Sgp 2012 Wild Cards Now Clear?

[Fourentee]

i still think the the charity cases Lindgren and Harris should be given a leave from the GP series until they can get themselves in.

 

Lindgren, of course, qualified for this year's series through the Challenge rounds.

[PHILIPRISING]

THERE is unquestionably a paucity of candidates for GP wild cards other than those who participated this year... Pedersen, Harris and Pedersen. If (as expected) Ward declines on the basis that his off-track organisation is not ready and because of the money being waved in front of him by Torun (as a non GP rider if that proposed rule remains) the 2012 line-up will be sadly lacking in new faces.

 

There does appear to be a promising crop of new talent coming through: Janowski, the Pawlicki brothers, Vaculik, young Swedes and Danes and a few Aussies as well. But none are ripe for picking at this stage and that is creating a dilemma.

 

The three who qualified through the Challenge are not going to put hundreds of bums on seats either, which makes Ward's likely decision so disappointing. Not only he is an exceptional young rider, he is pure box office.

 

The situation could have been far worse had the likes of Crump, Gollob and Hancock decided to hang up their leathers. Thankfully that isn't the case and all three will start next year with realistic hopes of attaining the top spot. There have been signs that Nicki Pedersen is on the verge of moving back into contention and both Jonsson, Hampel and a fit Sayfutdinov will be genuine contenders. But the likes of Bjerre and Holder need to step in the gas.

[engineman]

Statistics can be used to show either side of an argument. Harris's figures from the GP series, 74 points from 57 rides is only a 5.19 average

 

Which means that Harris' 2011 GP average is about the same as THJ's League average!

Edited October 10, 2011 by engineman

[ImpartialOne]

your methods ARE strange. There is no way 7+7+7 which equals 21 can be anything else then 7 when divided by three, Which is an average score of 7 per meeting, or 1,4 points per heat.

I also think there is something wrong with SGP's score. Take a look at this link: http://speedwaygp.com/swcresults/32 and heat 22.

THJ is positioned furthest to the left like he had won that heat but he has no point listed in that heat and the table below says 0.

Troy Batchelor is listed as 3rd in the heat but in the table its says 0 for his 5th ride.

 

It doesn't matter really as i still think the the charity cases Lindgren and Harris should be given a leave from the GP series until they can get themselves in. Its time to let other riders have a go.

How is it 1.4 points per race? 21 divided by 18 =1.17. X that by 4 and you have a true average.

 

Funnily enough my "strange" methods are those used by everyone in speedway bar you and have been since as far back as you care to go. I've explained it as simply as I can, if you choose to inflate it to look flattering that's up to you but as far as averages are concerned you are wrong. I guarantee 99% of people on this forum will agree with me because it's a mathematical fact.

[T.N.T.]

Darcy Ward will NOT be in the Grand Prix next season by the looks of it now. ... He would be crazy to turn down a regular team place in Poland alongside Chris Holder, roughly 18 big pay days with hardly any costs. Travelling around on the GP Series take a big investment and travelling arrangements.

 

 

 

 

One thing that is going to throw things wide open though is that they are talking about limiting each country to THREE riders maximum .... Poland will have Gollob, Pepe and Jarek .... Sweden - AJ, Freddie and Antonio ...... then you have Bjerre, Nicki and Bjarne from Denmark..... Australia - Crump, Holder and ? .... , Emil from Russia, Greg from USA

 

Thats 13 riders with no more allowed from Denmark, Sweden and Poland.

 

 

14 - Chris Harris - England

 

 

 

The final place then to ..... ?

[ImpartialOne]

I seriously hope this is wrong about limiting each country to 3 riders. There can only be one reason for it and that is to try and justify Harris' inclusion. What if 3 Poles qualify and 2 more get through the GP Challenge? It's ludicrous.

[PHILIPRISING]

I seriously hope this is wrong about limiting each country to 3 riders. There can only be one reason for it and that is to try and justify Harris' inclusion. What if 3 Poles qualify and 2 more get through the GP Challenge? It's ludicrous.

 

100 per cent wrong ...

[speedy17]

Seeing as they love Zagar so much, I wouldn't be suprised to see him picked if Ward opts out!

 

Harris

Pedersen

Lindgren/Jonasson

Ward/Zagar

[ImpartialOne]

100 per cent wrong ...

Glad to hear it.

[T.N.T.]

I did say that I heard they were TALKING about there being a limit on riders from one country

 

 

Personally I cant see it happening as one country could have four or five top riders an it would be wrong to limit them ... for me its the best 12 riders plus 3 qualifiers that should be in the GP's

 

 

IMO The top 10 should be seeded leaving just 2 wild card nominations and a Wild Card at each event

[ImpartialOne]

I did say that I heard they were TALKING about there being a limit on riders from one country

 

 

Personally I cant see it happening as one country could have four or five top riders an it would be wrong to limit them ... for me its the best 12 riders plus 3 qualifiers that should be in the GP's

 

 

IMO The top 10 should be seeded leaving just 2 wild card nominations and a Wild Card at each event

THEY say an awful lot, don't they.

 

(Any similarity in style between this and PHILIPRISING's posts is purely coincidental)

Edited October 10, 2011 by ImpartialOne

[manchesterpaul]

Ghostwalker i so hate to have to correct or disagree with you as you have so much valuable input to the forums but....???? i'm very puzzled by this. Surely there is not a speedway fan in the world (or a mathematician) that would dispute the TRUE average from the stats provided is indeed 4.67.

 

By your argument an unbeaten rider scoring 3 3 from 2 rides would average 6.00 and a reserve scoring 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 from seven rides would have an average of 7.00

 

 

British speedway averages are always calculated from 4 rides. So he is simply apportioning down the points scored into a format comparable to club speedway. Therefore 4.67, which is second string level, and not really impressive enough to justify a SGP place.

