How Many Teams In Nl In 2012

[orderly]

Seeing Shadders thread about the Rye House Raiders returning next season following the failed experiment with Hackney, got me thinking about what teams would run in 2012, and will there be any newcomers?

 

From this years 10 I would guess

 

Mildenhall, Rye House, Stoke, Scunthorpe, Buxton and Dudley are certainties to run

 

Kings Lynn, Belle Vue and Isle of Wight are hopefuls / maybe's

 

And Newport look doubtful

 

As for new sides the rumour about Bodmin continues and will Sittingbourne appear in 2012

 

Does anyone have any views or news on possible runners?!

 

 

may be Mr Ford should run a national league team to make up for not having english riders in his team

[scribbler]

may be Mr Ford should run a national league team to make up for not having english riders in his team

 

He's already done that - the 'one season wonders' Bournemouth Bucaneers. He didn't get enough money - not enough punters through the gate - so pulled out of the NL.

[scribbler]

 

The NL will lose a team and management willing to develop British riders. As I stated earlier...it'll be a sad day for British Speedway if/when the Saints stop being an NL team.

 

Just notices the GB U23 Team... 6 of the 7 named riders began their Speedway League career in the NL or CL with Scunthorpe...

[Halifaxtiger]

Can't agree with you...

 

Scunthorpe invariably used a minimum of experienced riders. Wayne Carter was always captain - until he had to retire - due to a Speedway injury. The season where the CL Scorpions won everything was the season when the team contained 16 year olds Josh and Tai and an even younger Joe Haines with - I think - Byron Bekker, Benji Compton, Scott Richardson and Ritchie... hardly experienced riders - just young and with potential.

 

The loss of Scunthorpe will be the loss of British riders in the PL and EL. A sad day for British Speedway if Rob Godfrey does stop having a team in the NL...

 

James Cockle, Paul Cooper, Ricky Scarborough, Stuart Parnaby, Jonathan Bethell........

 

All experienced riders (or at least not youngsters) and they aren't alone, believe me.

 

The point is Rob Godfrey was never above chucking the odd experienced older rider when it suited the needs of him and his team and that's precisely what he is objecting to now. The only consolation is he is not as strident as he once was.

 

I would agree that it will be a sad day for not just NL speedway but British speedway as a whole if Scunny give up on third tier racing. Having said that, its a perfectly understandable decision in the circumstances.

 

Bit unfair that HT,Wayne Carter and Buzz came in to do a certain job within the team,a bit you could say like Lee Smethills this year,add Sarjeant,Morris,Howarth,Worralls,Briks,Irving,Wrathall,Nilsson,Tully,Auty,Haines and Woffy plus many others,it hardly points towards win at all cost

 

This years team are a classic example of NL speedway at its best

 

I would agree on this seasons team.

 

Over the period 2006/7, if one of the likes of Auty, Tully, Haines or Woffinden were unavailable, Pl riders (such as Cockle & Cooper) were brought in to replace them. That's what I mean by win at all costs.

 

As Kev accurately says, why have Smethills when you can have Nielsen ?

 

One can only imagine the howls of indignation that there would have been from Scunny if a view that condemned bringing in older riders to support the team and insisting on sticking to £10/point, 10p a mile had been made in 2006/7.

 

You simply can't change your viewpoint to that degree to suit the needs of your own team - you have to remain reasonably consistent.

 

Speak to Dale Allitt, for a start. His viewpoint is one of accepting that the clubs in the league have different agendas and tailoring the league itself to suit all parties as much as possible .

Edited October 20, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[montie]

 

 

Of course the question is has this held back Stefan's career this year? would he have made it into the top 5? - but then again is it part of a win at all cost policy - of course not mentioning is it 4 Double up riders? which of course keeps 4 young Brits out of the sport. Would like all clubs in the NL to be in it to win it, but do not rate hypocrisy.

 

 

 

Kev

 

So you think its wrong we kept together a group or riders who had been a great success,this whole team got us into the play offs,not one rider!!!!

 

Were you one of the baffoons on the Save the fentigers facebook page during the spring slagging R.G of for kicking you out of the league??when the whole time they were trying to push through a deal that involved the current promotion???

[PremierRebel]

Whats happening with the plans at BRISTOL..????

 

Just had to ensure nobody would be decapitated by wind turbines now they nearly have the all clear to start building a track

[montie]

Just had to ensure nobody would be decapitated by wind turbines now they nearly have the all clear to start building a track

 

Did that actually come into consideration?????

[Nikko]

Now thats not strictly true but lets not stop facts getting in the way of your point.

 

And Mr Godfrey has simply changed his tune as HT has stated. When Scunthorpe were a standard alone CL team he had one (strong) opinion and wasnt afraid to voice it at every opportunity.

 

Now he has exactly the opinion he used to argue against.

 

At the end of the day he has the right to do what he wants with his club and rightly so but dont try and change history.

