How Many Teams In Nl In 2012

[alan_boon]

I've always thought it would make good sense - financial and otherwise - for EL (and some PL) clubs to "adopt" an NL track. Obviously, King's Lynn, Newport, Sheffield/Scunthorpe & Belle Vue already have such links, but the standalone clubs could, if necessary, use the support. For instance, it wouldn't be rocket science for Wolves to use Dudley as a farm team (that that Dudley appear to need it), or Ipswich to use Mildenhall. Poole could help out Isle of Wight (they used to have a closer relationship in IOW's PL days, I'm told), and perhaps Birmingham or Coventry could back Buxton. This could be in the form of financial help, with track equipment, or giving opportunities to riders. For instance, if Buxton were to link with Coventry, the Buxton track could be used for small track practice for any new signings Coventry may make, Coventry could get first "dibs" on riders like Nick Morris & Robert Branford, Buxton would get easier access to using Coventry assets for team & individual meetings, and so on.

 

It's too obvious not to have been tried, but is it worth approaching the BSPA with regards to a more formal arrangement?

[Halifaxtiger]

Not to forget that a lot of them work full time to pay and have to do a full days work and preapre bikes and ride.

 

Forgive me HT if I am missing the pojnt I keep hearing these phrases Dangerous riding....Dangerous riders......Dangerous tracks.

 

 

Is it not the fact that it is a Dangerous Sport and people are going to get hurt and this is particular to key ties where there is no such thing as 2nd place only winners and losers.

 

Very true. I know Barrie fits his work round his racing while Paul Kirby (Adam's dad) hasn't always found it easy to take time off.

 

No one doubts its a very dangerous sport indeed - personally, I think are all one brick short of a hod to ride a bike without brakes at speeds of 50mph and more - and accidents are, sadly, an almost inevitable part of racing. The thing is though is that while poorly prepared surfaces ruin the entertainment for paying spectators that pales into comparison with the effect they can have on riders. Buxton that day was as bad as anything I have seen, even exceeding Belle Vue v Dudley.

 

I think Jayne got upset about the criticism on here but, in my view, it was fully justified and to her great credit it wasn't like it again for the rest of the season.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[Jayne]

Very true. I know Barrie fits his work round his racing while Paul Kirby (Adam's dad) hasn't always found it easy to take time off.

 

No one doubts its a very dangerous sport indeed - personally, I think are all one brick short of a hod to ride a bike without brakes at speeds of 50mph and more - and accidents are, sadly, an almost inevitable part of racing. The thing is though is that while poorly prepared surfaces ruin the entertainment for paying spectators that pales into comparison with the effect they can have on riders. Buxton that day was as bad as anything I have seen, even exceeding Belle Vue v Dudley.

 

I think Jayne got upset about the criticism on here but, in my view, it was fully justified and to her great credit it wasn't like it again for the rest of the season.

 

 

I just dont think the track was that bad and if it was why did the Mildenhall riders/promotion not ask the referee to inspect it. What I get fed up of is the fact that the track is prepared the same every week but people can't or won't accept that. I don't have anything to do with preparing the track and wouldn't know where to start so I cant accept any credit for it at all. One thing I can guarantee though is that the track was not prepared any differently after the Mildenhall meeting.

[ancient mariner]

I just dont think the track was that bad and if it was why did the Mildenhall riders/promotion not ask the referee to inspect it. What I get fed up of is the fact that the track is prepared the same every week but people can't or won't accept that. I don't have anything to do with preparing the track and wouldn't know where to start so I cant accept any credit for it at all. One thing I can guarantee though is that the track was not prepared any differently after the Mildenhall meeting.

 

I've visited Hi Edge a number of times. To suggest that the track is at the mercy of the elements is probably an understatement. Hi Edge gets only extremes. Incredibly hot, cold, windy, wet or any combination. To suggest that the track preparation is poor is simplistic I would suggest. It is and can only be as good as the weather allows.

