't answer them so it's impossible to have a debate with you. Everyone can clearly see you have come unstuck with this and instead of admitting you're wrong you keep changing your argument and avoiding the questions put to you, so all I can do is laugh at you. Tell you what, I'm going to give you another chance to gain some face on this. Have another go: Who are these potential world title challenging riders that you claim can't get into the "closed shop of a GP series"? Come on Parsloes, concentrate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thats my point he is good anough odvious he is.But an injury technicality could of stopped his quest for a world championship.Surely you aint saying he ward isnt good anough now are you? No, you're starting to get as confused as Parsley now. The fact is he got a selection despite not qualifying so it's no different than if he'd got injured, he would have got another chance through selection. In the old World Final system, how many riders went out through injury in a qualifyer? Hardly any got seeded to the World Final. So yes it would be a travesty if Ward got injured and wasn't selected, but he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Exactly!! My exact point about the fact that under the current system it's considerably easier for those already in the bloody thing to stay in it... A less (considerably less..) than 50% chance of not being in it the following year... This was NOT the case with the old style World Championship for which, no matter who you were, you had to qualify each year! I have to say that I don't think that SOME of your posts are as totally non-sensiscal as others seem to feel. BUT this one takes the biscuit for being the most deranged I have seen in a long time. It is your contention that the riders who stay in the series by finishing in the top eight of the GP "HAVE NOT HAD TO QUALIFY". That is bonkers. They have competed in 11 separate Grand Prix over 60 plus races in about eight countries over the course of a six month period against all the best riders in the world. And scored enough points over that time to be in the top eight so that they QUALIFY for the following year's series. How on earth do you make that 'NOT HAVING to QUALIFY', for good ness sake! No World Finalists of ANY past vintage have had to 'QUALIFY' by such rigorous means. Edited October 18, 2011 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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