How Many Teams In Nl In 2012

[Baldy]

unfortunatly some riders would rather buy the latest phone than a primary chain or cables for their bikes ,it would only be around 10% of NL riders who have a clue what goes on inside their engines ,stripping and engine serviceing and rebuilding it and understanding how it all works is not something you need a degree in ,it is quite straight forward , one of my work customers who used to make engines for motorcross and trials in the 70s laughs at speedway engines because they are basically the same engine that were used in the 60s ,nothing has really changed , its just got lighter ,but its still the same parts ,there is nothing special in there, it is a overhead cam combustion engine ,thats all, set your self up with a press and the tools ,then buy an old engine off ebay or wherever and spend the winter learning about striping it down and rebuilding it, valve timing etc , you will save a fortune in engine repairs

This is the most interesting thread that I've read in ages. I know nothing about engines etc but by reducing your outgoings with the work put in that you say then that would allow more riders to give it ago and increase the pool of riders available with a possible increase in tracks competing. I've watched you over the years and it is interesting to hear your views. Only slightly tongue in cheek but you should start a master class on bike prep over the winter, would pay dividends for the lads; although the new iphone is out so that's put paid to that.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

speedway in general is not cheap and parts are not cheap but it could and should be a lot cheaper if you work at it and understand the bikes you ride , another bit of advice is listen to the older riders like jeremy doncaster ,bruce cribb,alan grahame ,riders like that ,they understand their engines , i learnt a hell of a lot from listening to paul pickering and martin dixon and jan staechmann about bike set ups ,and when i was having my engines done by bloomfeldt and bullet and diesel dave i was learning listening askin questions ,untill i thought i knew enough to have a go myself ,imagine my pride and excitment when i won my 1st race on an engine i had done

[P T Preece]

Id really miss Buxton if it closed, I havent been able to get up there as much as i did in 2010, but plan more meeting there in 2012.

[teddy2706]

speedway in general is not cheap and parts are not cheap but it could and should be a lot cheaper if you work at it and understand the bikes you ride , another bit of advice is listen to the older riders like jeremy doncaster ,bruce cribb,alan grahame ,riders like that ,they understand their engines , i learnt a hell of a lot from listening to paul pickering and martin dixon and jan staechmann about bike set ups ,and when i was having my engines done by bloomfeldt and bullet and diesel dave i was learning listening askin questions ,untill i thought i knew enough to have a go myself ,imagine my pride and excitment when i won my 1st race on an engine i had done

 

This is fascinating stuff indeed.

Plainly the engines in use are simple, yet riders of my aquaintance are sending them in routinely for "servicing".

It had occured to me that once the engine was in a particular state of tune and assuming that no damage or cam and follower wear was apparent, I couldn't understand why with fairly basic workshop facilities, they appeared unable to rebuild their own engines.

Surely we are only talking piston and rings,cam chain, mains and big ends, valves springs and freshen up the seats and valves, then careful valve and ignition timing?

Alan Belham told me ages ago there was no reason why a standard engine could not win races at NL level, but if you listen to Sam Ermolenko you need this length rod, these flywheels, that piston etc.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

This is fascinating stuff indeed.

Plainly the engines in use are simple, yet riders of my aquaintance are sending them in routinely for "servicing".

It had occured to me that once the engine was in a particular state of tune and assuming that no damage or cam and follower wear was apparent, I couldn't understand why with fairly basic workshop facilities, they appeared unable to rebuild their own engines.

Surely we are only talking piston and rings,cam chain, mains and big ends, valves springs and freshen up the seats and valves, then careful valve and ignition timing?

Alan Belham told me ages ago there was no reason why a standard engine could not win races at NL level, but if you listen to Sam Ermolenko you need this length rod, these flywheels, that piston etc.

well sam is proberly right when you get into premier and above but at national league a bog standard engine is more than good enough ,i have no idea what ashley birkes ,simon lambert ,jon armstrong ,john oliver ,jay herne have special in their engines or who tunes them or how much they pay for the tuning but i have beat them all in the last 2 months on a bog standard 6 year old engine and a clutch that noah sold me off the ark

[high edge]

And you beat em fair and square Deano when i rode in the sixtys seventys we mostly did our own engines.I used to fitt new valves rings and sprngs,in eight years of running a speedway bike i only paid someone once for a rebore and then i fitted a new piston.In them days we also did most repairs on our vans ect,i think today people are scared to have a go its not rocket sience just a bitt of nohow and you could save a fortune .Imust admitt the cost of spares for speedway bikes are criminal the stupid dirt deflecters what dirt are they deflecting most tracks dont have any dirt,and the cost of clutch plates are a ripp off,and now they are charging 300 pound for a silencer,god you can get a complete exhaust system for most cars cheaper than that,as far as cost in speedway the riders are being ripped off for everything they have to buy.The dirt deflectors cause alot of riders to fall when they catch there front wheels on the rider infronts one, get ridd of them they are not needed.As for other stuff look round you can find cheaper replacements for spares outside speedway have a look.