 

Best wishes to both Jayne and the Hitmen for 2012; a promotion that reflects absolutely all that is best in the NL

[sc178]

Having been a visiting rider to Buxton for many years, I would say the track this year was the best it has been when i was there. It's just a case of what the weather is like up there. I know all my team, when we carried out our track walk all said it was the best we've seen it. There are certainly other tracks less well prepared than Buxton this season..

[teddy2706]

The sport is specialised and is thus expensive compared to MX or even road racing where at the lower levels riders pay to ride.

Machinery is too highly tuned to be durable, the control tyre is far too expensive and is an environmental disaster due to it's high wear rate.

The fuel is highly poisonous despite it's green credentials and carburettor cost is ridiculous.

The frames and forks seem to be easy to bend, clutches expensive and high maintenance.

Fuel costs to get to meetings from one end of the country to the other is massive.

Short track, ridden on the some of the same tracks as speedway appears to be less expensive and has more action due to a higher number of riders and a greater number of laps per race.

Maybe it is time to grasp the nettle regarding engines, perhaps using MX based units complete with silencers and running on petrol or insisting on power limits, it was acheived years ago in Ice Racing by restriction to the use of two valve engines albeit on safety, not cost grounds.

Plainly, engines being tuned to higher and higher outputs with rear tyres spinning insanely can only lead to spiralling costs, thus endangering the possibility of NL clubs continuing profitably?

The overheads to competing in the sport have to be brought under control and soon, introducing new silencers etc can only make things worse, not better.

As for introducing foreigners into the NL, how can that possibly aid youth development in Britain or keep costs down?

Buxton may be an aquired taste, but losing it would be terrible, crying shame.

Having been treated to a miserable, uninteresting procession at Leicester on Saturday night, maybe more supporters might want to try the sheer unpredictability and excitment of NL racing?

I don't think they will be disappointed!

[greyhoundp]

 

Its absolutely true that money does not guarantee success, but it does make it more likely to happen. No sport will prove both points more than football.

 

 

Yes i realise i mentioned Football earlier, but in Football you can, money permitting go out and buy whoever you fancy <Man City> whereas in Speedway, especially NL Speedway, you have to be able to spot talent who is likely to improve on last seasons average,yes having a little money helps to attract riders, but then its down to riders,injuries, and a little bit of luck, without which nothing is won.

 

I have no doubts my Team Dudley are already formulating there Team for 2012, and no doubt the backbone is already there, however there is a little bit of tweaking needed for 2012, but none of this can be done before the points limit is agreed, minimum average also needs to be looked at,etc,etc, I also think the points limit has to be tied in with how many teams are expected to compete in The NL in 2012, in my opinion if there are 10 teams then it should stay the same, but if it is 12 teams then it may need to be 38 ish.I am no great believer in points limits but there are only a certain ammount of riders of a certain standard available, and they have to be shared around for Teams to be competitive, until there is another better way to do this it is with us for the forseeable future.

 

Having read my post through, minimum average could be misconstrued, i meant minimum individual riders average which is presently 3 points, there is no doubts riders like Adam Blacklock,Danny Stoneman,Adam Portwood and others are hampered at the beginning of there career by not being able to achieve this average, therefore Teams are less likely to offer them a team spot unless there is no other option available to them.

Edited October 12, 2011 by greyhoundp

[Jayne]

Lowering the points limit is not the answer, and would only be a short term solution. It will dilute the product and the riders competing will have inflated averages at the end of the year which makes it harder for them the following year. Whatever the points limit is set at, a team will still need to score 46 points to win a meeting.

[Halifaxtiger]

I just dont think the track was that bad and if it was why did the Mildenhall riders/promotion not ask the referee to inspect it. What I get fed up of is the fact that the track is prepared the same every week but people can't or won't accept that. I don't have anything to do with preparing the track and wouldn't know where to start so I cant accept any credit for it at all. One thing I can guarantee though is that the track was not prepared any differently after the Mildenhall meeting.

