Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Chris Morton 1980's performances I think I stopped following really around 1983 would bear some comparison with Michaneks 1970's aside from the fact the latter got a win. Nice to chat Nice to as well! Not sure I totally followed all of the last posting but I think have to take some issue with the comparison between Chris Morton & Anders Michanek. Michanek was surely the best rider in the world in '73, was an outstanding winner of the World Final in '74 and dropped only one point (to winner Olsen) in finishing second in '75. Mort couldn't in truth claim any of those things in any year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Nice to as well! Not sure I totally followed all of the last posting but I think have to take some issue with the comparison between Chris Morton & Anders Michanek. Michanek was surely the best rider in the world in '73, was an outstanding winner of the World Final in '74 and dropped only one point (to winner Olsen) in finishing second in '75. Mort couldn't in truth claim any of those things in any year... I would agree with that to be honest. Michanek was head and shoulders in 1973 and pretty darn good in 75. No league form to judge 1974 on but a World Title is a pretty good yardstick. Mort, for all his consistency in the early eighties at league level his lack of starting technique meant he was never a really serious contender for the big one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hi just redressing what looked like my oversight with Morton my point being that Morton was late 70's to mid late 80's I think and given the amount of World Finals he reached looked low on my original rating. I really am going out on a limb here and am struggling hard to remember the 13 Heat Format but Belle Vue particularly did not have their best rider at Number 1 like most other teams so as a consequence their best rider Collins rode against the opposing number 1 more than if they he were number 1. It is a very good idea actually as most teams are looking for 11-12 points from their number 1 at home. With Collins and Morton against you all night there was a serious chance of your number 1 being beaten up to 3 times concevably 3rd in heat 12. Now you number 1 has scored perhaps between 7-9 points with your number 4's score also low your scratching about for points. If I wrong I will find some Old programmes on E bay to get that right I am sure that the home number 1's met the away numbers 3 and 5 twice in heat 12 both of them (Sure thats right 1-4 vs 3-5) so a strong number 3 or 5 was of great value. The number 1's meet once. Ok the Belle Vue I remember had Wilkinson at 1 surely he was not the best of the 3 heat leaders he did guest for Wimbledon once I remember either for Janssons death or Jancarz's early season blues and rode well but not spectacular. Good to Talk Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hi just redressing what looked like my oversight with Morton my point being that Morton was late 70's to mid late 80's I think and given the amount of World Finals he reached looked low on my original rating. I really am going out on a limb here and am struggling hard to remember the 13 Heat Format but Belle Vue particularly did not have their best rider at Number 1 like most other teams so as a consequence their best rider Collins rode against the opposing number 1 more than if they he were number 1. It is a very good idea actually as most teams are looking for 11-12 points from their number 1 at home. With Collins and Morton against you all night there was a serious chance of your number 1 being beaten up to 3 times concevably 3rd in heat 12. Now you number 1 has scored perhaps between 7-9 points with your number 4's score also low your scratching about for points. If I wrong I will find some Old programmes on E bay to get that right I am sure that the home number 1's met the away numbers 3 and 5 twice in heat 12 both of them (Sure thats right 1-4 vs 3-5) so a strong number 3 or 5 was of great value. The number 1's meet once. Ok the Belle Vue I remember had Wilkinson at 1 surely he was not the best of the 3 heat leaders he did guest for Wimbledon once I remember either for Janssons death or Jancarz's early season blues and rode well but not spectacular. Good to Talk Thanks again. The home number 3 (at Belle Vue invariably PC) met the away number 1 in heats 11 and 13. In heat 13 he was joined by the home number 5 (generall Mort in that era) so yes, it was never easy for a visiting number 1 to get a max at Belle Vue in that era. Teams often played about with line ups, Exeter were known to have Ivan at 2 to combat a team using a tac sub in an otherwise weak heat 8 if Exeter had built a 6 point lead. It does of course leave you vulnerable elsewhere but that was the art of team managing, a modern team manager is largely redundant to be honest, fixed gates, riders having to take certain positions in the team combine to give him no leeway at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thank you for that post lot to learn about modern speedway for me then . Thanks it was