21st century heathen Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 What Dudley have done is exactly right for the club. However, you have not built a league winning team this season unlike Stoke who have. I also sense you have lost sight of the fact that this is the British National Development League. Like it or not its purpose is to develop riders for the Premier and Elite Leagues. How is not tracking the best possible team doing the right thing for the club? I've not been convinced by the team building strategy this season right from the off and I did suggest Stoke were a threat while most were looking at BV. Not at all. The Heathens have used lost of young Brits. Royno and Newman have ridden in all three leagues this season. Morris and Perry have had PL league meetings during their time with us. I don't see how that's relevant to wanting to win the NL though. -------------------------------- Portwood will join Armo and 'Fred' on the asset list too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Right, I would like to join in this discussion,It will be a hard ask for the Heathens to win anything else this season, 21st choice of Stoke,and my pick of Scunfield are obvious favourites, I will say here and now, Dudley have won all that they will win this season with the Team that they currently have, yes we have a very competitive team, but are short of Scunny & Stoke. There are two lines of thought here, YES the NL is a development League, but secondly there is the supporters to consider, who wants to pay hard earned money to see a Team out on Track which is NOT the strongest available ?? the Team should always be the strongest available at all times, and to suggest otherwise is bunkum, and shows a lack of respect to supporters, I dont want to travel away to see MY Team get a Ommering such as at Stoke or BV, and we havent been to Scunthorpe yet, when i know that i could be seeing someone else im MY Teams colours which would see US win or do better, That really is bad PR if any club makes a statement which infers we could have a stronger Team, but choose not to do so. Back to who i would have left out ?? out of Ash, Armo, Kyle or Royno, if i thought it would win us the League i would have left armo out, and also retained Danny Stoneman, If i thought we couldnt win the League, then i would do as Dudley have done. Edited July 29, 2011 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbymilkfloat Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Surely it was a case of 2 of Armstrong, Newman and Roynon. Who the hell would pick Armstrong ahead of the other 2? i for one wouldnt,my dudley team would be-1 newman,2 ritchings,3 perry,4 morris,5 roynon,6 franklin,7 a n other(i would have kept brendan johnson) i think that team would fit in under the team average guidelines and would be in with a chance of winning the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Roynon back in for Armstrong is the best thing they could of done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Comical from Pearson, "We could have kept Newman and bought back Roynon to replace someone else, but thats a win at all costs attitude" Whats the point of taking part then and the Dudley fans can't be happy that the promotion aren't bothered about winning. Perhaps now they know they aren't bothered about winning they won't bother turning up for the rest of the season. Pathetic attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shad176 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Comical from Pearson, "We could have kept Newman and bought back Roynon to replace someone else, but thats a win at all costs attitude" Whats the point of taking part then and the Dudley fans can't be happy that the promotion aren't bothered about winning. Perhaps now they know they aren't bothered about winning they won't bother turning up for the rest of the season. Pathetic attitude. we are not rye house fans...we are heathen fans and will follow our team through thick and thin...we,ve been called thugs..hooligans..a win at all costs club...and now a pathetic attitude club if you had been present at monmore on tuesday you would have seen a wonderfull nights entertainment from club with ambition...i dont know or care how long we are in the nl the racing has been goood but IF we manage to get our own place in the future we will go prem, one thing is certain though..since the dudley heathens joined the nl..it,s give you all something to moan about OMMER UM Edited July 29, 2011 by wembley81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Pathetic attitude. we are not rye house fans...we are heathen fans and will follow our team through thick and thin...we,ve been called thugs..hooligans..a win at all costs club...and now a pathetic attitude club if you had been present at monmore on tuesday you would have seen a wonderfull nights entertainment from club with ambition...i dont know or care how long we are in the nl the racing has been goood but IF we manage to get our own place in the future we will go prem, one thing is certain though..since the dudley heathens joined the nl..it,s give you all something to moan about OMMER UM I have been a Heathens fan or devotee since I was taken to Dudley wood in 1959! If there is a Heathens team win or loose I will go. Nigel & crew have done the Heathens history proud in the latest incarnation. Cubs, Heathens, United, Heathens, Club CH and now Dudley.............ALL WE NEED IS A HEATHENS TEAM AT ANY LEVEL IN SPEEDWAY! We are probably the 2nd or 3rd highest average gate supported Club in the UK so expect jealousy from others who wished they had what we have got and I know of more who would follow in a higher league.! Ask the promoters where they have visited, we have spent £'s by the ton by increasing their gates! Win, Loose, Draw, etc Nigel is damned, but not by a true Heathen, but by idiots from other tracks that are very obviously jealous of the history of a very proud club with supporters who are not rivalled anywhere in UK Speedway. Flame away to your heart's content folks but a true Speedway anorak knows this already! As the programme says "A Heathens Fan Since The summer of '59" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have been a Heathens fan or devotee since I was taken to Dudley wood in 1959! If there is a Heathens team win or loose I will go. Nigel & crew have done the Heathens history proud in the latest