 

If I remember correctly, Jayne, Michael Lee was anything but complimentary in his comments on the Mildenhall website.

 

The thing is the surface went from one which a friend of mine (a regular spectator at Buxton and poster on this forum)thought was so bad he and his Dad stated they would never attend again to one that Paul Starke said was the best he has ridden at Hi Edge - and that was the next week !!

 

If I have trouble accepting that the track is prepared the same every week (and I have no reason to doubt your word) given the apparently remarkable change its easy to see why.

 

I've visited Hi Edge a number of times. To suggest that the track is at the mercy of the elements is probably an understatement. Hi Edge gets only extremes. Incredibly hot, cold, windy, wet or any combination. To suggest that the track preparation is poor is simplistic I would suggest. It is and can only be as good as the weather allows.

 

 

Its very true to suggest that Hi Edge is more affected by the weather than almost every other track but I don't think that can account for track preparation completely. As an example, I was told that Stoke's poor surface in the play off semi was as a result of a hot, windy day, only to travel down to Mildenhall and find an absolutely superb racing track despite temperatures pushing 90 degrees (and Mildenhall ride in the afternoons).

 

I really don't think that the question of track surfaces can be overstated. In my view, given that the quality of the racing is determined by the quality of the track it is single most important factor in British Speedway's ability to grow and prosper.

 

As for introducing foreigners into the NL, how can that possibly aid youth development in Britain or keep costs down?

Buxton may be an aquired taste, but losing it would be terrible, crying shame.

Having been treated to a miserable, uninteresting procession at Leicester on Saturday night, maybe more supporters might want to try the sheer unpredictability and excitment of NL racing?

I don't think they will be disappointed!

 

I don't think that 1 rider in 7 being a foreigner will affect British youth development disastrously. They also add a considerable amount of colour to the league, something that is necessary for its financial well being - look no further than Cameron Heeps.

 

I also don't think Buxton is an acquired taste - it can be a very decent racing track on occasion. Not the best, but not the worst either. One thing we can agree on is that losing it would be very hard to stomach.

 

In truth (and I have made this point elsewhere) the level at which you watch speedway does not determine how good the racing is. I am now pushing 70 matches this season and of the best 5 two of them are NL (at Scunthorpe and Mildenhall). The problem is that there are those who continually look down on the third tier because the quality of the rider is lower.

 

Lowering the points limit is not the answer, and would only be a short term solution. It will dilute the product and the riders competing will have inflated averages at the end of the year which makes it harder for them the following year. Whatever the points limit is set at, a team will still need to score 46 points to win a meeting.

 

I agree with greyhoundp here (not just on the points limit but virtually everything he has said).

 

If there is only a certain pool of riders and the desire is to have everyone reasonably equal, then the points limit has to come down if new teams are in.

 

You're absolutely right that the product will be diluted and some may have inflated averages, but that would be better than a have's have not's and have more's league dictated by money.

[montie]

 

In truth (and I have made this point elsewhere) the level at which you watch speedway does not determine how good the racing is. I am now pushing 70 matches this season and of the best 5 two of them are NL (at Scunthorpe and Mildenhall). The problem is that there are those who continually look down on the third tier because the quality of the rider is lower.

 

 

Which was the Scunny meeting HT???

 

Some of the best tracing at Scunny in the last 2 years has been at NL level,i think last year it was Saints v Young Stars,on a track that was a as slick as a track can get,produced 15 heats of top class racing,with heat 15 Buzz and Lambert going at each other,that was still one of the best races i have even seen,only thing wrong with it it only lasted 4 laps!!!

