Kennett Suspended!

[Steve Shovlar]

On what basis? - the situation is that Ed is guilty of using the illegal silencer at ONE meeting - so the result of that should be amended, and indeed has been. There are no reasonable grounds for altering any other results though.

Do you honestly believe Kennett only used the silencer once, at Lakeside?

 

All clubs and all fans, and I include the majoity of Coventry fans, want to see fair play and no advantage through cheating. The Coventry promotion are on record stating they believe in fair play so I would guess be ok with seeing Kennetts points for the season being expurged from the record books. It would prove that Coventry were clean and if they won the league it would be a clean win instead of what would currently stink the house out due to Kennetts silencer. Who can argue against that?

[Robyn1972]

Do you honestly believe Kennett only used the silencer once, at Lakeside?

 

All clubs and all fans, and I include the majoity of Coventry fans, want to see fair play and no advantage through cheating. The Coventry promotion are on record stating they believe in fair play so I would guess be ok with seeing Kennetts points for the season being expurged from the record books. It would prove that Coventry were clean and if they won the league it would be a clean win instead of what would currently stink the house out due to Kennetts silencer. Who can argue against that?

 

I have precisely the same amount of evidence to the contrary as you do - absolutely NONE.

 

Of course we all want to see fair play - but "fair play" does not include removing a riders points from the record when there is no evidence of any wrongdoing, in my book?!

[home straight]

Do you honestly believe Kennett only used the silencer once, at Lakeside?

 

All clubs and all fans, and I include the majoity of Coventry fans, want to see fair play and no advantage through cheating. The Coventry promotion are on record stating they believe in fair play so I would guess be ok with seeing Kennetts points for the season being expurged from the record books. It would prove that Coventry were clean and if they won the league it would be a clean win instead of what would currently stink the house out due to Kennetts silencer. Who can argue against that?

 

Steve, you can't just go and expunge all of Eddie's points from this year based on the fact he might have been on illegal machinery. There is only evidence for him being on illegal machinery in one meeting, so any adjustments can only be made for the one meeting where he has been proved to have cheated.

 

It doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else may suspect about other meetings he's ridden in, without concrete evidence you simply can't just start arbitrarily changing results.

Edited August 11, 2011 by home straight

[Daniel Smith]

Do you honestly believe Kennett only used the silencer once, at Lakeside?

 

All clubs and all fans, and I include the majoity of Coventry fans, want to see fair play and no advantage through cheating. The Coventry promotion are on record stating they believe in fair play so I would guess be ok with seeing Kennetts points for the season being expurged from the record books. It would prove that Coventry were clean and if they won the league it would be a clean win instead of what would currently stink the house out due to Kennetts silencer. Who can argue against that?

 

Now you're being stupid.

 

At the start of the season all riders would have used un-tampered units through fear of being check as it was a new regulation. If Kennett has been cheating for longer than the Lakeside meeting I'd say it would have been no longer than a Month or 2, that's it.

[hatcham]

Not going into the rights or wrongs

BUT

 

One vital difference. A tired rider can be a danger to any other rider on the track.

A cheating rider is just a cheat.

A rider falsely claiming he is injured and receiving a guest facility as opposed to a 28 day ban is also of course a cheat.

[Steve Shovlar]

Now you're being stupid.

 

At the start of the season all riders would have used un-tampered units through fear of being check as it was a new regulation. If Kennett has been cheating for longer than the Lakeside meeting I'd say it would have been no longer than a Month or 2, that's it.

 

 

It was mentioned that he changed to King a while back. Perhaps results should bechanged from that date?

 

If nothing is done Coventry could rompthe league, which is likely anyway, but to most fans it would be a poor hampionship side because of this.

[Matt Davis]

Steve, you can't just go and expunge all of Eddie's points from this year based on the fact he might have been on illegal machinery. There is only evidence for him being on illegal machinery in one meeting, so any adjustments can only be made for the one meeting where he has been proved to have cheated.