incarnation. Cubs, Heathens, United, Heathens, Club CH and now Dudley.............ALL WE NEED IS A HEATHENS TEAM AT ANY LEVEL IN SPEEDWAY! We are probably the 2nd or 3rd highest average gate supported Club in the UK so expect jealousy from others who wished they had what we have got and I know of more who would follow in a higher league.! Ask the promoters where they have visited, we have spent £'s by the ton by increasing their gates! Win, Loose, Draw, etc Nigel is damned, but not by a true Heathen, but by idiots from other tracks that are very obviously jealous of the history of a very proud club with supporters who are not rivalled anywhere in UK Speedway. Flame away to your heart's content folks but a true Speedway anorak knows this already! As the programme says "A Heathens Fan Since The summer of '59" I can't argue with that in the slightest. You beat me by 4 years (I started in'63)but I have exactly the same attitude and thats why we stand apart. True Cradley supporters know what its like to lose week after week - we had years of it!!!! But Cradley (and now Dudley) is still OUR team whether the council see fit to find us a home or not. It might not be the best solution using somebody elses track, but after the visits I have made to most of the other NL tracks this year, I defy anybody to show me a more professionally run outfit in the NL. 'Ommer 'Um Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 As a neutral observer in this debate,,what ever side Dudley..(cradley) Put out their input to the National League is vital to its success..They have something we can only dream of down south with the exception of probably Mildenhall..Loads of ultra keen fans..But fans are not always informed of the true reasons for management decisions..Be happy with what you have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's got nothing to do with fans of other clubs being jealous or whatever. It's just a case that some happen to agree with my view, and some don't. That's the point of a discussion forum. It's just a view of this particular issue not people having a dig at the club in general or us as fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) As far as the NL being a training ground for young riders - I agree partially, but to make it worthwhile for fans to part with their money, you just HAVE to make it a good competition. There is no place even in the NL for an unprofessional approach, and the supporters will always want a team to support who can do the best they can. Poor racing in NL + not giving the fans what they want = no NL. Dead right and its a point that some people forget or try to brush aside. Its all very well stating that the NL is a training ground (which to s significant degree it is) but the stand alone clubs in particular are still businesses that rely on gate and sponsorship income to make ends meet. That means they have to have a competitive, attractive team to pull in the punters. No punters, no NL. What you need is a balance between the development of young riders and the survival of teams and I think the NL have just about got it right. Surely it was a case of 2 of Armstrong, Newman and Roynon. Who the hell would pick Armstrong ahead of the other 2? That's not as nailed on as you think. According to the Dudley website,Armstrong's NL average is about .25 of a point below Newman's, he's the kind of experienced, knowledgable, unselfish senior rider that most NL clubs need, he's a club asset, he doesn't ride for other teams so he is always going to be available and there is the small matter of loyalty to the club captain and permanent team member. A decision to dump Armstrong and keep Newman in particular could well back fire in seasons to come and, forced to make the choice, I'd have kept Armstrong over either of them. Edited July 30, 2011 by Halifaxtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJ81 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 .....he's the kind of experienced, knowledgable, unselfish senior rider that most NL clubs need, he's a club asset, he doesn't ride for other teams so he is always going to be available and there is the small matter of loyalty to the club captain and permanent team member. This is what I was going to say, but it's a lot better put I think it is possible to underestimate the effect of removing the Club Captain and a vastly influential presence on the performance of the other, particularly less experienced members of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Totally agree that looking long term, we have done the right thing if it meant we could only have used 2 of these 3. AND, what people must take into consideration, was that Kyle said right from the beginning, and repeated several times over, that he would NOT take a team place once Adam was back. I suppose that's the kind of honourable bloke he is. Loved having him in Heathens colours this year. Hes a fantastic rider with a big future, and a genuinely "nice bloke". I am sure that our future results would have been better if we could have "jiggled things round", but remember also that this season has not got long to run - we should have one eye on next year. Talking of which, theres one rider in particular I'd be keeping an eye on for next year. With his current average he would be a real bargain. Have a look through the averages and see if you can find him!! 'Ommer 'Um Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 That's not as nailed on as you think. According to the Dudley website,Armstrong's NL average is about .25 of a point below Newman's, he's the kind of experienced, knowledgable, unselfish senior rider that most NL clubs need, he's a club asset, he doesn't ride for other teams so he is always going to be available and there is the small matter of loyalty to the club captain and permanent team member. Newmans average has nothing to do with it. Armstrong would have been replaced by Roynon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Newmans average has nothing to do with it. Armstrong would have been replaced by Roynon. That still means keeping Newman in and leaving Armstrong out - and there's scarcely any difference between the two in scoring. Its unlikely that either Newman (who is actually injured at the moment) or Roynon will be riding in the NL next season while Armstrong almost certainly will be. Aside from the reasons I have already given, I really don't understand why you would alienate one of