 

It will be a great shame if they are not in the NL next season and personaly i hope they are.

[moorwell]

Now thats not strictly true but lets not stop facts getting in the way of your point.

 

And Mr Godfrey has simply changed his tune as HT has stated. When Scunthorpe were a standard alone CL team he had one (strong) opinion and wasnt afraid to voice it at every opportunity.

 

Now he has exactly the opinion he used to argue against.

 

At the end of the day he has the right to do what he wants with his club and rightly so but dont try and change history.

 

It will be a great shame if they are not in the NL next season and personaly i hope they are.

What a lot of rubbish is being spouted by people who quite clearly are blinkered.For the record all my riders during the cl days were on basic money not one of them were on big money,if you dont believe as you quite clearly dont ask Tai woffinden or Josh Auty what they got while riding for scunthorpe,As for changing my opinion where has that happened ,our objective has always been to bring youngsters on by leaving them in our team when others would have dropped them .how do you think we got to where we are now The last three years have been development years and were hard on team managers Malcom Vasey and Stuart Parnaby who had to take constant defeats on the chin but this year we changed our approach to actually win the league so team orders did change but to challange for honours Any way thats as mutch as your going to get from me the rider will do the rest COME ON U SAINTS

Rob Godfrey

[Nikko]

Attack the post not the poster Mr Godfrey.

 

I was respectful in my post shame the same cannot be said in yours and you linked to my post and yet raised points made by others.

 

For the record i know both Malcolm and Stuart and have the utmost respect for them both.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Nikko

[Edwardian]

For heavens sake can this not be left to a later date. These riders have a final to get through it is the last thing they need on there minds. ' am I rideing myself out of a job' totally inconsiderate in my my opinion.

[montie]

Attack the post not the poster Mr Godfrey.

 

 

YOu were one of the chappies attacking RG[and others] on the save the fentigers facebook Nikko,maybe hes attacking back!!!!

[Bigballs]

For heavens sake can this not be left to a later date. These riders have a final to get through it is the last thing they need on there minds. ' am I rideing myself out of a job' totally inconsiderate in my my opinion.

I wouldn't worry yourself, someones loss is someones gain.

[montie]

For heavens sake can this not be left to a later date. These riders have a final to get through it is the last thing they need on there minds. ' am I rideing myself out of a job' totally inconsiderate in my my opinion.

 

To be fair though,this team you could say now has 4 x NL number ones in it,so they were never gonna stay together due to averages,and these lads need to progress,maybe to clubs who pay a little more than a development team like Scunny do

[norwichkev]

So you think its wrong we kept together a group or riders who had been a great success,this whole team got us into the play offs,not one rider!!!!

 

Were you one of the baffoons on the Save the fentigers facebook page during the spring slagging R.G of for kicking you out of the league??when the whole time they were trying to push through a deal that involved the current promotion???

Montie read the whole post, instead of the sniping at other teams just acknowledge that you are in it to win it rather than the constant harping of how you are the saviour of Young Brits - when actions suggest otherwise.

 

But you can't help yourself. One rider got us into the play-offs - which one? Cameron has done superbly in the handful of meetings and is deservedly number 1 ( Stefan has been excellent and can still ride Number 7? ), Lewis started the season at reserve and is now a Heat Leader whilst the rest have dug in deep and worked as a team.

 

And no, no idea of the Facebook thing all though have seen it on here. As I said on an earlier post IF R.G. had a hand in anything underhand then quite rightly he should be pilloried - as should any other promoter - but I've not seen anything that supports that, and surely Mildenhall promotion would not have been too amenable to changing dates if bad blood did exist?.

 

Kev

[Skeggy Scorpion]

Scunny not running 2012 in NL

Edited October 20, 2011 by Skeggy Scorpion

[speedy bill]

Buxton looks dodgy it will be a sad day if they go but Jayne did not travel much this year with a young family to think of not a surprise. Any chanceof a I O W style cosortium taking over .

[Halifaxtiger]

What a lot of rubbish is being spouted by people who quite clearly are blinkered.For the record all my riders during the cl days were on basic money not one of them were on big money,if you dont believe as you quite clearly dont ask Tai woffinden or Josh Auty what they got while riding for scunthorpe,As for changing my opinion where has that happened ,our objective has always been to bring youngsters on by leaving them in our team when others would have dropped them .how do you think we got to where we are now The last three years have been development years and were hard on team managers Malcom Vasey and Stuart Parnaby who had to take constant defeats on the chin but this year we changed our approach to actually win the league so team orders did change but to challange for honours Any way thats as mutch as your going to get from me the rider will do the rest COME ON U SAINTS

Rob Godfrey

 

I am certainly neither blinkered nor subjective and, knowing Nikko, neither is he.