Edited October 15, 2011 by rider slider

[squall]

And you beat em fair and square Deano when i rode in the sixtys seventys we mostly did our own engines.I used to fitt new valves rings and sprngs,in eight years of running a speedway bike i only paid someone once for a rebore and then i fitted a new piston.In them days we also did most repairs on our vans ect,i think today people are scared to have a go its not rocket sience just a bitt of nohow and you could save a fortune .Imust admitt the cost of spares for speedway bikes are criminal the stupid dirt deflecters what dirt are they deflecting most tracks dont have any dirt,and the cost of clutch plates are a ripp off,and now they are charging 300 pound for a silencer,god you can get a complete exhaust system for most cars cheaper than that,as far as cost in speedway the riders are being ripped off for everything they have to buy.The dirt deflectors cause alot of riders to fall when they catch there front wheels on the rider infronts one, get ridd of them they are not needed.As for other stuff look round you can find cheaper replacements for spares outside speedway have a look.

 

Breathe, man, breathe!

[high edge]

The cost of things just piss me off sqaull,but that wont bother you you will never put leg your over a speedway bike like your dad did.Or over a woman so go away. :rofl:The people who run speedway dont put there brain into gear before they make a rule so untill they hand over the job of making new rules to people who dont stand to gain from the rules they make we are all doombed.The stupid 8 point rule the forign ups sorrry Elite league made last year must be scrapped going off the averages in speedway star 17 riders are over 8 points.There are only 10 teams does that mean 7riders will be out of a job next year,we will see.What a cockup and this year has not finnished yet,another winter of disscontent no dout.

Edited October 15, 2011 by rider slider

[greyhoundp]

tyres are not really an issue in the NL ,cause you dont have to use a new one and i have only used 1 new one all year and that was sponsored by someone , motor sport is always going to be expensive to a certain degree but just a bit of engine knowledge goes a very long way in speedway , my advice to any NL rider is learn about the bike you ride ,dont just buy something cause englebert smith,s got one and he is a good rider, A 10 year old GM/JAWA crank case is just that ,its a crankcase there is no power or performance in it at all,it goes exactly the same speed as a brand new one ,learn that the power is all above it ,same as a old wheel ,put new bearings in and it spins at the same speed as a new one, dirt deflectors should be scrapped cause they do a little less that sod all ,there,s a £200 saving straight away , maybe only 1 type of carb can be used ,such as a bz , maybe you can only use NEB/JAWA clutch plates in national league £10 each as opposed to harushi plates £40 each ,im sure paul bennett wont mind me saying this but if you put mine and his clutch plates together you wouldnt make a good set between them and we both got a maximum in buxtons last meeting ,

 

Surely its not rocket science for promoters to get together in the NL prior to the AGM, Postphone bringing in the new Silencers, Scrap using Dirt Deflectors, only use the cheaper Carbs, only use the cheaper Clutch plates, Tyres dont seem to be a major issue, also this fashionable thing about sending engines away is very costly. I can see where a few thousand is wasted year on year, but i must Stress we are talking NL League only, and yes i can hear people saying, but what about if i am offered rides in the PL, my equipment isnt competitive, thats why i said have a pree AGM meeting to find ways round problems these ideas may create.

 

The idea is "Survival" to reduce riders costs, therefore to reduce promoters costs, who then maybe then will be able to not only survive but possibly pass on a small saving in some way to the spectators, who are also having to take ever increasing household costs,and Travel costs, as we all know, etc,etc.