 

Edit:sorry,it wasnt the Young Stars,it was Buxton,Lambert was guesting

Edited October 12, 2011 by montie

[duffyscouse]

NL has rekindled my appetite this season - I was getting a little sick of things PL (just a phase I think - I am of the age where that happens i think) - I went away to Sheffield a couple of times - with good people - and watched a familair set up in unfamiliar surroundings that pretty soon felt like home

 

Seeing young lads develop and progress has massive rewards - its not all about the finance for them - its will to win, daring, nerve testing (very much so for some), a bit of bravado - coming to terms with new tracks and set ups - all in it togehter and friends sharing attitude

 

It spills over into the crowd - infectious - like i say re-ignited my mid season slumber - and appetite for PL racing too

 

Decent lads with nothing more in mind than to ride and race - breath of fresh air !

 

Long live the NL !

Edited October 12, 2011 by duffyscouse

[greyhoundp]

The sport is specialised and is thus expensive compared to MX or even road racing where at the lower levels riders pay to ride.

Machinery is too highly tuned to be durable, the control tyre is far too expensive and is an environmental disaster due to it's high wear rate.

The fuel is highly poisonous despite it's green credentials and carburettor cost is ridiculous.

The frames and forks seem to be easy to bend, clutches expensive and high maintenance.

Fuel costs to get to meetings from one end of the country to the other is massive.

Short track, ridden on the some of the same tracks as speedway appears to be less expensive and has more action due to a higher number of riders and a greater number of laps per race.

Maybe it is time to grasp the nettle regarding engines, perhaps using MX based units complete with silencers and running on petrol or insisting on power limits, it was acheived years ago in Ice Racing by restriction to the use of two valve engines albeit on safety, not cost grounds.

Plainly, engines being tuned to higher and higher outputs with rear tyres spinning insanely can only lead to spiralling costs, thus endangering the possibility of NL clubs continuing profitably?

The overheads to competing in the sport have to be brought under control and soon, introducing new silencers etc can only make things worse, not better.

As for introducing foreigners into the NL, how can that possibly aid youth development in Britain or keep costs down?

Buxton may be an aquired taste, but losing it would be terrible, crying shame.

Having been treated to a miserable, uninteresting procession at Leicester on Saturday night, maybe more supporters might want to try the sheer unpredictability and excitment of NL racing?

I don't think they will be disappointed!

 

Cracking post Oldsparky, you have raised some valid and relevant points with regards cost, Travel costs there is not much that can be done about these they are mostly out of our control.

Riders machinery, I am no expert on this matter, surely it is not beyond the realms of possibility that all riders have to use uniform standardised factory machines,anything that is NON Standard is not allowed, that is what Machine examiners are for surely?.

Which machinery ?? whichever is a cheaper viable Option that has to be the choice, Fuel to run the machines on has to be taken into account.

New Silencers, unless this is an FIM requirement then the cheaper Option should be used.

Tyres, again a longer lasting Tyre has to be found and used.

 

So in summary, Travel costs, Machinery costs, Fuel costs, Ancillary Equipment costs they all need to be brought down.I am discussing what i really have very little knowledge about, but to me an ordinary supporter, these things are something that are long overdue.

 

The NDL, surely this is the League where changes need to be tested and implemented, some will work some wont work, but that is the nature of the beast, if we stay as we are, then things will continue to look grim for the smaller clubs.

Edited October 12, 2011 by greyhoundp

[Halifaxtiger]

Which was the Scunny meeting HT???

 

Some of the best tracing at Scunny in the last 2 years has been at NL level,i think last year it was Saints v Young Stars,on a track that was a as slick as a track can get,produced 15 heats of top class racing,with heat 15 Buzz and Lambert going at each other,that was still one of the best races i have even seen,only thing wrong with it it only lasted 4 laps!!!

 

Edit:sorry,it wasnt the Young Stars,it was Buxton,Lambert was guesting

 

Scunthorpe v King's Lynn. Brilliant virtually from start to finish and a big improvement on the preceding PL match.

 

In truth, its rare I see a bad match at EWR.

 

The other was Mildenhall v Scunthorpe - an absolute cracker. Mildenhall v Stoke was almost as good.

