Arch Stanton Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Much better regardless of what Aljack says To be fair the question was previous seasonS, not last season. If you are talking about comparing this season on the whole compared to a window between August and October last year then the crowds this season are favourable. However, and this is my opinion based on how I saw the attendances, the Elite league crowds prior to August last year held up superbly despite the team being both shockingly bad and mind-numbingly boring to watch. When it became a mathematical certainty that the only position Ipswich could finish would be bottom (It looked that way from March!!), The crowd disappeared totally leaving only a few hundred on the terraces during the closing months of the season. Indeed, far worse than anything seen this year. But for such an entertaining team this year who managed a creditable third in the league, winning the majority of home matches handsomely, the crowd levels it has to be said have been disappointing. Chris Louis himself mentioned on radio Suffolk a few weeks ago, that one of the few disappointments of this year was the way the crowds dipped after it was known that Ipswich couldn't win the title. Edited November 6, 2011 by Catch22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Just out of interest, what were the crowds like in 2011 compared to previous seasons in the Elite league? Whilst Aljack is more than entitled to his opinion, sadly he doesn't always let the facts get in the way of his argument / agenda!!!!! The facts are that more people came through the Foxhall turnstiles than for any of the past three NsEL seasons. With the lower running costs associated with the PL, the decision to move to the PL has undoubtably been a financial success. With a team that the fans could actually relate to, achieving a decent league position, and picking up some silverware, smiles were back on the Foxhall faithful for the first time in a long while. I agree that there were some relatively disappointing attendances at some meetings, but nothing as bad as some of those in the moribund NsEL of previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The facts are that more people came through the Foxhall turnstiles than for any of the past three NsEL seasons I'm not having that one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I'm not having that one!! It's a fact....but you are entitled to your scepticism!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 To be fair the question was previous seasonS, not last season. If you are talking about comparing this season on the whole compared to a window between August and October last year then the crowds this season are favourable. However, and this is my opinion based on how I saw the attendances, the Elite league crowds prior to August last year held up superbly despite the team being both shockingly bad and mind-numbingly boring to watch. When it became a mathematical certainty that the only position Ipswich could finish would be bottom (It looked that way from March!!), The crowd disappeared totally leaving only a few hundred on the terraces during the closing months of the season. Indeed, far worse than anything seen this year. But for such an entertaining team this year who managed a creditable third in the league, winning the majority of home matches handsomely, the crowd levels it has to be said have been disappointing. Chris Louis himself mentioned on radio Suffolk a few weeks ago, that one of the few disappointments of this year was the way the crowds dipped after it was know that Ipswich couldn't win the title. Indeed CL did say that, and it is true, but I bet the crowds didn't get below 1000. How can you give one of the reasons for lower crowds the fact of seeing some teams twice, when the very existance in the EL has you meeting ALL teams twice, and some 3 or even 4 times depending on Craven Shield, KO cup and the odd season opener (I know that wasn't you!!btw) Previous seasons in the EL have been seeing lower and lower crowds though haven't they, I know I used last year for the example and that was particularly dire, but the EL got so that we had so few meetings and so many gaps, people just got fed up with the stop start culture that is EL speedway that they walked away. So what do we deduce from this i) fans only want to see a winning team? ii) the very wet summer mean't no racing in the summer holidays cutting the attendance down quite a lot? iii) fans only want EL speedway? Not too sure tbh, what I do know is that I enjoyed the season immensely TBH, (barring the bad injuries I hasten to add) we've been there or thereabouts all season and the icing on the cake the 4's trophy. Now another season in the PL and the EL snobs( ) still won't attend whomever is in the team, but for me another year like this last one (ex injuries of course)is fine, just need to get a bit of consistancy from 1-7 like we had latterly this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It's a fact Of course it isn't. You've been boasting the "fact" that more people have been going through the turnstiles this season compared to last, but now you've decided to up the ante and declare that more people have gone through the turnstiles this season than any of the last THREE Elite league seasons. With the lower running costs of PL, i'm quite willing to go with the suggestion that the club have had a better financial year this year than the last three EL seasons, but more people through the gate? Behave!