How Many Teams In Nl In 2012

[Edwardian]

Really dont understand what you actually mean here.

it might be something to do with riders in the NL needing more than £10 a point, i understand promoters side of it some clubs

just do not have the support other clubs have, but with the outgoings these NL riders occur £10 a point is just not enough

[MrMungo]

it might be something to do with riders in the NL needing more than £10 a point, i understand promoters side of it some clubs

just do not have the support other clubs have, but with the outgoings these NL riders occur £10 a point is just not enough

Fully agreed, EdwardIan. 10p a mile doesn't get you very far either!

[Jayne]

At the risk of being insulting, I would have thought that was rather obvious. Buxton's average gate is in the region of 300, yours in the region of 4 times that. There are no pay restraints in the NL (despite what you might believe) and if Adam Allott fancies a move to Dudley next year (which, in view of his form there this year, isn't that unthinkable) the Heathens can outbid Buxton for his services.

 

Its exactly the same as the other two leagues, just on a smaller scale in terms of wages.

 

Not insulting at all but I wish it was in the region of 300 dont think there would be a problem then!!! As for saying the riders need more than £10 per point then that is fine but what happens if you havent got the funds to do that? I know several riders who were promised more than that and are outstanding wages from their respective clubs and it seems to happen every year. Buxton could agree to pay riders £30 per point but it wouldn't last long and the club would soon be bankrupt as there is not sufficient income to sustain high wages. Saying that though the problem has always existed in the third tier and I guess it will do long after we are not here. The costs are too high for everyone riders included especially as next year sees the new silencers as compulsary in the NL.

[devilsukfan]

i heard bristol were joining next year because Kyle Hughes said in our local paper he has agreed to Number 1 for them next year

[villiers210]

At the risk of being insulting, I would have thought that was rather obvious. Buxton's average gate is in the region of 300, yours in the region of 4 times that. There are no pay restraints in the NL (despite what you might believe) and if Adam Allott fancies a move to Dudley next year (which, in view of his form there this year, isn't that unthinkable) the Heathens can outbid Buxton for his services.

 

Its exactly the same as the other two leagues, just on a smaller scale in terms of wages.

and at the risk of being insulting to you, perhaps someone should look at why our gates are 4 times the size!! If a club who has been defunct for as long as ours has to come back and get such crowds, we are obviously doing something right.

 

As far as pay restraints in the NL are concerned, I would love to know why it is that you are assuming that Dudley would "outbid" anyone. Lets be totally fair here, you name me one rider who makes money from riding in the NL cause I dont know to any.

[roguetrader]

and at the risk of being insulting to you, perhaps someone should look at why our gates are 4 times the size!! If a club who has been defunct for as long as ours has to come back and get such crowds, we are obviously doing something right.

 

As far as pay restraints in the NL are concerned, I would love to know why it is that you are assuming that Dudley would "outbid" anyone. Lets be totally fair here, you name me one rider who makes money from riding in the NL cause I dont know to any.

 

You need to do a bit of homework. Do you really think Jon Armstrong Kyle Newman and Adam Roynon were riding for 10 pound a point?

[villiers210]

You need to do a bit of homework. Do you really think Jon Armstrong Kyle Newman and Adam Roynon were riding for 10 pound a point?

and er excuse me - where did I say they were???? You need to learn to read! Jon Armstrong has a full time job apart from speedway. Kyle Newman rode EL & PL to increase his income. Adam Roynon rode PL to increase his earnings. If you have inside information as to how much our riders are earning - pray do tell!! What I said was that I do not know to 1 rider who makes money out of riding in the NL. Tell me 1 if you KNOW this not to be the case.

 

On the other hand (as I strongly suspect) you see a sucessful club like Dudley and automatically jump to the conclusion that they are paying their riders fantastic amounts. Same old, same old.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

and at the risk of being insulting to you, perhaps someone should look at why our gates are 4 times the size!! If a club who has been defunct for as long as ours has to come back and get such crowds, we are obviously doing something right.