[June]

Which was the Scunny meeting HT???

 

Some of the best tracing at Scunny in the last 2 years has been at NL level,i think last year it was Saints v Young Stars,on a track that was a as slick as a track can get,produced 15 heats of top class racing,with heat 15 Buzz and Lambert going at each other,that was still one of the best races i have even seen,only thing wrong with it it only lasted 4 laps!!!

 

Edit:sorry,it wasnt the Young Stars,it was Buxton,Lambert was guesting

Got to agree with your choice montie. that would have to be my favourite race of recent times at Scunny. I said at the time it was worth the entrance fee alone.brill meeting!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

a few points i wish to say are, 1 ,the worst track ive rode this year was by far mildenhall when buxton were there it was dreadfull, but a track is there to be ridden , on the bikes issue , there is no need for almost any tuning in the

NL , i know some national league riders who spend a fortune on engines ,they pay fortunes on tuners and there is no need when if they just spent a bit of money on an old engine strip it apart and learnt how it works and how to so called tune it ,it is not rocket science but it will save you a fortune untill you move up to premier league,there are more components in a meccarno set , this is a fact, i brought a GM engine from a rider for £100 ,it was siezed up , i put a second hand piston in and brought a barrel for £100 ,£200 in total , i started using that engine half way through the season and ive beat nearly all the no1,s in the league at buxton on it(some ride in PL) , i service it myself at a cost of £40 parts ,and did that 3 times all season , if it blows up so what it was peanuts ,ill just get another and do the same ,i also have a expensive GM but it dosent get used and i also service that myself , a bog standared engine is easily good enough for NL ,if im crap somewhere its not the engine its me , and some riders buy new seats and gaurds and covers and all the bling instead of chains ,cables ,bearings and so on ,the things that really make the difference ,my point of all this is speedway dosent have to be expensive at NL level if you use your brain and learn something ,3, speedway is the only real motor sport that pays you to ride ,ride motocross,road racing and see how much travel expenses and points money you get there , nothing ,sod all ,NL speedway dosent owe you a living , and personally i think it amazing that i get £10 a point for doing something i love

[greyhoundp]

a few points i wish to say are, 1 ,the worst track ive rode this year was by far mildenhall when buxton were there it was dreadfull, but a track is there to be ridden , on the bikes issue , there is no need for almost any tuning in the

NL , i know some national league riders who spend a fortune on engines ,they pay fortunes on tuners and there is no need when if they just spent a bit of money on an old engine strip it apart and learnt how it works and how to so called tune it ,it is not rocket science but it will save you a fortune untill you move up to premier league,there are more components in a meccarno set , this is a fact, i brought a GM engine from a rider for £100 ,it was siezed up , i put a second hand piston in and brought a barrel for £100 ,£200 in total , i started using that engine half way through the season and ive beat nearly all the no1,s in the league at buxton on it(some ride in PL) , i service it myself at a cost of £40 parts ,and did that 3 times all season , if it blows up so what it was peanuts ,ill just get another and do the same ,i also have a expensive GM but it dosent get used and i also service that myself , a bog standared engine is easily good enough for NL ,if im crap somewhere its not the engine its me , and some riders buy new seats and gaurds and covers and all the bling instead of chains ,cables ,bearings and so on ,the things that really make the difference ,my point of all this is speedway dosent have to be expensive at NL level if you use your brain and learn something ,3, speedway is the only real motor sport that pays you to ride ,ride motocross,road racing and see how much travel expenses and points money you get there , nothing ,sod all ,NL speedway dosent owe you a living , and personally i think it amazing that i get £10 a point for doing something i love

 

Deanno, just love that post, from what you have posted it need not be so expensive, at least not in the NL.

 

So as someone who is experienced in riding and how can we keep the costs down,its pretty obvious most riders keep trying to keep one step ahead, so how is that eliminated which is where the extra cost is brought in, what about tyres ??can any savings be made.? Can something be brought in similar to F1 where maybe a tyre has to be used for X amount of meetings ?. I have no idea on these things, but every avenue needs to explored to get costs down.