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Indeed CL did say that, and it is true, but I bet the crowds didn't get below 1000 Do you seriously believe that? I wouldn't let the fact that Mike Bacon estimates the Foxhall crowd figures to be 1,100 EVERY SINGLE WEEK in the local rag fool you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequered Flag Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The crowd has not been below 1000 with the exeption of wet meetings from my observations comparing it to previous crowds. Remember foxhall is a large 10000 capacity stadium and people spread them selves around the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalSin Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) There has been numerous times this season when the crowd has looked below 1000 and not weather affected meetings either I've enjoyed this season but i'll be honest, not including the end of last year when quite rightly the fans had had enough after an embarrassing season, the crowds this year have generally been worse than what i was used to seeing in the EL. I do though understand the clubs reasons for dropping down and fully support them. Edited November 6, 2011 by CardinalSin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thank you for you critique of my earlier piece, although the absence of any comment to substantiate your remarks is a little disappointing.. However coming from someone who at the start of the season struggled to understand the meaning of the word reactionary, should anyone really be surprised?????!!!!!!!!!! More rubbish but thanks for your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekycobra Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 More rubbish but thanks for your reply. Got here as you do reading up on other supporters teams and views and heres Tsunami been Mr Smug again. Nothing changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Got here as you do reading up on other supporters teams and views and heres Tsunami been Mr Smug again. Nothing changes No, that's Mr Snackette. I'm more Mr Happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Thank you for you critique of my earlier piece, although the absence of any comment to substantiate your remarks is a little disappointing.. However coming from someone who at the start of the season struggled to understand the meaning of the word reactionary, should anyone really be surprised?????!!!!!!!!!! Think what Tsunami is saying is your talking rubbish let me clarify for the avoidance of confusion Nick is a Glasgow Assett therfore when Nick & his Father decide which club best suits him next season wether that is Ipswich or somewhere else the Club in question will either have to pay to Glasgow A. A loan fee if he is on Loan (which i doubt will happen as i personally think Nick will be sold on a full contract to an Elite Club) Or B. A transfer fee on a full transfer and not Zilch as you so quaintly put it the Final green sheets are still to be published but Nick shall be around the 7 point mark for 2012 Not having a pop but irrespective who Nick sign's for negotiations on wether it is a loan deal or full transfer shall be done by Nick his father the club wishing to sign Nick & GLASGOW And as DW points out a full transfer will i suspect be what Glasgow will insist on and he ain't going to be cheap as Darcy Ward wasn't for Poole when King's Lynn SOLD HIM now im not saying Nick was/is as Good at this stage of his development as Darcy was but to suggest someone shall get him and Glasgow shall recieve Zilch is shall we say RUBBISH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeyin Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Think what Tsunami is saying is your talking rubbish let me clarify for the avoidance of confusion Nick is a Glasgow Assett therfore when Nick & his Father decide which club best suits him next season wether that is Ipswich or somewhere else the Club in question will either have to pay to Glasgow A. A loan fee if he is on Loan (which i doubt will happen as i personally think Nick will be sold on a full contract to an Elite Club) Or B. A transfer fee on a full transfer and not Zilch as you so quaintly put it the Final green sheets are still to be published but Nick shall be around the 7 point mark for 2012 Not having a pop but irrespective who Nick sign's for negotiations on wether it is a loan deal or full transfer shall be done by Nick his father the club wishing to sign Nick & GLASGOW And as DW points out a full transfer will i suspect be what Glasgow will insist on and he ain't going to be cheap as Darcy Ward wasn't for Poole when King's Lynn SOLD HIM now im not saying Nick was/is as Good at this stage of his development as Darcy was but to suggest someone shall get him and Glasgow shall recieve Zilch is shall we say RUBBISH WELL SAID !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Whilst he may be on the Glasgow Retained List, as I assume that Morris hasn't signed a 2012 Contract he is a free agent and can sign for whichever promotion he chooses. I'm afraid Glasgow are entitled to zilch, but as members of the club, I'm sure that an accommodation will be reached, so as "not to rock the boat". However I have to say that it is a massive assumption that Morris wil ride at Foxhall next season, and with a 2011 CMA of 7.19, it's not necessarily the bargain essential signing that others might think. This is particularly true, if the boy, as has been reported, plans to ride regularly in Polska. With the number of weekend fixtures in the PL, I think it's a difficult proposition for a rider to double up in the Poliski and Premeir Leagues. I think a lot of your asumptions are incorrect IMO (being polite) Edited November 7, 2011 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I can see Mr. S's point, assets should count for nothing yet no doubt the usual ways will carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Think what Tsunami is saying is your talking rubbish let me clarify for the avoidance of confusion Nick is a Glasgow Assett therfore when Nick & his Father decide which club best suits him next season wether that is Ipswich or somewhere else the Club in question will either have to pay to Glasgow A. A loan fee if he is on Loan (which i doubt will happen as i personally think Nick will be sold on a full contract to an Elite Club) Or B. A transfer fee on a full transfer and not Zilch as you so quaintly put it the Final green sheets are still to be published but Nick shall be around the 7 point mark for 2012 Not having a pop but irrespective who Nick sign's for negotiations on wether it is a loan deal or full transfer shall be done by Nick his father the club wishing to sign Nick & GLASGOW