 

As far as pay restraints in the NL are concerned, I would love to know why it is that you are assuming that Dudley would "outbid" anyone. Lets be totally fair here, you name me one rider who makes money from riding in the NL cause I dont know to any.

ive done ok out of riding NL this year ,wouldnt say ive really made alot but it hasnt cost me money

[speedy bill]

and er excuse me - where did I say they were???? You need to learn to read! Jon Armstrong has a full time job apart from speedway. Kyle Newman rode EL & PL to increase his income. Adam Roynon rode PL to increase his earnings. If you have inside information as to how much our riders are earning - pray do tell!! What I said was that I do not know to 1 rider who makes money out of riding in the NL. Tell me 1 if you KNOW this not to be the case.

 

On the other hand (as I strongly suspect) you see a sucessful club like Dudley and automatically jump to the conclusion that they are paying their riders fantastic amounts. Same old, same old.

SO LETTS SEE NEXT YEAR Armo Roynon Newman ect will one of you please come ride for Buxton next year,they had to get Burnett out of retirement and sign old man Felton to make up a team this year and both did the team proud.i just hope they are both allowed back next year the younger ones dont want to ride for 10 pounds a point.The only others available are not up to speed and a stand alone club have to putt out a winning side.I have seen a british passport holder skidding after meetings and he is willing to ride for a tenner so letts hope he gets a nod for next year.

[vog]

SO LETTS SEE NEXT YEAR Armo Roynon Newman ect will one of you please come ride for Buxton next year,they had to get Burnett out of retirement and sign old man Felton to make up a team this year and both did the team proud.i just hope they are both allowed back next year the younger ones dont want to ride for 10 pounds a point.The only others available are not up to speed and a stand alone club have to putt out a winning side.I have seen a british passport holder skidding after meetings and he is willing to ride for a tenner so letts hope he gets a nod for next year.

 

I feel pretty sure that there are 3 pointers out there who would ride for £10 a point, they are not the issue. The riders who often demand more are usually those further up the team I would have thought!

[speedy bill]

Not insulting at all but I wish it was in the region of 300 dont think there would be a problem then!!! As for saying the riders need more than £10 per point then that is fine but what happens if you havent got the funds to do that? I know several riders who were promised more than that and are outstanding wages from their respective clubs and it seems to happen every year. Buxton could agree to pay riders £30 per point but it wouldn't last long and the club would soon be bankrupt as there is not sufficient income to sustain high wages. Saying that though the problem has always existed in the third tier and I guess it will do long after we are not here. The costs aretold people but they said too high for everyone riders included especially as next year sees the new silencers as compulsary in the NL.

Jayne alott of people stopped going to Buxton this year because the track was bad,dusty and rough not graded enough ect the team were not winning.But the last few meeting have been good the track prep was great and the team started winning.But the damage crowd wise had been done.I told people but they stayed away if the track is not prepared the rider canot preforme and people will not pay to watch so keep the track prep up and your crowd will return.

[villiers210]

I feel pretty sure that there are 3 pointers out there who would ride for £10 a point, they are not the issue. The riders who often demand more are usually those further up the team I would have thought!

and I would totally agree with that. I can think of 3 pointers who would give their hind teeth for a team place even at a tenner a point. And I fail to see for the life of me how any rider on a 5 or 6 point average earning a tenner a point cannot lose money riding speedway. Now if they have decent sponsors, thats another matter.

[speedy bill]

and I would totally agree with that. I can think of 3 pointers who would give their hind teeth for a team place even at a tenner a point. And I fail to see for the life of me how any rider on a 5 or 6 point average earning a tenner a point cannot lose money riding speedway. Now if they have decent sponsors, thats another matter.

so we turn up at dudley with Branford Felton Burnett and Blacklock and three three pointers to be massacered will you still get a big crowd next time we come i dout it.

[greyhoundp]

Lets get this right,it aint about being Rich in the NL or any of the Leagues, its about being Smart, no-one knows this any more than the Buxton promoter, last year they spotted potential in Morris,Branford,Garrity and took a chance on them,added to some seasonally established NL riders, the result they won everything worth winning. If it was all about money Then The Heathens would win everything in the NL, but we dont,so its not. Yes it probably helps in attracting a certain type of rider, but at the end of the day its about spotting ability, talent, and nurturing this young talent. Buxton have proved over the years masters at this, but as they know its swings and roundabouts, to get a succesful Team year in year out is almost impossible due to the nature of the League, when the Team becomes succesful it means the riders improve so they move on up and have to be replaced, only for the cycle to begin over again. The only way occasionally to break this cycle is if you happen to drop on an exeedingly talented individual rider occasionally such as Cameron Heeps at Mildenhall.