[vog]

The cost of things just piss me off sqaull,but that wont bother you you will never put leg your over a speedway bike like your dad did.Or over a woman so go away. :rofl:The people who run speedway dont put there brain into gear before they make a rule so untill they hand over the job of making new rules to people who dont stand to gain from the rules they make we are all doombed.The stupid 8 point rule the forign ups sorrry Elite league made last year must be scrapped going off the averages in speedway star 17 riders are over 8 points.There are only 10 teams does that mean 7riders will be out of a job next year,we will see.What a cockup and this year has not finnished yet,another winter of disscontent no dout.

 

I know this isn't really the forum, but there are only 11 riders with a team place with averages over 8 at the greensheets at the beginning of October. SS averages include bonus points.

[TMW]

Surely its not rocket science for promoters to get together in the NL prior to the AGM, Postphone bringing in the new Silencers, Scrap using Dirt Deflectors, only use the cheaper Carbs, only use the cheaper Clutch plates, Tyres dont seem to be a major issue, also this fashionable thing about sending engines away is very costly. I can see where a few thousand is wasted year on year, but i must Stress we are talking NL League only, and yes i can hear people saying, but what about if i am offered rides in the PL, my equipment isnt competitive, thats why i said have a pree AGM meeting to find ways round problems these ideas may create.

 

The idea is "Survival" to reduce riders costs, therefore to reduce promoters costs, who then maybe then will be able to not only survive but possibly pass on a small saving in some way to the spectators, who are also having to take ever increasing household costs,and Travel costs, as we all know, etc,etc.

 

It's alright saying just NL but if any of them get a guest booking in the PL as that is their main aim......They have to be ready to step up to the plate at a moments notice are PL suporters going to take into acccount that the rider is on NL gear

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

It's alright saying just NL but if any of them get a guest booking in the PL as that is their main aim......They have to be ready to step up to the plate at a moments notice are PL suporters going to take into acccount that the rider is on NL gear

what people think is, the engine tuners are rocket scientists and the engines are full of magic parts that only they can fit ,its just not true most tuners are ex riders (not really known for the brains ) ,but they understand how an engine works ,what different cams do ,what different flywheels do ,compression etc etc, there is nothing magic in a speedway engine it is proberly the most basic combustion race engine in the world today ,the main point im making is you would save a fortune by doing your own engines and you would learn how to make them faster , there is no reason why a rider couldnt do an engine fast enough for elite league ,i know 1 ex rider who riding didnt really get above NL standard but is doing engines for premier riders and a couple of elite, its the end of season now ,a rider could go and buy a cheap engine strip it, service it ,play about with it ,learn about it and by march be competant enough to be riding his own serviced engines, the lesson is there but i doubt many riders would take it

[TMW]

what people think is, the engine tuners are rocket scientists and the engines are full of magic parts that only they can fit ,its just not true most tuners are ex riders (not really known for the brains ) ,but they understand how an engine works ,what different cams do ,what different flywheels do ,compression etc etc, there is nothing magic in a speedway engine it is proberly the most basic combustion race engine in the world today ,the main point im making is you would save a fortune by doing your own engines and you would learn how to make them faster , there is no reason why a rider couldnt do an engine fast enough for elite league ,i know 1 ex rider who riding didnt really get above NL standard but is doing engines for premier riders and a couple of elite, its the end of season now ,a rider could go and buy a cheap engine strip it, service it ,play about with it ,learn about it and by march be competant enough to be riding his own serviced engines, the lesson is there but i doubt many riders would take it

 

One thing you don't mention there is 'time'. Speedway rider working full time (and extra)mechanic working full time (and extra) to be able to afford the basics to build a bike from bits off e-bay. That would be all well and good for riders who don't work work part time or work only in the close season.

 

To be fair most NL riders are using new silencers now anyway they have to have them in PL and if they want to guest they have to be, as I said ready to go. The ones that aren't are Amateur riders, NL guests and maybe junior championship

Edited October 18, 2011 by TMW

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

One thing you don't mention there is 'time'. Speedway rider working full time (and extra)mechanic working full time (and extra) to be able to afford the basics to build a bike from bits off e-bay. That would be all well and good for riders who don't work work part time or work only in the close season.