your top men (and one of the top men in the NL) for the sake of at most 2 and a bit months speedway. Taking everything into account and accepting that you can only have two out of the three, its the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen79 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Just catching up so here goes: Jon and Ashley are now both Wolverhampton assets. As already pointed out, but not yet acknowledged by you, Jon is a Dudley asset. Likewise Tom Perry. Ashley is a Wolverhampton asset. Also note, Danny Stoneman was on loan, but has been replaced by Adam Portwood who will also become a Heathens asset if things work out. I also sense you have lost sight of the fact that this is the British National Development League. Like it or not its purpose is to develop riders for the Premier and Elite Leagues. The progress over the last two seasons of young Brits Ashley Morris, Tom Perry, Richard Franklin, Darryl Ritchings, plus Adam Roynon and Lee Smart would seem to make a mockery of your argument. The National League does develop riders for the higher leagues and Dudley have played a huge part in that already. It is also a competition in which every club competing would like to win. I will say here and now, Dudley have won all that they will win this season with the Team that they currently have... Better not mention now being National League Four Team Tournament Champions then! Comical from Pearson, "We could have kept Newman and bought back Roynon to replace someone else, but thats a win at all costs attitude" Whats the point of taking part then and the Dudley fans can't be happy that the promotion aren't bothered about winning. Perhaps now they know they aren't bothered about winning they won't bother turning up for the rest of the season. Pathetic attitude. I think the difference should be noted between wanting to win, which the club clearly do, and wanting to win at all costs. When releasing Luke Chessell as part of the move to bring in Kyle Newman, the club were criticised for the 'win at all costs' attitude. Now by bringing Roynon back in place of Newman instead of Armo or Ash, the club are criticised for not wanting to win or put out the strongest side. Damned if you do and damned if you don't! He's [Armstrong] the kind of experienced, knowledgable, unselfish senior rider that most NL clubs need, he's a club asset, he doesn't ride for other teams so he is always going to be available and there is the small matter of loyalty to the club captain and permanent team member. A decision to dump Armstrong and keep Newman in particular could well back fire in seasons to come and, forced to make the choice, I'd have kept Armstrong over either of them. And so to the point in question and I agree entirely with HalifaxTiger here. To be the clear the choice is as follows. Roynon is fit again, so Dudley can: a) not bring him back at all Replace Newman (as agreed in the first place between rider and club) c) Replace Ashley Morris d) Replace Jon Armstrong I am amazed by the opinion that we should do anything here other than bring Roynon back in place of Newman. Kyle has been absolutely brilliant on and off track for Dudley, and made a great impression. There is a nice thread of messages offering some sincere thanks on the Cradley Fans Forum for him. But he was always a temporary replacement for Adam. The lack of loyalty to drop either Armo or Ash would have been incredulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetrader Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Just catching up so here goes: As already pointed out, but not yet acknowledged by you, Jon is a Dudley asset. Likewise Tom Perry. Ashley is a Wolverhampton asset. Also note, Danny Stoneman was on loan, but has been replaced by Adam Portwood who will also become a Heathens asset if things work out. The progress over the last two seasons of young Brits Ashley Morris, Tom Perry, Richard Franklin, Darryl Ritchings, plus Adam Roynon and Lee Smart would seem to make a mockery of your argument. The National League does develop riders for the higher leagues and Dudley have played a huge part in that already. It is also a competition in which every club competing would like to win. Better not mention now being National League Four Team Tournament Champions then! I think the difference should be noted between wanting to win, which the club clearly do, and wanting to win at all costs. When releasing Luke Chessell as part of the move to bring in Kyle Newman, the club were criticised for the 'win at all costs' attitude. Now by bringing Roynon back in place of Newman instead of Armo or Ash, the club are criticised for not wanting to win or put out the strongest side. Damned if you do and damned if you don't! And so to the point in question and I agree entirely with HalifaxTiger here. To be the clear the choice is as follows. Roynon is fit again, so Dudley can: a) not bring him back at all Replace Newman (as agreed in the first place between rider and club) c) Replace Ashley Morris d) Replace Jon Armstrong I am amazed by the opinion that we should do anything here other than bring Roynon back in place of Newman. Kyle has been absolutely brilliant on and off track for Dudley, and made a great impression. There is a nice thread of messages offering some sincere thanks on the Cradley Fans Forum for him. But he was always a temporary replacement for Adam. The lack of loyalty to drop either Armo or Ash would have been incredulous. Why have you extracted my posts that were not in reply to you. Out of order. Firstly I take it you have seen the Dudley asset list. If so please show me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shad176 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) http://www.dudleyheathens.co/news.php?extend.281 try here Edited July 31, 2011 by wembley81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetrader Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 http://www.dudleyheathens.co/news.php?extend.281 try here Means nothing. Show me the Dudley asset list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shad176 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Means nothing. Show me the Dudley asset list. i,m sorry i dont have it..only the press release given to the public....butif you want to show us the wolves asset list please do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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