Should There Be A British Rider In The 2012 Grand Prix Series?

[pandorum]

It's stupid to bang on about it should be the top 16 QUALIFIED riders.

How do you decide this?

In the old system at least 5 riders qualified without coming into contact with the top riders in the world by virtue of the Eastern European rounds.

Throwing it open to everybody would be a nightmare.

There are hardly enough days to decide the EL and PL without there being a series of qualifiers for a GP series most riders would not be ready for anyhow.

The SGP is a business run to turn a profit and as such a decision is made who the wildcards go to on the strength of entertainment value.

They basically do a decent job of it and most of the line ups are quality riders.

Some silly qualifying system would likely exclude good riders and favour riders who are not even ready for the GP let alone good enough for it.

As well as disrupt the leaugue systems.

Living in the good old days is stupid and pointless.

Fairness never had anything to do with it before and does not now.

It was all about appeasing federations then and it is now replacing the 'federations' with 'TV companies'.

The useless East European riders have been replaced with useless UK riders and they should not be allowed a free ride like in the good old days.

Qualification is a lottery whereas desererving a place can at least be based on good common sense.

The system works quite well...leave it be.

[ImpartialOne]

It's stupid to bang on about it should be the top 16 QUALIFIED riders.

How do you decide this?

In the old system at least 5 riders qualified without coming into contact with the top riders in the world by virtue of the Eastern European rounds.

Throwing it open to everybody would be a nightmare.

There are hardly enough days to decide the EL and PL without there being a series of qualifiers for a GP series most riders would not be ready for anyhow.

The SGP is a business run to turn a profit and as such a decision is made who the wildcards go to on the strength of entertainment value.

They basically do a decent job of it and most of the line ups are quality riders.

Some silly qualifying system would likely exclude good riders and favour riders who are not even ready for the GP let alone good enough for it.

As well as disrupt the leaugue systems.

Living in the good old days is stupid and pointless.

Fairness never had anything to do with it before and does not now.

It was all about appeasing federations then and it is now replacing the 'federations' with 'TV companies'.

The useless East European riders have been replaced with useless UK riders and they should not be allowed a free ride like in the good old days.

Qualification is a lottery whereas desererving a place can at least be based on good common sense.

 

The system works quite well...leave it be.

Well said.

[celticboy]

Yes, there definitely SHOULD be a British Rider in the GP series, providing he or she is there on merit.

 

I'd do away with the popularity contest that the wild card selection is, and base it on the preceding season's performance.

 

Perhaps a "seeding" approach would be best. the top 8 in the championship this year would be seeded 1-8. The Under 21 Champ would be seeded 9 (unless he is already in the top 8, then the 2nd placed in that championship would be seeded 9). Then the next 6 would be seeded based on their finishing international average for the season. The final wild card place for each GP should be doled as 1 appearance per country, and for countries that have multiple GPS (poland etc), then the appearance would be by the highest averaging rider for that country. This would give aussies & americans a chance. The host countr can decide which event their home rider will appear at.

[T.N.T.]

Bomber qualified for this series through his results from the 2010 series, so any past nominations should be forgotten about really.

 

 

This season he hasn't really troubled the big guns and should only get a nomination for 2012 if there is not a better rider from any country not included in the series. With riders like Pedersen and Lindgren looking possible non qualifiers, I would say they should get picked before him.

 

 

With Lindback, Bjarne and Pepe already assured of a place and it being odds on that Darcy Ward will be given a place, then I would say the top TEN will be back along with these four, leaving just ONE place available !!

 

 

1 #5 Greg Hancock 117

2 #2 Jaroslaw Hampel 100

3 #9 Andreas Jonsson 92

4 #1 Tomasz Gollob 88

5 #3 Jason Crump 79

6 #12 Emil Sayfutdinov 79

7 #8 Chris Holder 77

8 #7 Kenneth Bjerre 72

9 #10 Nicki Pedersen 65

10 #11 Fredrik Lindgren 60

11 #14 Antonio Lindback 60

12 #6 Chris Harris 43

13 #4 Rune Holta 41

14 #15 Janusz Kolodziej 39

 

 

With Bomber, Holta, Kolodiej and Laguta being so far behind, these are the four places I would think are up for grabs.