 

It doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else may suspect about other meetings he's ridden in, without concrete evidence you simply can't just start arbitrarily changing results.

:approve:

 

Well said!

[Sprog1]

The presumption of innocence remains intact for all other meetings unless it can be proved otherwise. Edward does not have to prove he was innoccent in any other meeting than the one his silencer was deemed to be illegal in.

 

 

 

Where does it say in the SCB Regulations that there is a presumption of innocence when a rider attends a disciplinary hearing?

 

As far as I can tell the disciplinary hearing is not adversarial procedure and is not subject to the test of proof beyond all reasonable doubt, nor even proof on the balance of probabilities so it appears the tribunal are entitled to draw conclusions about certain matters, that are not necessarily supported by solid evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCB]

As it is, I'm informed that while Eds silencer had been modified, it had been modified in such a way he didn't gain anything from it. So yes, he should be banned and fined for attempting to cheat but if there was no gain there's no need to remove points.

 

Obviously, if what I'm told is rubbish and someone can prove when he started cheating, points should be removed.

[DunRobin]

It was mentioned that he changed to King a while back. Perhaps results should bechanged from that date?

 

If nothing is done Coventry could rompthe league, which is likely anyway, but to most fans it would be a poor hampionship side because of this.

What the same as would appertain to Leon Madsen,you mean, when he was caught with an illegal silencer on his bike last season. No one knows for certain whether that was the only time he tried to use an illegal silencer either. For goodness sake, get off your anti-Coventry stance & get real. You lost the play-offs, get over it. He was caught & the only time it can be proved that he used an illegal silencer was at Lakeside for which both him & Coventry have been punished.

[houdi]

I am not sure why people keep banging on about Madsen as if it was the same situation. Last year, it was only certain FIM events (GP qualifier and under 21s?) that riders had to use the new silencers at. Not any GPs, World Cup nor any leagues.

Madsen was caught and the FIM jury decided on the punishment. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the punishment won't change that decision.

He was free to continue to ride wherever he wanted after that. Though, after the play-offs, maybe Poole wish he HAD been banned

Madsen and or his team were found guilty of modifying/tampering with his silencer,so was Eddie,seems pretty similar to me.What event it took place in is pretty irrelevant,it is the rider who cheated and it is the rider who should be punished.Unless of course you are suggesting that if Eddie had been found guilty of using a dodgy silencer in the British Final,he should only be banned maybe from future National Championships.

[SCB]

Where does it say in the SCB Regulations that there is a presumption of innocence when a rider attends a disciplinary hearing?

 

As far as I can tell the disciplinary hearing is not adversarial procedure and is not subject to the test of proof beyond all reasonable doubt, nor even proof on the balance of probabilities so it appears the tribunal are entitled to draw conclusions about certain matters, that are not necessarily supported by solid evidence.

So the SCB say, "Ed, you've been cheating since the day you started riding. You're banned forever unless you can prove that claim is false" you don't think it would end up in court?

 

In the UK it's innocent until proven guilty, if the SCB. go against that they'll be on hot water. You cannot ignore the laws of the land.

[speedwayondisc]

The Tribunal has yet to held. The actual facts have yet to be determined independently.

 

One, would assume from his public statements, that he is to plead guilty and offer mitigating circumstances.

 

At the moment the only facts that we can be sure of are those that have already been admitted by Mr Kennett. His statement makes it clear that he admits to the offence on one occasion and that he has ascertained the culprit and ended his employment. So I presume he will be able to offer much more detailed information to the tribunal when that is held.

 

He will, no doubt, be closely questioned as to the sequence of events that may have led to the tampering (as that is HIS OWN mitigation) and in doing so will - if he is to offer full disclosure - be in a position to enlighten the tribunal WHEN it may have taken place. For instance, this mechanic had unfettered access to the silencer on X or Y date.

 

It may be entirely possible from the facts presented by Mr Kennett in an attempt to reduce his punishment just for how long the tampering had been in effect and just who else may have been in the know.