Edited October 12, 2011 by greyhoundp

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Deanno, just love that post, from what you have posted it need not be so expensive, at least not in the NL.

 

So as someone who is experienced in riding and how can we keep the costs down,its pretty obvious most riders keep trying to keep one step ahead, so how is that eliminated which is where the extra cost is brought in, what about tyres ??can any savings be made.? Can something be brought in similar to F1 where maybe a tyre has to be used for X amount of meetings ?. I have no idea on these things, but every avenue needs to explored to get costs down.

tyres are not really an issue in the NL ,cause you dont have to use a new one and i have only used 1 new one all year and that was sponsored by someone , motor sport is always going to be expensive to a certain degree but just a bit of engine knowledge goes a very long way in speedway , my advice to any NL rider is learn about the bike you ride ,dont just buy something cause englebert smith,s got one and he is a good rider, A 10 year old GM/JAWA crank case is just that ,its a crankcase there is no power or performance in it at all,it goes exactly the same speed as a brand new one ,learn that the power is all above it ,same as a old wheel ,put new bearings in and it spins at the same speed as a new one, dirt deflectors should be scrapped cause they do a little less that sod all ,there,s a £200 saving straight away , maybe only 1 type of carb can be used ,such as a bz , maybe you can only use NEB/JAWA clutch plates in national league £10 each as opposed to harushi plates £40 each ,im sure paul bennett wont mind me saying this but if you put mine and his clutch plates together you wouldnt make a good set between them and we both got a maximum in buxtons last meeting ,

[Ben91]

Very interesting points from Dean, maybe this is where the problem lies, it is clear to see a lot of the young British lads who come through are more interested on the image and the little girls who follow them because they are a 'speedway rider' rather than progressing in the sport itself, that's why many amount to no more than second half riders.

 

If these lads were shown how to prepare their own bikes and how that can save them money then they may progress better and further in the sport.

 

On the points limit, it does need lowering, it doesn't dillute the product, it just encourages the use of more three point riders, especially in teams who want to use a top rider or two.

[Blazeaway]

The track is 'prepped' the same every week but the weather plays a huge part at Buxton. This years crowds aren't particularly down on last year but the sad fact is costs keep increasing but the crowd base doesn't increase in line with the costs. We have never had average crowds of 300 (even in 2010 when we won everything!!!), if we did we wouldn't have any worries

 

 

That begs the question is there enough being done to promote your club? I wish I lived closer to Buxton it's an awesome place to watch speedway. I don't know much about the catchment area but surely crowds of 300 are attainable?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Very interesting points from Dean, maybe this is where the problem lies, it is clear to see a lot of the young British lads who come through are more interested on the image and the little girls who follow them because they are a 'speedway rider' rather than progressing in the sport itself, that's why many amount to no more than second half riders.

 

If these lads were shown how to prepare their own bikes and how that can save them money then they may progress better and further in the sport.

 

On the points limit, it does need lowering, it doesn't dillute the product, it just encourages the use of more three point riders, especially in teams who want to use a top rider or two.

unfortunatly some riders would rather buy the latest phone than a primary chain or cables for their bikes ,it would only be around 10% of NL riders who have a clue what goes on inside their engines ,stripping and engine serviceing and rebuilding it and understanding how it all works is not something you need a degree in ,it is quite straight forward , one of my work customers who used to make engines for motorcross and trials in the 70s laughs at speedway engines because they are basically the same engine that were used in the 60s ,nothing has really changed , its just got lighter ,but its still the same parts ,there is nothing special in there, it is a overhead cam combustion engine ,thats all, set your self up with a press and the tools ,then buy an old engine off ebay or wherever and spend the winter learning about striping it down and rebuilding it, valve timing etc , you will save a fortune in engine repairs