Ghostwalker Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 You have to remember, Harris and Lindgren ride all over the place. Its very hard for them to compete in the qualifiers without missing league meetings or they won't get any time to rest during the season. Personally I wish the Grand Prix challenge included riders 9-15 in the current field and then the top 5 from the two semi finals. well i stil think that even if they are riding in multiple leagues, they should try and qualify. rather then just waiting for the wild card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Personally I wish the Grand Prix challenge included riders 9-15 in the current field and then the top 5 from the two semi finals. very sensible idea and, that way, a cut and dried system to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Brown Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 You have to remember, Harris and Lindgren ride all over the place. Its very hard for them to compete in the qualifiers without missing league meetings or they won't get any time to rest during the season. Personally I wish the Grand Prix challenge included riders 9-15 in the current field and then the top 5 from the two semi finals. Yes but they have to make the same choices other make. Something has to give and if they choose to given the GP Qualifiers a miss then its the GP that also has to miss if they don't qualify I would personally do away with the wildcard process anyway, whether 9-15 all deserve a 2nd chance I am not sure but can certainly see the logic of dropping out the last 4 and adding more from the qualification process. If the 9-12 riders are good enough then they would come through, if they don't then bad luck Riding is the GP series should be something you have to earn on the track and not in the organisers board room Just my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted September 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) For one reason and one very good reason only......as with pretty much every sport on the planet for decades and decades provision is made for a hosting nation competitor or team to be a participant. Even the mightiest richest sport in the world Football has to grant the host nation a guaranteed place. It's continental team championships will often have sparsely populated terrraces when the host nation is not involved in a match during a tournament. Utter rubbish,Italy have a GP,how many Italian riders are in the GP series,Croatia has a GP,how many Croatian riders are in the GP,Czech Republic has a GP,how many Czech riders are in the GP. Where the host nation is weak theres always the wild card and right now thats the best any GB rider can hope for. Utter(er) rubbish as Italy, Croatia and Czech Republic don't have to maintain interest on their country's biggest TV sports platform throughout a whole summer There are sports in the wings salivating over the prospect of receiving the airtime and, in effect, free advertising that speedway receives on Sky. If the SGP only had the one Wild Card appearance of an English rider per season it wouldn't be very long at all before the British Grand Prix is the ONLY GP to be shown. Edited September 25, 2011 by manchesterpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) Yes but they have to make the same choices other make. Something has to give and if they choose to given the GP Qualifiers a miss then its the GP that also has to miss if they don't qualify I would personally do away with the wildcard process anyway, whether 9-15 all deserve a 2nd chance I am not sure but can certainly see the logic of dropping out the last 4 and adding more from the qualification process. If the 9-12 riders are good enough then they would come through, if they don't then bad luck Riding is the GP series should be something you have to earn on the track and not in the organisers board room Just my view i agree with most of this post, although i think one wc could be kept just in case we get a situation like last year with Emil, where he got injured in the beginning of the season and then got injured again in the comeback. I such cases i think a Wc could be justified when having in mind what Emil showed the year before. as i've said before, its not actually the wild card system itself that the problem lies within the use of the system. If we would have a clear set of rules and definitions for wild card a system with maybe two wild card it could work but i doubt BSI will change anything because its probably very convenient for them to have the currents system where they in a routine manner just hands out the wild cards to Lindgren, Harris and the other two who finished 9-12 ish. Edited September 25, 2011 by Ghostwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 For one reason and one very good reason only ...... as with pretty much every sport on the planet for decades and decades provision is made for a hosting nation competitor or team to be a participant. So next season the Wild Card picks should go to an Italian, a Czech, a Croatian and possibly a German ..... (Who would be the Welsh rider ?) Darcy Ward tried to qualify but didnt make it through to the final while Fredrik Lindgren has gone through the qualifiers every season and last year had to compete in a race off to get this years place. So he