Plymouth 2012

[builderbob]

to be fair nothing wrong with having barker and fisher. Cockle ok at reserve, glans bit of a risk, but will probably do well. Boxall could be the trump card if he produces what he is more than capable of. Holder and franchetti the weak links, need to be changed as soon as possible in my mind.

[english roundabout]

Don't get the pessimists amongst you devils fans. Plenty of potential at the lower end for me. Boxall will do well for you guys. Holder is due to deliver this season. The top two will be terrific to watch home and away. I appreciate its a top heavy look but I'm predicting top 5. And my first appearance to take in the sba.

[CardinalSin]

to be fair nothing wrong with having barker and fisher.

I disagree its a crazy decision. Ben Barker is an outstanding number 1 in the Premier league and a rider i'm sure every club would love to have in their side. A real coup for Plymouth to get him on board and an ideal opportunity to build a side to challenge at the business end of the table with wise signings down the order.

 

When signing a rider on such a high average, the task then is to be clever with your other 6 signings and try and find some hidden gems with potential to up their averages.

 

Firstly i don't believe Plymouth done that with some very strange looking signings, and secondly signing Fisher just made a complete balls up of the whole thing!!

 

Unfortunately i can also only see a season of struggling near the foot of the table, but at least the supporters will have the satisfaction i suppose of seeing the two best riders in the league in their colours, and arguably the most exciting too so still plenty to look forward to.

[torpointfanatic22]

Don't get the pessimists amongst you devils fans. Plenty of potential at the lower end for me. Boxall will do well for you guys. Holder is due to deliver this season. The top two will be terrific to watch home and away. I appreciate its a top heavy look but I'm predicting top 5. And my first appearance to take in the sba.

 

The problem is it's very hard to be an optimist where Mr Bowden is concerned, trust me we've had several years of it now.

Honestly though lets get serious and realistic here with the riders that we have signed...

 

Barker and Fisher come in on big averages but are good enough to maintain them in my opinion but to improve on their starting figures by more than 0.2 will be incredibly tough and in my opinion unlikely.

 

Now for the rest. I agree with you about Boxall in that he could do very well for us. He's ridden our place a few times over the years and always gone well and Boxall has the ability to be an 7.5 man in the PL. Sadly his mentality and attitude has ensured that he's got nowhere near that figure of late. If he commits himself fully and displays all the right things on and off the track he could be a steal, but I'm inclined to think his reputation precedes him and hope he proves me wrong.

 

Holder has never cut it at anything above PL reserve level, shoulder injury or not. He's a decent reserve yes and had he started at reserve I'd be happy but he isn't. If he learns the SBA track and gets his gating head on he should dial in OK at home but like most lower order riders his away form is likely to be his problem. Starting in the main body is likely to be too much for him in my opinion.

 

Cockle had a super end to last season and will gate pretty well on most occasions but like Holder he needs to be at reserve and although I expect him to drop down after the first set of green sheets early doors his confidence could be shot! That said I like James and hope when he drops to reserve he can do well.

 

Franchetti is just a silly signing if we're talking about ability. He tries hard but last year did nothing to make me think he is going to improve in any way. I like Gino and the fans in general love him but given we are nearly 3 points under the limit we should have looked at other alternatives to Gino allowing Cockle to start at reserve.

 

Glanz for me is our possible trump card. He's a decent rider and should improve on his starting average quite substantially but come the first set of green sheets he'll be in the main body which defeats the object really.

 

All in all we only look like having two improvers in that side at most and given the rest of the teams in the league I'd say we are certain to be in the bottom few, so that's why I'm pessimistic!

[Roger MARTIN]

I disagree its a crazy decision. Ben Barker is an outstanding number 1 in the Premier league and a rider i'm sure every club would love to have in their side. A real coup for Plymouth to get him on board and an ideal opportunity to build a side to challenge at the business end of the table with wise signings down the order. When signing a rider on such a high average, the task then is to be clever with your other 6 signings and try and find some hidden gems with potential to up their averages. Firstly i don't believe Plymouth done that with some very strange looking signings, and secondly signing Fisher just made a complete balls up of the whole thing!! Unfortunately i can also only see a season of struggling near the foot of the table, but at least the supporters will have the satisfaction i suppose of seeing the two best riders in the league in their colours, and arguably the most exciting too so still plenty to look forward to.

 

Great post 100% behind you on this, all the promotors at the end of any season will sit down and work out the rider's they won't for next year, but the Plymouth promotor went on holiday, to say there was any planing put into the Plymouth team is an understatement, yes it will be great to watch Ben and Ryan rider for us but that will overshadowed if the team lose the meeting, after all isn't that the point to win meeting's, there is no way in this world this team will last more than a month or so, when teams look at the Plymouth team the team manager will say to them we don't have to beat Ryan or Ben, we just have to beat the other five, and looking at some of the team's that have been put together that won't be hard, i hope i'm wrong but i can't see it.