 

So the current top 11, Pepe replacing Kolodiej and Bjarne replacing Holta, Bombers place has to be at risk especially if Holta or Kolodiej get above him in the standings.

 

 

As much as I like Tai Woffinden and Scott Nicholls, I cant see either doing anymore that Bomber has been doing so the question is ...... Is there a better rider other than those listed better than Bomber ?

 

 

Zagar ? ...... Questionable

 

Andersen ? ...... Debatable due to injuries in recent times

[Bomo1]

Interesting article in today's Sun newspaper, suggesting that Bomber's GP bikes may have been 'tampered with' sometime between official track practice and the actual Grand Prix in Torun.

 

Bomber is not confirming the suggestion other than saying "the bikes were very fast in practice, but when we came back they were very slow!!!"

 

I know there has been some 'goings on, with Bomber's back room team, but can we suspect sabotage?????

[RonButler]

Are there currently any British riders who deserve a wild card on merit alone?

 

If not, should a rider be included simply because he is British as Great Britain is considered to be one of the major speedway nations even if current form doesn't necessarily back that up?

 

Obviously I'm assuming that Bomber doesn't make the top 8.

 

I'm totally against 'wild cards'. Riders of any nationality should complete on merit alone. I interpret merit as having scored sufficient actual points.

 

This should be irrespective of nationality. Riders should be judged on their scores only. Letting them in by the back door only reduces the nature of the competition.

 

Incidentally, Jellyman, thank you for using the term Great Britain. To me it has greater depth than 'Brits' or UK.

 

Regards,

 

Rod.

[ballinger]

My apologies if this has already been suggested, but BSI should, in my opinion, reduce the number of picks from 4 to 3, and have the fourth spot as an extra wild card, so that an in form rider could take that position on a GP by GP basis. There would remain a local wild card as #16. Therefore from a British perspective, GB could have 2 representatives at Cardiff.

[arnieg]

Bomber qualified for this series through his results from the 2010 series, so any past nominations should be forgotten about really.

 

 

This season he hasn't really troubled the big guns and should only get a nomination for 2012 if there is not a better rider from any country not included in the series. With riders like Pedersen and Lindgren looking possible non qualifiers, I would say they should get picked before him.

 

 

With Lindback, Bjarne and Pepe already assured of a place and it being odds on that Darcy Ward will be given a place, then I would say the top TEN will be back along with these four, leaving just ONE place available !!

 

 

1 #5 Greg Hancock 117

2 #2 Jaroslaw Hampel 100

3 #9 Andreas Jonsson 92

4 #1 Tomasz Gollob 88

5 #3 Jason Crump 79

6 #12 Emil Sayfutdinov 79

7 #8 Chris Holder 77

8 #7 Kenneth Bjerre 72

9 #10 Nicki Pedersen 65

10 #11 Fredrik Lindgren 60

11 #14 Antonio Lindback 60

12 #6 Chris Harris 43

13 #4 Rune Holta 41

14 #15 Janusz Kolodziej 39

 

 

With Bomber, Holta, Kolodiej and Laguta being so far behind, these are the four places I would think are up for grabs.

 

So the current top 11, Pepe replacing Kolodiej and Bjarne replacing Holta, Bombers place has to be at risk especially if Holta or Kolodiej get above him in the standings.

 

 

As much as I like Tai Woffinden and Scott Nicholls, I cant see either doing anymore that Bomber has been doing so the question is ...... Is there a better rider other than those listed better than Bomber ?

 

 

Zagar ? ...... Questionable

 

Andersen ? ...... Debatable due to injuries in recent times

Grigori Laguta is the highest ranked non-GP rider in the Swedish Elitiserien averages and second highest (to Ryan Sullivan) in the Polish Extraleague.