qualified on merit .... This year I'm not sure if Fred even went in the qualifiers and if he didn't why not as he has always done them before. Basically with the standard of riders already in the line up, it crazy not to change it to the TOP 10 automatically qualify as the riders that finish 9th or 10th are usually top class riders. ... Leave the GP Challenge with 3 spots and then 2 Wild Cards In my opinion Fredrik Lindgren, Nicki Pedersen and Darcy Ward should get picked and looking at the options .... Bomber the final spot too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Might as well just change it to top 8 or so qualify and the rest compete in the GP challenge. Lets face it no-one outside the top 8 currently would be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) F1 -- any nation's team as long as it can pay the entry fee, any driever if he can bring in sponsors. Who knows,maybe that could be the way the GPs will go someday,(or is? ) Harris is a class asset to the racing,shame he has had problems this year but certainly adds more to the GPs than a lot of riders that are mentioned or finished above him,those in charge hold all the cards at the end of the day Edited September 26, 2011 by Gearhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 So next season the Wild Card picks should go to an Italian, a Czech, a Croatian and possibly a German ..... (Who would be the Welsh rider ?) Darcy Ward tried to qualify but didnt make it through to the final while Fredrik Lindgren has gone through the qualifiers every season and last year had to compete in a race off to get this years place. So he qualified on merit .... This year I'm not sure if Fred even went in the qualifiers and if he didn't why not as he has always done them before. Basically with the standard of riders already in the line up, it crazy not to change it to the TOP 10 automatically qualify as the riders that finish 9th or 10th are usually top class riders. ... Leave the GP Challenge with 3 spots and then 2 Wild Cards In my opinion Fredrik Lindgren, Nicki Pedersen and Darcy Ward should get picked and looking at the options .... Bomber the final spot too What is the point of having wild cards at all if they always are going to be handed out to Harris and Lindgren? Why should they always be favoured before anyone else? I'd say that since both of them entered the GPs on wild card its about time they lets someone else have a try. So far Harris have received wild cards for 4 out 5 seasons and Freddie for 3 out of 4 seasons and they still don't manage to get in on merit more then once on these tries. So imo they have had more then enough chances especially if they can't qualify more then once on so many tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HasseHolmqvist Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Cannot see what all the fuss is about .. we always end up with some crap riders in the GP anyway, whether they qualified or not. Quite simple really we ARE a major sppedway nation ... we offer more meetings than anywhere else in Europe so we get treated like one. If we want a rider in the GP we WILL get one ... the way of the world and nobody is gonna change it. Nice to see Janus doing so well after all the hysteria of him MUST getting a place this year ... another overated Pole who just aint up to the task in hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Cannot see what all the fuss is about .. we always end up with some crap riders in the GP anyway, whether they qualified or not. Quite simple really we ARE a major sppedway nation ... we offer more meetings than anywhere else in Europe so we get treated like one. If we want a rider in the GP we WILL get one ... the way of the world and nobody is gonna change it. Nice to see Janus doing so well after all the hysteria of him MUST getting a place this year ... another overated Pole who just aint up to the task in hand well his wc was justified when the WC was handed out. He was really excellent last season. but the direct opposite this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I think BSI have a difficult decision to make this year as I am sure that they like to keep things fresh and would prefer that the same guys werent offered wildcards...... Bomber has had rubbish machinery this season but ultimately who's fault is that? If being in the top 8 of the world involves managing equipment as well as blasting around the boards (and the occasional good gate) then that is what must be achieved............ I dont buy into the sob story of this season....... there are only two guys who have dropped (plummeted) out of the top 8, and Rune has been mangled up for most of it All that said, Bomber just reminded everyone of what he can achieve, and with another podium could in fact catch back up to a respectable points position In the case of Freddie, Bomber & Nicki (yes Nicki 3 time world champion Pedersen is also about to make it 2 years on the bounce failing to make it in the top 8) I guess in the end aside from corporate requirements, it needs to be decided who is ready and good enough to take their places The top 10 (for example) from Dolgin's ratings system not currently included in the GP's are: Pepe, Grigory Laguta, Sully, Zagar, Gapinski, Kylmakorpi, Miedzinski, Walasek, Kasprzak, Rico........... Pepe, Sully, Zagar, Walasek, Kasprzak