also a good ploy away if you then accepted the home number 1 would probably win Heat 1 but then be up against it after that. Wimbledon were just lucky to have 7 to put out i think LOL Thanks all for posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 i was never a fan of DJ also Kennett i thought was just a whiteline rider but i was wrong.But make no mistake Gordon was a top class rider and he had a great career.Who was the better out of DJ and Kennett at all the northern venues and Exeter? Gordon for me. i don't know about Exeter..but i started seeing speedway in 1978 and watched at Hyde Road and Jessup was twice the rider around there than Kennett was...i never ever regarded Kennett as any threat to Collins and Morton round Hyde Road and he never seemed to have the pace at all....whereas, especially for 3 or 4 years Jessup was a major threat..obviously from the gate but he took some picking off ..in fact he was the first rider i ever saw beat Peter Collins at Hyde Road..and i had been going a few weeks i think Jessup was never a great rider but he was a great gater and very fast whereby i never actually saw Kennett pull up any trees, although he was obviously a better rider than i ever saw in the flesh..although i did see him ride at Milton Keynes against Bradford once and look pretty good for a 40 plus rider ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 i don't know about Exeter..but i started seeing speedway in 1978 and watched at Hyde Road and Jessup was twice the rider around there than Kennett was... For a small-track rider, Kennett could be very, very good on some of the bigger tracks. Thinking about it, however, he seemed to prefer the flatter tracks (White City, Swindon etc) rather than the big banked arenas, such as Belle Vue, Exeter, and Halifax. Just an observation... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtooley Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Think this is the best assessment. I would have Carter marginally behind Collins and Lee when both at their peak. Little doubt he was world class and he would be one of the top riders in any generation even in the GPs now. Personally I'd rate Kenny Carter as one of the best British riders of my time watching speedway. Not as good as Lee or Collins maybe, but I've always thought of him as better than Havelock and Loram even if he didn't ever make it to the top of the world. Carter should, maybe, have won in 1982. That was the year he could and should have won it really, and I finally saw good quality video of the incident with Penhall a couple of years ago that confirmed that he was taken off by Juicy Brucey. If Penhall had been excluded, I think the title of World Champ would certainly have fitted with Carter better than Les Collins and I think he would have won had he been in the re-run of that race. Remember going to see Halifax v Swindon in the early 80's and Phil Crump beating him twice in the match and again in the second half final. And it made for a fabulous night because of that. There aren't many British riders that have had such an effect as that. I mean to say, Phil Crump was a great rider yet we were, like, "wow! He did Kenny Carter at the Shay" I agree that I don't think he would have had an impact on the Neilsen/Gundersen era though. Would have had to do it before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Think this is the best assessment. I would have Carter marginally behind Collins and Lee when both at their peak. Little doubt he was world class and he would be one of the top riders in any generation even in the GPs now. Agree at the time didn'nt realise how good Carter was i was a Lee fan but Carter was top notch.!He was world class and if fit would be a threat throughout the 80,s and Nielsen and Gundersen would Not of won 7 world titles between them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Firstly anyone who achieves in their chose sport has talent just shown in different ways. Who was the more talented gifted snooker player Davis (6 titles) or White (0 titles) which proves that natural talent doesnt mean you are better or more successful. Joe Screen is a more talented motorcyclist but in terms of success is nowhere near Carter. How do you rank success? In the world final Wigg, Tatum, Doncaster and Chris Louis have all been on the rostrum and 3 of those riders have won as many british crowns as Carter so in terms of success they may rank ahead of KC but i think Carter had more natural ability then any of them, but Wigg and Tatum were exceptional on longtrack as well. Scott Nicholls has won 7 british crowns but doesnt make him better than Carter as this era is easier though Scott can only beat what is there. In my opinion based in my lifetime 1976 onwards this is my ranking. The top 4 due to success in world finals and british champs would be Peter Collins, Loram , Lee and Jessup in any order. Close behind would be Havvy. Then a group of Carter, Wigg and Tatum Then the likes of Simmons, Louis and Screeny and Doncaster and Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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