And as DW points out a full transfer will i suspect be what Glasgow will insist on and he ain't going to be cheap as Darcy Ward wasn't for Poole when King's Lynn SOLD HIM now im not saying Nick was/is as Good at this stage of his development as Darcy was but to suggest someone shall get him and Glasgow shall recieve Zilch is shall we say RUBBISH Clearly you have no been following the debate on other threads. To help you I append some apposite comments. I AM no legal expert either but my understanding post-Bosman is that once a rider (or anyone for that matter) is out of contract he is at liberty to seek employment elsewhere, and not just between one EU country and another. Most (if not all) rider contracts in the UK end on October 31st so from that moment riders must surely be considered free agents and not an asset of any club. I have asked this question to many promoters (past and present) over the years and have always been told that none want to rock the boat as their 'rider assets' are often the only tangible item other than a licence they possess as far as speedway is concerned. Absolutely correct. In the past I have looked after the financial affairs of a number of speedway promotions. When presented with a promotion's balance sheet, it is customary to find riders listed as assets. In common with most financial institutions, these are immediately stripped out and listed as intangibles. The view is that as these assets are unsupported no value can be assigned. This differs from football, in that footballers' contracts are seen as tangible, albeit the asset value amortised in line with the term left on the individual contract. We should move away from the use of the word asset as this is a complete misnomer. Far better, and more accurate, would a Promoter's Retained List. This has no legal significance, but helps the promoter keep the illusion that he actually owns something more than he does. A case in point was a few season's back when Swiderski decided he wanted to ride for Ipswich, despite the fact he was on Peterborough's Retained List. He duly signed, Peterborough huffed and puffed, and Ipswich paid a nominal loan fee so as "not to rock the boat". However the promoters knew that there was nothing they could do to prevent a rider riding for what ever Promotion he wanted, as that rider is in essence a free agent. You are absolutely right in so much as Morris and his advisers are free to find employment with what ever UK promotion they consider appropriate. Assuming that he hasn't signed a contract with another UK promoter for 2012 he is a free agent, and legally that is where the matter ends. Glasgow can huff and puff all they like, but legally they are entitled to ZILCH!!!!! If they tried to prevent Morris from riding for what ever UK promotion HE wanted to, they would face a class injunction which they would lose. Mind you it would never get that far. The Jolly Boys Club (the BSPA) would have a word with both promotions involved, and they will be instructed to reach an accommodation so as not to "rock the boat". A classic example is, as I have previously mentioned, was when Swiderski signed for Ipswich a few years back, which illustrates this point perfectly. At the end of the day who are you going to use as your point of reference? Tsunami, someone who on occasions has failed to grasp basic English, or Phil Rising, Managing Editor and Proprietor of the Speedway Star. The choice is yours, but I know who I would choose!!!!!! Edited November 7, 2011 by Mr Snackette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHayes Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Clearly you have no been following the debate on other threads. To help you I append some apposite comments. You are absolutely right in so much as Morris and his advisers are free to find employment with what ever UK promotion they consider appropriate. Assuming that he hasn't signed a contract with another UK promoter for 2012 he is a free agent, and legally that is where the matter ends. Glasgow can huff and puff all they like, but legally they are entitled to ZILCH!!!!! If they tried to prevent Morris from riding for what ever UK promotion HE wanted to, they would face a class injunction which they would lose. Mind you it would never get that far. The Jolly Boys Club (the BSPA) would have a word with both promotions involved, and they will be instructed to reach an accommodation so as not to "rock the boat". A classic example is, as I have previously mentioned, was when Swiderski signed for Ipswich a few years back, which illustrates this point perfectly. At the end of the day who are you going to use as your point of reference? Tsunami, someone who on occasions has failed to grasp basic English, or Phil Rising, Managing Editor and Proprietor of the Speedway Star. The choice is yours, but I know who I would choose!!!!!! So like when Coventry wanted to sign Nicholls and you wouldn't let him go unless they bought him, just when you entitled to zilch as well, or did you forget that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So like when Coventry wanted to sign Nicholls and you wouldn't let him go unless they bought him, just when you entitled to zilch as well, or did you forget that? Think the call it selective memory loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So like when Coventry wanted to sign Nicholls and you wouldn't let him go unless they bought him, just when you entitled to zilch as well, or did you forget that? Again another case in point. Ipswich wanted far more than what was actually paid. Nicholls had, quite rightly, threatened legal action if his move to Coventry wasn't sanctioned. As a result the BSPA knocked a few heads together in order that legal action was avoided. For reasons that have been mentioned earlier the BSPA had no wish for this to be dragged through the courts as it would have brought down the whole dodgy edifice!!!! So as I indicated an accommodation was reached, court case avoided, and the asset illusion is perpetuated!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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