and Rico have already had poor seasons adrift and propping up the table (in most cases more than once)......... Laguta is the only one who stands out for me as being able to rival Freddie, Bomber or Nicki over a GP series the only other guy on Dolgin's list i'd consider is #31 THJ and then we have the finances, team and machinery that a rider is bringing with him into the competition....... it has been quite clear that some of the previously mentioned guys just did not invest enough or put the right guys around them in the seasons where they were the whipping boys................ if Laguta is going to have the same machinery and investment as his brother then surely it does more harm than good? I suspect in the end Bomber will get the wildcard, even if he probably won't deserve it..... if he does get it then he should bloody well make sure that he picks up next year where he left off........... if he doesnt get the wildcard then it will be due to him being beyond rubbish in Gorzow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) spook, Pepe won't need a wild card as he qualified via the Grand Prix Challenge. The same goes for Antonio and Bjarne. Also you could argue what its worth most, finishing some 30p behind the nr8 or finishing 4th in the qualifier 1p behind the last qualifier. Vaculik have not been particular impressive in Sweden though this season, 9 meetings and some 45p only. Another name that cannot be overlooked is Maciej Janowski, who has finished 5th in the 2009 U21 world Champs, he was 2nd in 2010 and is currently leadingthis years u21 world champs series head of Dennis Andersson in 2nd, Darcy Ward in 3rd, Martin Vaculik in 4th Patryk Dudek in 5th and Przemysław Pawlicki in 6th. On the other hand he is Polish and we all know what that means... SO imo both Freddie and Harris have burnt their bridges by not riding in the qualifiers. Freddie has a 100% rate of failure in finishing top 8 in the 4 seasons he have been a full-time GP rider. Although Lindgren managed to go through via last years GP challenge. For Harris its an 80% rate of failure of managing to finish top 8. Edited September 26, 2011 by Ghostwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) So next season the Wild Card picks should go to an Italian, a Czech, a Croatian and possibly a German ..... (Who would be the Welsh rider ?) I don't see any Welsh Grand Prix on the schedule. I do see a British Grand Prix though. As i mentioned in my previous reply to you Italy, Croatia and Czech Republic don't have to maintain interest on their country's biggest TV sports platform throughout a whole summer. Therefore in the examples you quote the meeting Wild Card suffices for those countries. I myself am perfectly happy to watch the whole series without any British representation as it's the sport itself that comes first with me. If there is a local team or rider to cheer on that is a bonus. However, most people are not of the inclination to watch a series full of 'Johnny Foreigners'. Markedly more so when it comes to casual sports viewers which Sky obviously seek to add to the viewing figures. Edited September 26, 2011 by manchesterpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Ghostwalker oops I'd forgotten Pepe is back to haunt us again next year re: 30 points behind #8 in GP's or 1pt behind #3 in Challenge ...... its all swings and roundabouts GW ...... I think what the GP era has shown us up to now is that a rider has to be ready and prepared........... I also like the look of Janowski and Vaculik but the question of if they are ready or would be prepared is a different one entirely... and in itself a question that isnt easy to know the answer to as how do we know until they get there? I agree with you that entering the qualifiers is important and the intention of it should be mandatory for any Wildcard hopeful... however everything is telling us that BSI dont share our feelings, as with the quote below, if anything it provides BSI with more options if those in contention dont go and have a disastrous qualifying campaign for everyone to point and refer to I'll eat my hand if there isnt a Brit permanently in the GP field next year. It would be preferable if Bomber can string some decent performances together though and qualify as of right again. The handouts are an embarrasment. Fully agree about guys not entering qualifiers being pathetic Henry, its become a game of chess and diplomacy. Time for a shake up and it being mandatory that anyone not finishing in the top 8 has to enter Qualification the following season if they want a chance to participate in the GP's the year after that........ I suspect though that it is IMG more than anyone else who is happy with things the way they are as it allows them more options happy about Antonio qualifying and he is starting to look like the guy that everyone tipped him to be........... what a shame though that the fast rising Vaculik didnt quite get there... and instead Pepe did! ....... Pepe can be a great rider to watch... but as he has proven time and time again... not in the GP's................... and hopefully we will be getting the new Bjarne instead of the old one link I think you are being too literal tbh GW ..... we know for right or for wrong IMG/BSI's wilcard behaviour usually depends on a few aspects..... 