 

To be fair most NL riders are using new silencers now anyway they have to have them in PL and if they want to guest they have to be, as I said ready to go. The ones that aren't are Amateur riders, NL guests and maybe junior championship

well i work 60 hours plus a week and some weekends and i stll find the time ,it comes down to dedication at the end of the day ,do you want to be a speedway rider ?, no one said it was easy ,and the national league dosent owe you a living ,i understand that statement goes against the grain but speedway is the only motorcycle sport that pays you to compete , and i feel very lucky that it pays me to do something i love

[TMW]

well i work 60 hours plus a week and some weekends and i stll find the time ,it comes down to dedication at the end of the day ,do you want to be a speedway rider ?, no one said it was easy ,and the national league dosent owe you a living ,i understand that statement goes against the grain but speedway is the only motorcycle sport that pays you to compete , and i feel very lucky that it pays me to do something i love

 

Whatever

[greyhoundp]

Whatever

 

Why did you even bother replying ?.

 

TMW, do you live in a different World ? one where something is given to you on a Plate, cus if that World exists tell me about it, b,cuz i have never come across it. In all walks of life surely its mostly about dedication and sacrifices to get where we want to be, unless we have a rich sugar Daddy i applaud Deanno for coming on here and talking a great deal of sense, from a riders point of view, and not just a keyboard cop.

He talks/writes a great deal of common sense, okay agreed not all straight forward with regards occasional rides in the Pl, but from the NL perspective it is enlightening.

 

Other careers pay you to learn, but they mostly pay at an existance level, same for the NL, its not about buying Joe Knickersons Gp Bike, having the latest bike Covers, Gold Chromed Wheel Rims, or the sexiest i Phone , its a learning process and Mechanical Knowledge surely needs to be part of it.

[PhilK]

well i work 60 hours plus a week and some weekends and i stll find the time ,it comes down to dedication at the end of the day ,do you want to be a speedway rider ?, no one said it was easy ,and the national league dosent owe you a living ,i understand that statement goes against the grain but speedway is the only motorcycle sport that pays you to compete , and i feel very lucky that it pays me to do something i love

 

Excellent response Dean, but you are sadly wasting your breath with this one

[Edwardian]

well sam is proberly right when you get into premier and above but at national league a bog standard engine is more than good enough ,i have no idea what ashley birkes ,simon lambert ,jon armstrong ,john oliver ,jay herne have special in their engines or who tunes them or how much they pay for the tuning but i have beat them all in the last 2 months on a bog standard 6 year old engine and a clutch that noah sold me off the ark

I think you are going a bit to far here, when you say the likes of Simon lambert and Ash birks they double up in PL they need to have there bikes tuned and tip top.. I think you are rather putting other riders down here, riders are looking for sponsorship and help and your making it sound so inexpensive and matter of fact that these other riders have not got a clue.. How do you think they even got a PL ride in the first place? Ash Birks has not been doing speedway for 3-4 years like some he has had one year NL and gone straight to PL. That's progress

If riders want to progress a bog standard like you say will not do other wise your dropped.

And if you work 6 days a week and ride speedway arnt you the lucky one to fit it all in.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I think you are going a bit to far here, when you say the likes of Simon lambert and Ash birks they double up in PL they need to have there bikes tuned and tip top.. I think you are rather putting other riders down here, riders are looking for sponsorship and help and your making it sound so inexpensive and matter of fact that these other riders have not got a clue.. How do you think they even got a PL ride in the first place? Ash Birks has not been doing speedway for 3-4 years like some he has had one year NL and gone straight to PL. That's progress

If riders want to progress a bog standard like you say will not do other wise your dropped.

And if you work 6 days a week and ride speedway arnt you the lucky one to fit it all in.

i am not putting any rider down ,ash ,simon or anybody ,i just used them as an example as to prove a bog standard engine is good enough for NL racing ,they have got rides in PL through talent and im not disputing that , its not inexpensive at all ,it just could and should be cheaper than it is if you could do your own engines . im not pretending to have the answers to speedways problems, but at NL level im just trying to give some advice to some of these younger riders who are struggleing to make ends meet in speedway , if they choose not to take it then so be it

[Edwardian]

i am not putting any rider down ,ash ,simon or anybody ,i just used them as an example as to prove a bog standard engine is good enough for NL racing ,they have got rides in PL through talent and im not disputing that , its not inexpensive at all ,it just could and should be cheaper than it is if you could do your own engines . im not pretending to have the answers to speedways problems, but at NL level im just trying to give some advice to some of these younger riders who are struggleing to make ends meet in speedway , if they choose not to take it then so be it

Your word NL dosnt owe you a living, and your trying to give riders who are struggling to make ends meet some advise..

It dosnt matter what league these lads ride they are ALL doing it for a living other wise why would risk there necks and as a rider you will know that Dean.