 

Any way back on Topic, if there are going to be new Teams in the Nl for 2012, such as maybe Lakeside, and perhaps 2 others such as maybe Sittingborne or Bodmin/Bristol with the anticipated loss of Newport that gives us a net gain of 2, if that does happen then two other things need to perhaps be done.1/ Points reduction to perhaps 38. 2/ The minimum points average needs to be 2.00 instead of the present 3.00 it currently penalises youngsters starting out in the NL such as Adam Portwood whose average is less than 3.00 but he has to start at a higher average than he can attain.

[villiers210]

so we turn up at dudley with Branford Felton Burnett and Blacklock and three three pointers to be massacered will you still get a big crowd next time we come i dout it.

You totally misunderstood me. I was agreeing with your point of there being 3 pointers who would ride for a tenner a point - at Buxton and elsewhere. I am not for one minute suggesting that any team should be made up in total of the likes. The point I made about earning just 50 or 60 quid a meeting is common sense - nobody can make that pay when they have to maintain their own equipment, unless they have income or help from another source.

 

With regard to your point about the crowd sizes at Dudley if the opposition was poor somewhat baffles me. Dudley supporters WILL be there no matter what the opposition. I have supported this club since 1963, and even when we we ourselves had something to celebrate if we didnt finish bottom, the crowds were still there the same size. After Scunthorpe completely anhialated us this season, the crowds still turned up in their droves for our next home match, when there was nothing more certain than we were going to take a beating.

 

I am not knocking any other club here. Why would I? I want the NL to be bigger next year with more clubs no matter what. I have nothing but respect for the riders at Buxton - after all they have always given us something to think about!!! But I'll tell you what else I have nothing but respect for. The thousands of pounds that the ordinary supporter (not sponsors) at Dudley raised for the riders, some of which greatly assisted 3 of them for the trip to Sweden to represent their country. I know this sort of thing all comes down to crowd size at the end of the day, but like I said in my original posting, we must be doing something right to pull such crowds.

 

Here's to more great Dudley vs Buxton meetings in 2012

[greyhoundp]

There is a possible way to help financially struggling Clubs such as Newport,Buxton etc,etc.

 

I gather at the moment the Home Team keeps all its gate receipts, is that a correct assumption. ??

 

What about if the Home Team took 75% or 80% of the gate monies, and the away Team received the other 20% or 25%, that figure could be whatever was decided to be reasonable, this would achieve two things. 1/ It would help out the poorly supported Teams. 2/ It would help with Cash flow when a Team has a run of away matches and costs still have to be met.

 

I realise its easy for these gate figures to be manipulated, but as i understand it, In Football if i recall correctly in the FA Cup Matches the away Team receives a portion of the Gate monies, otherwise they would receive nowt if they happened to be drawn away all the time, which can happen and has happened in the past.

 

Just an idea, i will duck down now while the bullets come firing at me.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

and I would totally agree with that. I can think of 3 pointers who would give their hind teeth for a team place even at a tenner a point. And I fail to see for the life of me how any rider on a 5 or 6 point average earning a tenner a point cannot lose money riding speedway. Now if they have decent sponsors, thats another matter.

as ive just said im a 5 point rider on £10 a point and didnt lose money this year, i do have a couple of sponsors but they are not money sponsors

[Jayne]

Jayne alott of people stopped going to Buxton this year because the track was bad,dusty and rough not graded enough ect the team were not winning.But the last few meeting have been good the track prep was great and the team started winning.But the damage crowd wise had been done.I told people but they stayed away if the track is not prepared the rider canot preforme and people will not pay to watch so keep the track prep up and your crowd will return.

 

 

The track is 'prepped' the same every week but the weather plays a huge part at Buxton. This years crowds aren't particularly down on last year but the sad fact is costs keep increasing but the crowd base doesn't increase in line with the costs. We have never had average crowds of 300 (even in 2010 when we won everything!!!), if we did we wouldn't have any worries

Edited October 11, 2011 by Jayne

[Halifaxtiger]

and at the risk of being insulting to you, perhaps someone should look at why our gates are 4 times the size!! If a club who has been defunct for as long as ours has to come back and get such crowds, we are obviously doing something right.