[Halifaxtiger]

The problem is it's very hard to be an optimist where Mr Bowden is concerned, trust me we've had several years of it now.

Honestly though lets get serious and realistic here with the riders that we have signed...

 

Barker and Fisher come in on big averages but are good enough to maintain them in my opinion but to improve on their starting figures by more than 0.2 will be incredibly tough and in my opinion unlikely.

 

Now for the rest. I agree with you about Boxall in that he could do very well for us. He's ridden our place a few times over the years and always gone well and Boxall has the ability to be an 7.5 man in the PL. Sadly his mentality and attitude has ensured that he's got nowhere near that figure of late. If he commits himself fully and displays all the right things on and off the track he could be a steal, but I'm inclined to think his reputation precedes him and hope he proves me wrong.

 

Holder has never cut it at anything above PL reserve level, shoulder injury or not. He's a decent reserve yes and had he started at reserve I'd be happy but he isn't. If he learns the SBA track and gets his gating head on he should dial in OK at home but like most lower order riders his away form is likely to be his problem. Starting in the main body is likely to be too much for him in my opinion.

 

Cockle had a super end to last season and will gate pretty well on most occasions but like Holder he needs to be at reserve and although I expect him to drop down after the first set of green sheets early doors his confidence could be shot! That said I like James and hope when he drops to reserve he can do well.

 

Franchetti is just a silly signing if we're talking about ability. He tries hard but last year did nothing to make me think he is going to improve in any way. I like Gino and the fans in general love him but given we are nearly 3 points under the limit we should have looked at other alternatives to Gino allowing Cockle to start at reserve.

 

Glanz for me is our possible trump card. He's a decent rider and should improve on his starting average quite substantially but come the first set of green sheets he'll be in the main body which defeats the object really.

 

All in all we only look like having two improvers in that side at most and given the rest of the teams in the league I'd say we are certain to be in the bottom few, so that's why I'm pessimistic!

 

Very honest and fair and, in my view, probably all too accurate.

 

I still think the Devils will be tough to beat at home and, thanks to the presence of Barker & Fisher, competitive (but winning very few if any) away.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head with that three point gap. A 5.5 rider slotting in could have made an enormous difference.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[RedcarRacer]

As has been said I think if Fisher and Barker stay fit they will be almost untouchable at home this mean Plymouth should be very, vey hard to beat at home and to be honest that is the basis for most clubs at the start of the season.

 

And to be honest given Fisher and Barker are brilliant on most tracks they could easily catch someone on an off night. No way will they be bottom of the league IMO, but only if Barker and Fisher stay fit.

 

And I know Bowden takes a lot of stick, but Barker and Fisher must be costing him a fortune!

[wjm]

Barker and Fisher will give Plymouth a minimum of about 7 drawn heats and 2 heat advantages a meeting, that’s a hell of a start from only 2 riders.

[stratton]

I really rate Boxall and if he is determined can average above 7.50 up to steve really.Holder, and Glanz can improve a top 5 finish will be tough not impossible though.

[spin king]

Barker and Fisher will give Plymouth a minimum of about 7 drawn heats and 2 heat advantages a meeting, that’s a hell of a start from only 2 riders.

 

Cannot speak for Ryan Fisher, but Ben Barker was decidedly average at Sheffield last season his record was;

 

Rides; 10

 

1st; 2

 

2nd; 4

 

3rd; 3

 

4th; 1

 

heat advantages for; 1

 

heat advantages against; 6

 

Drawn heats; 3

 

I think there is massive pressure on both Barker and Fisher to perform, one has an off night they have problems.

 

I really rate Boxall and if he is determined can average above 7.50 up to steve really.Holder, and Glanz can improve a top 5 finish will be tough not impossible though.

I think problem with Boxall it about desire more than talent.

[tigerblues]

I really rate Boxall and if he is determined can average above 7.50 up to steve really.Holder, and Glanz can improve a top 5 finish will be tough not impossible though.

I agree, I really rate him aswell, so frustrating though as talent is the thing he isn't short of.

[The White Knight]

I agree, I really rate him aswell, so frustrating though as talent is the thing he isn't short of.

 

As the GREAT Roy Castle used to say/sing........................................................

 

............................dedication is what you need (if you want to be the BEST)

[stratton]

I agree, I really rate him aswell, so frustrating though as talent is the thing he isn't short of.

I dont know the lad see him a bit at conference level was impressed.When he rode a bit a few meetings at EL looked on the pace.What has been his problem i have no idea the ability is there hope Steve does for himself more than anyone.