 

??? Steve i know. I was pointing out that the 4.67 is indeed THE correct average per meeting and not 7.00.

 

OK to try and clarify the point again for our friend Ghostwalker. Let's take a British Elite League club and ask him which of the following two riders he would like to sign if he had a team.

 

Rider A wins all of his 4 programmed rides = 3,3,3,3, = 12 points in the meeting.

A true average of 12.00.

Ghostwalker average of 12.00.

 

Rider B a reserve takes seven rides and never wins a race always finishing second. = 2,2,2,2,2,2,2, = 14 points in the meeting.

A true average of 8.00.

Ghostwalker average of 14.00!!!

 

I think we would all sign Rider A who wins every race and not the one who never wins a race.

 

So Thomas H Jonasson's true average for the 'used since time began' method of speedway stats is indeed 4.67.

 

If you want to give him an average for the competition's format it is 7.00 but do remember and take into account that is 7pts from 6 rides, which is not a top average. I mean a rider who averages 10.00 pts in a league calculation (4 rides) would average 15.00 in the world cup format (6 rides). Also, a 7.00 league average is 10.50 when converted to the 6 ride format of THJ's Ghostwalker quoted average in the world cup format.

[ImpartialOne]

I'm amazed it even needs explaining to be perfectly honest.

[Ghostwalker]

I'm amazed it even needs explaining to be perfectly honest.

 

i understand what you are saying but i don't give d*m* about your average formulas. if a rider rides 3 meetings and scores 7 points in each meeting the rider

have scored 7 points.

 

I also find it surprising that you need to have things explained. 21 is 21 and not 14. a formula is just biased way of judging a performance.

And who decided that your formula is the correct?

 

if you have three baskets with 7 eggs in each. If you then put all of the eggs in one basket. How many eggs do have in that basket?

Normally it would be 21 eggs. Or do you have 14 eggs? If you then divide the 21 eggs into three equally big piles, how many eggs do you then have

in each pile? ooooh lets see, it must be 7.

 

Your worse at maths then a 5 year old.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Ghostwalker

[ImpartialOne]

i understand what you are saying but i don't give d*m* about your average formulas. if a rider rides 3 meetings and scores 7 points in each meeting the rider

have scored 7 points.

 

I also find it surprising that you need to have things explained. 21 is 21 and not 14. a formula is just biased way of judging a performance.

And who decided that your formula is the correct?

 

if you have three baskets with 7 eggs in each. If you then put all of the eggs in one basket. How many eggs do have in that basket?

 

Normally it would be 21 eggs. Or do you have 14 eggs? If you then divide the 21 eggs into three equally big piles, how many eggs do you then have

in each pile? ooooh lets see, it must be 7.

 

Your worse at maths then a 5 year old.

And you're worse at spelling than my cat.

 

Where did you get 14 from? I never mentioned 14.

 

So are you still trying to say that 7 points from 6 rides is a good average? Forget eggs, the only comparison we need to eggs is that you are well beaten on this.

 

If you wish to count it as a 7.00 average then you must agree that it is an average from 18.00, which doesn't back up your theory of it being a good performance, which was my original point.

 

If you still can't grasp it, tell me why the likes of Chris Holder and Darcy Ward are not on 13.00 averages in the Elite League. They have five races almost every meeting so why are their averages so low?

 

PS: It's not "my formula". By saying it is suggests I dreamt it up out of the blue.

 

Here's a little test:

 

A rider scores:

32333=14

1321=7

21332=11

 

What is his average?

Edited October 11, 2011 by ImpartialOne

[Humphrey Appleby]

THERE is unquestionably a paucity of candidates for GP wild cards other than those who participated this year... Pedersen, Harris and Pedersen.

 

That the premier competition apparently can't find new riders worthy of inclusion each year, is surely a tragic indictment of the SGP and the sport as a whole. I'm not suggesting to bring back the World Final, but that used to have hundreds of riders trying to qualify and had there not been a daft qualifying system for years, most of the riders would have been worthy qualifiers.

 

Hancock, Crump and Gollob will hang up their leathers at some point, and riders will simply have to be found to replace them. Quite honestly, I'd also rather see some new faces even if they're not in their depth, because one of the things that made the SGP so boring a couple of years back was because it ended-up being virtually a closed shop.

[fullbore]

for me its the best 12 riders plus 3 qualifiers that should be in the GP's

 

Well with bomber at No. 11 that's him in

 

The problem with the riders that come through the challenge is that even though they've earned the right there always seems to be at least one that isn't GP standard.

 

Niamh

[PHILIPRISING]

That the premier competition apparently can't find new riders worthy of inclusion each year, is surely a tragic indictment of the SGP and the sport as a whole. I'm not suggesting to bring back the World Final, but that used to have hundreds of riders trying to qualify and had there not been a daft qualifying system for years, most of the riders would have been worthy qualifiers.

 

Hancock, Crump and Gollob will hang up their leathers at some point, and riders will simply have to be found to replace them. Quite honestly, I'd also rather see some new faces even if they're not in their depth, because one of the things that made the SGP so boring a couple of years back was because it ended-up being virtually a closed shop.

 

I DON"T think it is an indictment of the SGP rather the lack of properly organised and co-ordinated youth policies arose the speedway nations and especially in the UK. But there is light at the end of the tunnel (though sadly not for Britain unless Woffinden, who has the talent, comes of age) with Janowski, the Pawlicki brothers, Vaculik, Jonasson and a batch of kids in Denmark and Australia. Possibly Russia as well. Racing speedway is still an attractive proposition for many as long as the Polish clubs keep trumping up the cash.

 

However, looks very much as though Hancock will be the last of the US dynasty.