 

As far as pay restraints in the NL are concerned, I would love to know why it is that you are assuming that Dudley would "outbid" anyone. Lets be totally fair here, you name me one rider who makes money from riding in the NL cause I dont know to any.

 

There are a number of reasons for that. Most clubs that have made a comeback after a considerable amount of time usually do well at least initially because there is an existing fan base (Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Workington). Having a town centre track that is easily accessible and a good stadium helps - there's nothing wrong with Buxton, but Monmore Green it isn't.

 

I am not saying that Dudley would, but they most certainly could (ask King's Lynn about that one). I don't think many riders make money from NL speedway but being offered £20 a point instead of £10 clearly makes a difference.

 

ive done ok out of riding NL this year ,wouldnt say ive really made alot but it hasnt cost me money

 

I'd be interested to know if that has been the case over several seasons, Dean. Most riders (particularly the very young ones) I know on base rates have to be supported by parents, grandparents etc (hence why they have 'Grandad' on their kevlars). One engine blow up can cost several weeks earnings, and a trip to Plymouth (when they were in the NL)is nowhere near covered by 10p a mile (by the way, Bodmin is 30 miles further )

 

Lets get this right,it aint about being Rich in the NL or any of the Leagues, its about being Smart, no-one knows this any more than the Buxton promoter, last year they spotted potential in Morris,Branford,Garrity and took a chance on them,added to some seasonally established NL riders, the result they won everything worth winning. If it was all about money Then The Heathens would win everything in the NL, but we dont,so its not. Yes it probably helps in attracting a certain type of rider, but at the end of the day its about spotting ability, talent, and nurturing this young talent. Buxton have proved over the years masters at this, but as they know its swings and roundabouts, to get a succesful Team year in year out is almost impossible due to the nature of the League, when the Team becomes succesful it means the riders improve so they move on up and have to be replaced, only for the cycle to begin over again. The only way occasionally to break this cycle is if you happen to drop on an exeedingly talented individual rider occasionally such as Cameron Heeps at Mildenhall.

 

 

Its absolutely true that money does not guarantee success, but it does make it more likely to happen. No sport will prove both points more than football.

 

Without knocking Buxton, they have had something of a monopoly over riders from the north-west (and beyond) for a number of seasons before 2011. With the possible exception of Scunthorpe (who tend to use their own assets), a rider based in Cumbria (like Craig Cook, for example) would have been travelling a very long way for NL speedway had he not gone to Hi Edge. Last season they all came together and, again without knocking Buxton, it was pretty clear that riders like Morris & Garrity were going to be pretty decent at third tier level.

 

The track is 'prepped' the same every week but the weather plays a huge part at Buxton. This years crowds aren't particularly down on last year but the sad fact is costs keep increasing but the crowd base doesn't increase in line with the costs. We have never had average crowds of 300 (even in 2010 when we won everything!!!), if we did we wouldn't have any worries

 

I am surprised you don't get that many, Jayne.

 

I do agree with bwdouble, though. I certainly know of two fans who refused to return after a simply dreadful (and I would go so far as to say dangerous) track against Mildenhall.

 

I might have done so myself had it not been the case that Barrie was there the following week and it was greatly (and that's an understatement) improved.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[TMW]

 

I am surprised you don't get that many, Jayne.

 

I do agree with bwdouble, though. I certainly know of two fans who refused to return after a simply dreadful (and I would go so far as to say dangerous) track against Mildenhall.

 

I might have done so myself had it not been the case that Barrie was there the following week and it was greatly (and that's an understatement) improved.

 

Not to forget that a lot of them work full time to pay and have to do a full days work and preapre bikes and ride.

 

Forgive me HT if I am missing the pojnt I keep hearing these phrases Dangerous riding....Dangerous riders......Dangerous tracks.

 

 

Is it not the fact that it is a Dangerous Sport and people are going to get hurt and this is particular to key ties where there is no such thing as 2nd place only winners and losers.