english roundabout Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think plymouth fans are being rather cautious about their team and their chances this year. I reckon they are shaping up pretty well. Has lanham signed? If barker and fisher are the spearhead,then happy days, great entertainment. I will make the trip from swindon to watch on the odd occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think plymouth fans are being rather cautious about their team and their chances this year. I reckon they are shaping up pretty well. Has lanham signed? If barker and fisher are the spearhead,then happy days, The best spearhead in the league by a country mile. They can't win meetings by themselves though. Bottom for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english roundabout Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Just can't see the management paying out so much money for barker and fisher without any success. Doesn't make business sense at all. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Just can't see the management paying out so much money for barker and fisher without any success. Doesn't make business sense at all. But what is considered success for Plymouth? are we talking trophies? If we are then they certainly will be without success as they'll win nothing with that side. I can't see that septet collectively scoring enough points to win meetings even at home. The big hitting duo will score enough between them to see that they won't get hammered too often, but more often than not i can see them just coming up short of the 46 points needed to win meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english roundabout Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Has lanham signed for them? If not I agree a season of struggle away from home. However a good chance of top 5 if he has. Can't see them beaten at home. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Has lanham signed for them? If not I agree a season of struggle away from home. However a good chance of top 5 if he has. Can't see them beaten at home. We'll agree to disagree. Even with Lanham, i can see them losing a handful at home. Not by much, but i think you'll see a fair few 44-46 type scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torpointfanatic22 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Has lanham signed for them? If not I agree a season of struggle away from home. However a good chance of top 5 if he has. Can't see them beaten at home. Â Lanham hasn't and isn't signing. It's Barker, Fisher, Boxall, Holder, Cockle, Franchetti and Glanz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 We'll agree to disagree. Even with Lanham, i can see them losing a handful at home. Not by much, but i think you'll see a fair few 44-46 type scores. Â I think they will be a real handful at home, certainly as the new riders settle in. To illustrate the point, Plymouth beat Sheffield at home last season without Barker and Fisher. Â I think its fair to suggest that those two will be nigh on unbeatable at SBA, so that's nine heat wins and two 5-1's in most meetings and that's going to take a fair bit of turning round. Cockle banged some big scores in at home at the tail end of last season (albeit at reserve) and Franchetti did a few as well. Glanz will be a very decent reserve there and Boxall will be a 6-7 point man. Â I think Plymouth will take some real beating at SBA and the presence of Fisher and Barker means they will be reasonably competitive away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) I think they will be a real handful at home, certainly as the new riders settle in. To illustrate the point, Plymouth beat Sheffield at home last season without Barker and Fisher.  I think its fair to suggest that those two will be nigh on unbeatable at SBA, so that's nine heat wins and two 5-1's in most meetings and that's going to take a fair bit of turning round. Cockle banged some big scores in at home at the tail end of last season (albeit at reserve) and Franchetti did a few as well. Glanz will be a very decent reserve there and Boxall will be a 6-7 point man.  I think Plymouth will take some real beating at SBA and the presence of Fisher and Barker means they will be reasonably competitive away. I think they will be a real handful at home, certainly as the new riders settle in. To illustrate the point, Plymouth beat Sheffield at home last season without Barker and Fisher.  I think its fair to suggest that those two will be nigh on unbeatable at SBA, so that's nine heat wins and two 5-1's in most meetings and that's going to take a fair bit of turning round. Cockle banged some big scores in at home at the tail end of last season (albeit at reserve) and Franchetti did a few as well. Glanz will be a very decent reserve there and Boxall will be a 6-7 point man.  I think Plymouth will take some real beating at SBA and the presence of Fisher and Barker means they will be reasonably competitive away. Not for me Halifax i just can't see it. The pressure on Barker and Fisher will be huge and you say that they will be pretty unbeatable at SBA, well i'm afraid they're going to have to be. There will be meetings though even at home when things don't go quite right for one or both of them, and that will result in a home defeat as the back up just isn't there. Obviously time will tell but i think the bookies have Plymouth spot on. Edited March 3, 2012 by ZODIAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Its been proven time and time again that top heavy teams just do not work. This Plymouth side is as top heavy as you're ever going to get. Â Reminds me a little of Poole in 2009 who went top heavy. Steve Shovlar and his fellow Poole supporters tried to convince everyone that Holder and Pedersen would score 25+ between them every meeting. They finished joint bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble53 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Boxall will be a 6-7 point man. Â Well, for two meetings at least !