[Roger MARTIN]

I dont know the lad see him a bit at conference level was impressed.When he rode a bit a few meetings at EL looked on the pace.What has been his problem i have no idea the ability is there hope Steve does for himself more than anyone.

 

When he came down to the SBA with Rye House last year he looked good, and you have to say he has the ability, but you can say that about a lot of sportsmen, and they never do make the grade, not just speedway riders, i have heard last year he only had one bike, and that belong to Len Silver, and so far this year he hasn't got a van, so that's a good start, so that makes two riders that have signed for Plymouth that need a van, i hope it's sorted by the 17th press and practice day.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Devildodger

[wjm]

Cannot speak for Ryan Fisher, but Ben Barker was decidedly average at Sheffield last season his record was;

 

Rides; 10

 

1st; 2

 

2nd; 4

 

3rd; 3

 

4th; 1

 

heat advantages for; 1

 

heat advantages against; 6

 

Drawn heats; 3

 

I think there is massive pressure on both Barker and Fisher to perform, one has an off night they have problems.

 

I have seen Barker perform superbly around Owlerton, you are referencing the exception rather than the norm when you speak of Barker having an off night at PL level.

 

 

More so at Sheffield when last year he had to face Parker, Auty and Ashowrth.

[Halifaxtiger]

I have seen Barker perform superbly around Owlerton, you are referencing the exception rather than the norm when you speak of Barker having an off night at PL level.

 

 

More so at Sheffield when last year he had to face Parker, Auty and Ashowrth.

 

When I saw Barker at Owlerton he wasn't that impressive and no-one will know better (or give a more honest opinion) than Spinny.

 

Having said that, I think that it is at home that he is referred to as being nigh on unbeatable and an 11pt average last season says that's true.Fisher can do the same, and what's just as important is that they are both terrific riders to watch.

 

MikeyT was dead right when he said the signing of Franchetti is a disappointing one. A 5.5 or 6pt rider would make a significant difference.

 

 

I think there is massive pressure on both Barker and Fisher to perform, one has an off night they have problems.

 

 

Pint of bitter says Plymouth finish above Sheffield

[wjm]

When I saw Barker at Owlerton he wasn't that impressive and no-one will know better (or give a more honest opinion) than Spinny.

 

Having said that, I think that it is at home that he is referred to as being nigh on unbeatable and an 11pt average last season says that's true.Fisher can do the same, and what's just as important is that they are both terrific riders to watch.

.

 

I saw him in a PLRC with Stoke a couple of years back and he was pretty sensational, as I say Barker having poor meetings in the PL isn’t a regular occurrence, Plymouth will cause damage at most tracks with Fisher and Barker, by far and away the strongest top two assembled by a PL side in recent years IMO, only Parker and Bird come close, it didn’t take much from the rest of the Glasgow team that season to carry them to a decent year, Boxall and one of Franchetti/Glanz could easily do the Niemenin/Kseizak job done that season.

 

I don’t mind Gino as a rider I still think he has a bit more to give, but he needs looking after – don’t know if Bowden is the man to do that, but you never know because Peter Waite seemed to get on ok with Gino and Bowden and Waite seem pretty similar.

[spin king]

I have seen Barker perform superbly around Owlerton, you are referencing the exception rather than the norm when you speak of Barker having an off night at PL level.

 

 

More so at Sheffield when last year he had to face Parker, Auty and Ashowrth.

Actually that was two off nights, and not only the riders mentioned beat him but also from the present Sheffield squad Skidmore (twice) and Sanchez.

 

Like I say at Sheffield he looked decidedly average for the top man in the Premier League and an Elite League heatleader, I would have expected better.

[wjm]

Actually that was two off nights, and not only the riders mentioned beat him but also from the present Sheffield squad Skidmore (twice) and Sanchez.

 

Like I say at Sheffield he looked decidedly average for the top man in the Premier League and an Elite League heatleader, I would have expected better.

 

I wouldn’t imagine he will be that fussed to be honest, or Plymouth fans given the form he shows around the rest of the country…

[spin king]

I wouldn’t imagine he will be that fussed to be honest, or Plymouth fans given the form he shows around the rest of the country…

I suppose that is about as near as I get to you admitting that I was right.

 

When I saw Barker at Owlerton he wasn't that impressive and no-one will know better (or give a more honest opinion) than Spinny.

 

Having said that, I think that it is at home that he is referred to as being nigh on unbeatable and an 11pt average last season says that's true.Fisher can do the same, and what's just as important is that they are both terrific riders to watch.

 

MikeyT was dead right when he said the signing of Franchetti is a disappointing one. A 5.5 or 6pt rider would make a significant difference.

 

 

 

Pint of bitter says Plymouth finish above Sheffield

Not really a gambling man as Squall and Junior will tell you, but a price of pint ain't much go on then.

Edited March 5, 2012 by spin king