1) quota.... if there are 4 riders qualified from your nation for next year forget about getting a wildcard..... and in recent years it has even come down to 3.......... 2) does your face fit?..... there havent been too many jarring episodes but Holta and Andersen both come to mind....... 3) did you finish within a respectable distance of the top 8?...... its really only been Bomber where IMG relaxed this one........... 4) is it financially imperative that your nation is represented by x riders?..... in recent years this has become obvious because of poor British results...... but we have seen it in effect to a lesser degree with the Swedes and the Danes over the years, getting a 3rd or 4th rider in ...... and no doubt the 'British problem' will be experienced by some unfortunate nation in the future Edited September 26, 2011 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 re- janowski , vaculik, Pavlic, Dennis etc.,... i agree that they probably are not ready but as late as a year ago people were making claims thatthe U21 champion should get a free spot into the GPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUDGIE Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) ...Italy have a GP,how many Italian riders are in the GP series,Croatia has a GP,how many Croatian riders are in the GP,Czech Republic has a GP,how many Czech riders are in the GP. None of the countries mentioned can influence the line up, however if you have a 70,000 seat stadium to fill and its your money, and you can do something to influence the crowd level what do you think will happen? You may also be influenced by the fact that one of your regular Customers may not be buying something with no representation in its home market????? You need to get into the real world. By the way this doesn't imply that I believe that the World Championship should not be contested by the best 16 riders that are available. Edited September 26, 2011 by BUDGIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) For one reason and one very good reason only......as with pretty much every sport on the planet for decades and decades provision is made for a hosting nation competitor or team to be a participant. Even the mightiest richest sport in the world Football has to grant the host nation a guaranteed place. It's continental team championships will often have sparsely populated terrraces when the host nation is not involved in a match during a tournament. Utter rubbish,Italy have a GP,how many Italian riders are in the GP series,Croatia has a GP,how many Croatian riders are in the GP,Czech Republic has a GP,how many Czech riders are in the GP. Utter(er) rubbish as Italy, Croatia and Czech Republic don't have to maintain interest on their country's biggest TV sports platform throughout a whole summer There are sports in the wings salivating over the prospect of receiving the airtime and, in effect, free advertising that speedway receives on Sky. If the SGP only had the one Wild Card appearance of an English rider per season it wouldn't be very long at all before the British Grand Prix is the ONLY GP to be shown. Utter rubbish,Italy have a GP,how many Italian riders are in the GP series,Croatia has a GP,how many Croatian riders are in the GP,Czech Republic has a GP,how many Czech riders are in the GP. None of the countries mentioned can influence the line up, however if you have a 70,000 seat stadium to fill and its your money, and you can do something to influence the crowd level what do you think will happen? You may also be influenced by the fact that one of your regular Customers may not be buying something with no representation in its home market????? You need to get into the real world. By the way this doesn't imply that I believe that the World Championship should not be contested by the best 16 riders that are available. Agreed and if we want a real world example outside of Speedway we only need to look at the richest most popular sport on the planet which is Football. World Cup 2018 automatic inclusion in the Finals granted to Qatar currently ranked 97th, in the world! Edited September 26, 2011 by manchesterpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 re- janowski , vaculik, Pavlic, Dennis etc.,... i agree that they probably are not ready but as late as a year ago people were making claims thatthe U21 champion should get a free spot into the GPs. hmmm from what I saw the majority of those posts were coming from Darcy fans..... who for the record is now ready imo................ it may also be as a result of Emil as well... but realistically, those two aside, although destined for good things the U21 world champion isnt usually quite ready for GP standard I think the solution for finding out if riders are ready is for there to be a 2nd wildcard on the night. Leave it to just one and IMG will only ever rarely and reluctantly give out one to a non local .... make it two and there is lots of room for guys to get their chance.................. personally I like the idea of 3 or 4 riders getting a WC for 3 or 4 consecutive GP's each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 There is something wrong that a rider can qualify through the GP challenge without beating a GP rider in the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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