 

The obvious picks for next year would appear to be (the riders currently 9th and 10th in the GP standings (currently Lindgren and Nikki Pedersen) plus Grigory Laguta and Darcy Ward (whose international performances, as well as his Swedish and British league averages justify selection)

[maneacat]

Maybe if people went to see Speedway rather than staying away for a decade it'd be in a better state.

 

Incidentally, last time I looked, Kyle Newman was a British rider who represented the Pirates, but we mustn't stand in the way of yet another gratuitous pop at Poole, eh?

 

 

Ditto - Richard Lawson who rides for the Panthers

[21st century heathen]

To answer tbe original question - n o, not if Bomber doesn't qualify. Although Scotty id British Chanpion there is nobosy truly worthy of the full season wild card at the moment. I take no pleasure in saying it, but that's just the way it is ansd we shouldn't shy from admitting it.

[The White Knight]

Ok then, who are the best 16 riders in the World and who has missed out this year?

 

Who is this "speedway" you keep going on about?

 

Your rant is ludicrous.

 

 

Thank you for your kind words. I don't think you are right however.....................

[alan_boon]

Yes. Without a doubt. If they prepared the tracks properly then Harris wouldn't be trailing near the bottom, anyway. As it is, I'd still insist on one - if nothing else, it gives fans of clubs with no GP riders someone to cheer for.

[The White Knight]

Yes. Without a doubt. If they prepared the tracks properly then Harris wouldn't be trailing near the bottom, anyway. As it is, I'd still insist on one - if nothing else, it gives fans of clubs with no GP riders someone to cheer for.

 

Alan - I don't think British Speedway is in a position to insist on anything.

 

The Grand Prix Series is now out of the hands of BSPA and other Motor Federations - it is SOLELY in the hands of BSI/IMG. They can appoint Riders, dish out Wild Cards, get their Track Consultant to produce slick Tracks, decide where the Races take place and rake in all the PROFITS. It seems to me that the BSPA and others just have to hold out their hands and take what is given them.

 

When I said Speedway had sold it's soul - I meant it.

[nbaynes]

Alan - I don't think British Speedway is in a position to insist on anything.

 

The Grand Prix Series is now out of the hands of BSPA and other Motor Federations - it is SOLELY in the hands of BSI/IMG. They can appoint Riders, dish out Wild Cards, get their Track Consultant to produce slick Tracks, decide where the Races take place and rake in all the PROFITS. It seems to me that the BSPA and others just have to hold out their hands and take what is given them.

 

When I said Speedway had sold it's soul - I meant it.

And thank god for that, a professional organisation running the GPs

[michaelcroucher]

i think its quite hard to say. I dont think Harris should be picked. He is a good rider but i think his time is up. I would like to see Lee Richardson and another UK rider but not Woffy.

[ImpartialOne]

Alan - I don't think British Speedway is in a position to insist on anything.

 

The Grand Prix Series is now out of the hands of BSPA and other Motor Federations - it is SOLELY in the hands of BSI/IMG. They can appoint Riders, dish out Wild Cards, get their Track Consultant to produce slick Tracks, decide where the Races take place and rake in all the PROFITS. It seems to me that the BSPA and others just have to hold out their hands and take what is given them.

 

When I said Speedway had sold it's soul - I meant it.

I think you're being over dramatic with this.

 

The Grand Prix series is the best thing to happen to speedway for as long as I can remember. 15 world class riders giving nothing away in some of the best stadia we have witnessed and a professional outfit steering it in the direction, attracting some big name sponsors.

 

Admittedly the tracks aren't always up to expectation but if they could get that right there is no better spectacle.