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Its been proven time and time again that top heavy teams just do not work. This Plymouth side is as top heavy as you're ever going to get. Â Reminds me a little of Poole in 2009 who went top heavy. Steve Shovlar and his fellow Poole supporters tried to convince everyone that Holder and Pedersen would score 25+ between them every meeting. They finished joint bottom. TBF, 2009 Holder and Pedersen in the EL is not in the same class as 2012 Fisher and Barker in the PL. You're comparing an 8.5 and a 6.5 rider with a 9.5 and a 10 point rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) TBF, 2009 Holder and Pedersen in the EL is not in the same class as 2012 Fisher and Barker in the PL. You're comparing an 8.5 and a 6.5 rider with a 9.5 and a 10 point rider. Every man and his dog were saying Poole were too top heavy with such a low points limit in 2009. Having one of Barker or Fisher is bad enough on their high averages, having both is just bloody stupid! Does the promoter there have any real idea of how to put a side together? Edited March 4, 2012 by Steve Irving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) TBF, 2009 Holder and Pedersen in the EL is not in the same class as 2012 Fisher and Barker in the PL. You're comparing an 8.5 and a 6.5 rider with a 9.5 and a 10 point rider. 6.5 rider? who are you talking about? Neither Holder nor Pedersen were a 6.5 rider at the start of 2009. Edit; Holder's 2008 greensheet was 8.80 and Pedersen's 9.13 so i'm guessing they started 2009 with those averages. Also the Poole 2009 team was built to a 39.90 team building average compared to Plymouth's 42.50 so i think its a fair comparison.  The crux of the point though is that teams built top heavy are not often successful. I agree with the other poster its complete madness signing both Fisher and Barker. Edited March 4, 2012 by ZODIAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english roundabout Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 That was probably holders average at the beginning of the 2009 season zodiak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAK Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 That was probably holders average at the beginning of the 2009 season zodiak. Holder's 2009 starting average was 8.80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Â Â Well, for two meetings at least !! Â Â Â He is a gamble but on a small tight track like Plymouth he could be a real asset. Â Â The crux of the point though is that teams built top heavy are not often successful. Â I think that's dead right - I certainly can't see them getting in the play offs. Â I do, however, believe they will be very difficult to beat as SBA where the long tail is less of an issue. Barker averaged over 11 there last season and Fisher should do about the same. That's 26 or 27 points per match from those two alone, leaving just 20 from the remaining 5 and Glanz, Cockle and Franchetti are all easily capable of scoring that never mind Boxall and Holder. Â I think the problem with Plymouth is that its a question of what might have been; the location means that getting riders there is always going to be a problem but you can't help but believe that the team should be better than it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Lanham hasn't and isn't signing. It's Barker, Fisher, Boxall, Holder, Cockle, Franchetti and Glanz  Mike your right Lanham isn't signing, and i can't see that present team lasting very long, even with Lanham it would have been the same, it's a shame because it had the making's of a decent side with two of the top rider's in it, very strong at the top, but very weak in the middle order. Edited March 4, 2012 by Devildodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) 6.5 rider? who are you talking about? Neither Holder nor Pedersen were a 6.5 rider at the start of 2009.  Edit; Holder's 2008 greensheet was 8.80 and Pedersen's 9.13 so i'm guessing they started 2009 with those averages. Also the Poole 2009 team was built to a 39.90 team building average compared to Plymouth's 42.50 so i think its a fair comparison.  The crux of the point though is that teams built top heavy are not often successful. I agree with the other poster its complete madness signing both Fisher and Barker. No but by the end of the year Pedersen was 6.58. Neither Fisher or Barker will get that this year. Pooles issue in 2009 was not being top heavy but Bjarne Pedersen losing 2.5 points from his average.  Poole did alright the years they had Rickardsson and Adams. Edited March 4, 2012 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger MARTIN Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Every man and his dog were saying Poole were too top heavy with such a low points limit in 2009. Having one of Barker or Fisher is bad enough on their high averages, having both is just bloody stupid! Does the promoter there have any real idea of how to put a side together? Â The honest answer to that Steve is no, you would think being an ex speedway rider he would have a good idea the thinking behind putting a speedway team together, Barker and Fisher are very good rider's but will find it very hard riding has a team with rider's on a third of there average, yes they both will win many races but team's will just let them go and fill in behind them, until Ricky Wells came last year thats all teams did, they just let him do his thing and filled the minor places and got a 3-3, it wasn't until Mike Bowden called on riders like Sanchez and Hawkins and teams were weaker the second time they came down, Plymouth started to win meetings at home, before that teams came to the SBA and won easily. Edited March 5, 2012 by Devildodger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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