 

I would say I have made no secret of my regard for Scunthorpe Speedway and, in particular, their model set up at third tier level. Indeed, I have agreed with Montie's comments in respect of the NL side this season.

 

The thing is though is according to that article you are against older riders being introduced into the National League and a 'win at all costs' attitude, presumably aiming that comment at the likes of Mildenhall, Dudley, Stoke and others.

 

What sticks in my craw is that is exactly what you did when Scunthorpe were a stand alone NL side, yet now you object to it (albeit not as violently as in the past). Whilst it would be true to suggest that some of the most talented young riders in British Speedway learnt their trade at EWR, you were never averse to signing experienced riders to take their place if, for some reason, they were not available or there was no youngster good enough to be highly competitive at NL level.

 

As such, there is a clear change in opinion and practice (in fact, it is a 180 degree one) almost certainly provoked by the changing status of Scunthorpe's NL side.

 

Personally, I'd say there was no change to approach this season; the current members of the Saints side have just improved significantly.

 

As I have said, I prefer the viewpoint of Dale Allitt. He recognises that there has to be scope in the NL for both stand alone and double up clubs and that both have to have regard of the others needs and cannot have it all their own way at the expense of the other.

 

Its a viewpoint that is unselfish, sensible and practical and, because of that, its highly persuasive as well.

 

On a final note, I certainly don't expect you to reveal the financial commitments to riders on a public forum. However, I believe it has been admitted on this forum in the past that Scorpions riders were indeed paid above the fixed NL rate during 2006/7.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[scribbler]

I am certainly neither blinkered nor subjective and, knowing Nikko, neither is he.

 

 

The thing is though is according to that article you are against older riders being introduced into the National League and a 'win at all costs' attitude, presumably aiming that comment at the likes of Mildenhall, Dudley, Stoke and others.

 

What sticks in my craw is that is exactly what you did when Scunthorpe were an NL side, yet now you object to it (albeit not as violently as in the past). Whilst it would be true to suggest that some of the most talented young riders in British Speedway learnt their trade at EWR, you were never averse to signing experienced riders to take their place if, for some reason, they were not available or there was no youngster good enough to be highly competitive at NL level.

 

Are you saying that Scunthorpe should not replace a rider with a guest of a similar average?

 

Young, successful riders have attained a high enough average to enable them to be replaced by a rider of the same/similar average. If that guest rider is an older or more mature rider that is not the fault of Scunthorpe - it is the fault of other teams who have not developed younger riders for Scunthorpe to use.

 

Are you expecting Scunthorpe to use a less-experienced rider - and therefore lower the standard of their competitiveness? Should Scunthorpe be the only team to be disadvantaged in this way just to prove that they do develop youngsters?

 

Older, more mature riders are available for Scunthorpe to use as guests because other teams use older, more mature riders. Neither the other teams or Scunthorpe are using those riders illegally. Scunthorpe prefer to use their own riders - but when they can't, like any other team, they will use guests at the same standard. Blame the system which encourages other teams to use these experienced riders in their team all the time - not Scunthorpe for using them as guests.

[Halifaxtiger]

Are you saying that Scunthorpe should not replace a rider with a guest of a similar average?

 

Young, successful riders have attained a high enough average to enable them to be replaced by a rider of the same/similar average. If that guest rider is an older or more mature rider that is not the fault of Scunthorpe - it is the fault of other teams who have not developed younger riders for Scunthorpe to use.

 

Are you expecting Scunthorpe to use a less-experienced rider - and therefore lower the standard of their competitiveness? Should Scunthorpe be the only team to be disadvantaged in this way just to prove that they do develop youngsters?

 

Older, more mature riders are available for Scunthorpe to use as guests because other teams use older, more mature riders. Neither the other teams or Scunthorpe are using those riders illegally. Scunthorpe prefer to use their own riders - but when they can't, like any other team, they will use guests at the same standard. Blame the system which encourages other teams to use these experienced riders in their team all the time - not Scunthorpe for using them as guests.

 

No, I am not saying that at all.

 

Read the list of experienced and/or older riders I have listed because none of them were guests. If you want a few more I will name them as well.

 

This is what Rob Godfrey has said in the article, giving it as a reason for pulling out of the NL:

 

'There are too many teams out to win at all costs and bringing older riders in'.

 

He did precisely that when Scunny were a stand alone club, evidenced by those riders I have named. When his young riders were out, he didn't hesitate to bring in experienced riders (not as guests but members of the squad). What he didn't do was promote a young junior instead (unless that junior was highly competitive).

 

That means he was perfectly prepared to use older riders to win matches when Scunny were a stand alone club. Win at all costs ? I'd say so.

 

Make no mistake, I don't blame him for that. What I can't stomach is that now that Scunny's position has changed he is trying to stop others doing exactly the same thing.

 

Just to show I am not blinkered, this aside I have nothing but the greatest regard for Scunthorpe Speedway and have said so many times.