 

That COULD certainly lead to the result of other matches having their results amended accordingly, could it not?

 

Anyone who was faced with the prospect of two year ban would be well advised to make a totally clean breast of matters at the hearing and hope for as much leniancy as possible.

Edited August 11, 2011 by speedwayondisc

[Sprog1]

 

 

At the start of the season all riders would have used un-tampered units through fear of being check as it was a new regulation. If Kennett has been cheating for longer than the Lakeside meeting I'd say it would have been no longer than a Month or 2, that's it.

 

I don't think that's necessarily the case. The normal test machine examiners carry out is to put a rod in the silencer to check that the baffle is where it should be. That does does not show whether the baffles have been drilled out. A drilled out baffle is very difficult to detect in the time the machine examiner has available ( bearing in mind he has to check 28 bikes).

 

Even if an illegal exhaust is suspected a promoter is going to be very reluctant to fork out the £550 protest fee unless he is very sure otherwise he loses his money. No doubt thats why Belle Vue didn't protest at the time.Coventry were there. If there is no protest there will be no check, so until now a rider with a drilled out exhaust had a very high chance of getting away with it. So it is more than possible that Ed's silencer was drilled out from day one. I am not saying it was drilled out then but the possibilty is there.

 

The difference now is that the the mechanics will have to physically remove the silencer from the bike for checking and that makes tampering much easier to detect, as I understand the situation.

 

 

 

[Steve Shovlar]

What the same as would appertain to Leon Madsen,you mean, when he was caught with an illegal silencer on his bike last season. No one knows for certain whether that was the only time he tried to use an illegal silencer either.

The silencers were not used in the EL last season.

[SCB]

The silencers were not used in the EL last season.

If he cheats with a dodgy silencer in Denmark why not have a dodgy carburettor or a different dodgy silencer in the UK? If you're going to cheat you'd be willing to do it any way you thought you could get away with it!

[DunRobin]

The silencers were not used in the EL last season.

We all know that, we are not as stupid as you seem to think we are but last season when people were saying that Madsen should be suspended for the season as he had tried to cheat, you were defending him! Your problem is that you think everbody else cheats & whatever Poole resorts to is OK! Ever since the play-off defeats, you never miss a chance to have a dig at Coventry. What I am saying is try to be more impartial with your observations & stop trying to wind up other posters for the sake of it.

Edited August 11, 2011 by DunRobin

[Steve Shovlar]

Ever since the play-off defeats, you never miss a chance to have a dig at Coventry. What I am saying is try to be more impartial with your observations & stop trying to wind up other posters for the sake of it.

Where am I having a dig at Coventry? This is about fair play for all with no team being advantaged.Same for every club.

[Sprog1]

So the SCB say, "Ed, you've been cheating since the day you started riding. You're banned forever unless you can prove that claim is false" you don't think it would end up in court?

 

In the UK it's innocent until proven guilty, if the SCB. go against that they'll be on hot water. You cannot ignore the laws of the land.

 

Its not the law of the land entirely. There are exceptions. There are plenty of situations where strict liability applies, such as the defective equipment act and in certain circumstances in industrial tribunals rebuttable presumptions may be made once a prima face case has been established. The point is that this is not an adversarial hearing (I presume you know what that means )

 

There is also, as I said , the question of standard of proof to consider. In a criminal trial the case has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt but generally speaking the lower the tribunal the lower the standard of proof required. This tribunal will be conducted, as I understand the position, according to the sporting code of the FIM.

 

But certainly there is no law in this country that says the SCB have to prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt, so once again you are wrong.

 

 

Realistically though the tribunal are most likely to judge it purely and simply on the Lakeside meeting.

 

 

[semion]

The way Coventry are building it up once again for the end of the season, and Poole starting to find problems. Noddy knackered again, Riders who were on form at the start of the season now struggling etc etc. Shovvy could well be repeating this again after this seasons play-offs. IF Poole choke it yet again, they will never live it down.