 

I know you are a stickler for tradition and the good old days; so am I in many respects, but you only have to watch world finals from 1987, 1989, 1991, 1992, etc to see things weren't always perfect and no longer do we have to endure the five Continental Final qualifiers who by and large were a waste of space. There will always be weak links in any competition as they can't all be in the top eight, but riders in the bottom half like Harris, Holta, Kolodziej, Pedersen, Lindback and Lindgren have all been competitive at some stage and are hardly making up the numbers like the Continental Finalists usually did. Only Laguta could be classed as a wasted place, for want of a better phrase.

 

To me, the SGP is a great advert for the sport (track preparation apart) and along with the SWC, puts domestic speedway in this country to shame.

 

Times change, things move on, it's called progress. You have to move with the times or get left behind.

 

The mayor of Las Vegas once said, "Everything moves forward. If you stand still you go backwards."

 

IMG have the foresight to keep moving forwards and improve things every year. Its not about selling your soul, more staying on your toes. Promoters here could learn a lot from that.

[The White Knight]

I think you're being over dramatic with this.

 

The Grand Prix series is the best thing to happen to speedway for as long as I can remember. 15 world class riders giving nothing away in some of the best stadia we have witnessed and a professional outfit steering it in the direction, attracting some big name sponsors.

 

Admittedly the tracks aren't always up to expectation but if they could get that right there is no better spectacle.

 

I know you are a stickler for tradition and the good old days; so am I in many respects, but you only have to watch world finals from 1987, 1989, 1991, 1992, etc to see things weren't always perfect and no longer do we have to endure the five Continental Final qualifiers who by and large were a waste of space. There will always be weak links in any competition as they can't all be in the top eight, but riders in the bottom half like Harris, Holta, Kolodziej, Pedersen, Lindback and Lindgren have all been competitive at some stage and are hardly making up the numbers like the Continental Finalists usually did. Only Laguta could be classed as a wasted place, for want of a better phrase.

 

To me, the SGP is a great advert for the sport (track preparation apart) and along with the SWC, puts domestic speedway in this country to shame.

 

Times change, things move on, it's called progress. You have to move with the times or get left behind.

 

The mayor of Las Vegas once said, "Everything moves forward. If you stand still you go backwards."

 

IMG have the foresight to keep moving forwards and improve things every year. Its not about selling your soul, more staying on your toes. Promoters here could learn a lot from that.

 

Excellent reasoned reply IO.

 

I suppose I am one of those folk who believe that Traditions are important. I was brought up that way.

 

However change is OK as long as it is for the good of the Sport. I don't feel that the BSI/IMG deal is good for Speedway though. As you say, perhaps I am living in the Past.

 

I do HONESTLY believe that Speedway in the Sixties and Seventies was a far superior product than it is today. For me, anyway, it meant more excitement, racejackets that meant something and not advertisements quite as prevelent on the Leathers as they are on the Kevlars today. The days when you could look at a Bike and know who rode it purely by the distinctive set ups are now gone. Nowadays they are all the same apart from the colours.

 

Perhaps I am an old 'fuddy duddy', a reincarnation of Victor Meldrew, but I know what excites me at the Speedway. The Sport is STILL basically good - only - not as good as it used to be. That IS my opinion, I'm afraid, and I can't change that.

 

To Quote:

 

L.P. Hartley - from his book: The Go-Between.

 

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there".

 

Perhaps I belong there too.

Edited September 6, 2011 by The White Knight

[bruno]

was it better or is it a case of rose tinted glasses i also thought speedway was better back in the day until i get some old tapes out and realise maybe it wasnt.with the introduction of the air fences i reckon riders take bigger risks these days maybe resulting in better races

[mickthemuppet]

Speedway has been sold down the Swannee by IMG. Is there another sport that has a live three hour TV programme in which the winner receives under £7,000 and some of the riders do not even get paid £1.000

Compare this to so called sports like Snooker and Darts the prize money is ludicious. It would be great if all the riders refused to ride in the GP,s until they got a better deal

[Woz01]

IF there was to be a brit for next year it will have to be Lee Richardson or Tai Woffinden. Im a big fan of Harris but i think a bit of time out of the GP'S will do him good and he can try to qualify for 2013.