TMW Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) dudley promotion do a great job with the supporters but the fan base has always been there even when there was no hope of a track return , 2 things matter in dudley ,a mosque or should i say the not building of a mosque and the speedway , go into any town/city and search for a speedway link ,its hard to find ,even before the rebirth of dudley you dont have to search for long , its in the media everywhere ,its in the black country museum and talk to anyone in the black country, its a big part of what put the black country on the map and that is not the case in other towns around the country, go into any town ask any one to name a speedway rider and they will say barry briggs or ole olsen if they have even heard of speedway ,ask the same question around dudley and its penhall, gundersen ,although the track closed in the 90s the club never did and thats why its successsfull today It's my opinion it's not up to the teams to run suporters clubs, as I said before they have a big enough job maintaining ageing stadiums and tracks on a shoe string, it is up to the supporters themselves to get together and promote their sport in their local towns and cities. There is always an implication, on here particularly, that the promoters have some kind of magic wand that will bring the crowds flocking back yes the teams need to have a good communication channel between team and supporters but if the supporters don't want their sport to die out then get out there and promote it. Which is, I imagine how Dudley and Leicester have kept the dream alive for so long. To be honest because the sport is flagging the home grown riders are to not many young boys going to speedway meetings saying that is what I want to do when I grow up. Edited July 26, 2011 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please. Well I've already pointed out the 'facts'.. At Lakeside, Hackney was promoted as, er, Hackney. A very good separate programme produced with an excellent retro Hackney styling. Rye - as I'm sure all you RH fans have pointed out.. - made zero effort to promote the separate Hackney Hawks identity.. I mean not even bothering to change the prog cover to show it was Hackney rather than RH is a pi$$ poor effort and says it all really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well I've already pointed out the 'facts'.. At Lakeside, Hackney was promoted as, er, Hackney. A very good separate programme produced with an excellent retro Hackney styling. Rye - as I'm sure all you RH fans have pointed out.. - made zero effort to promote the separate Hackney Hawks identity.. I mean not even bothering to change the prog cover to show it was Hackney rather than RH is a pi$$ poor effort and says it all really... The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption. Ben you and i know the reason for this venture.. How many of his hammers fans did John Cook think were going to support the Hawks .Its well documented that Elite league fans dont support the lower leagues in any numbers.. No ammount of promotion was going to make this project succeed ..Prices of admission are the main problem at this level and need to fall in line with other tracks... It is to be hoped that Len can recover the situation and that we will have a team in this league next season called the Raiders..But you could not blame Len if we dont.. Edited July 26, 2011 by waco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Ben you and i know the reason for this venture.. How many of his hammers fans did John Cook think were going to support the Hawks .Its well documented that Elite league fans dont support the lower leagues in any numbers.. No ammount of promotion was going to make this project succeed ..Prices of admission are the main problem at this level and need to fall in line with other tracks... It is to be hoped that Len can recover the situation and that we will have a team in this league next season called the Raiders..But you could not blame Len if we dont.. I totally agree Waco, however if there was no Rye NL team it would be terrible for British speedway IMO, especially with talents such as Morley, Hazelden, Owen and Freemantle, I doubt they would all be accommodated at other NL tracks if Rye wasn't running, whilst none are ready to step up full time to the Premier League, without NL riding to help them develop. In an ideal world, the Raiders will return, entrance fees will drop and fans will come back from the wilderness to watch Rye House's very own National League side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption. Actually you DON'T know the full story, in any way. Jon Cook and Neil Vatcher were poised to open an NL side at another location - brand-new, with planning consent (hopefully I don't need to draw you a picture!); and that, at a relatively late stage, hit the buffers. So the attention shifted instead to 'Hackney'. Yes, with Len also heavily involved. I'd hasten to suggest that Cookie's action in doing so, saved a 'club' (or at least a side comprising seven riders..) from being lost to the league. I also know that, contrary to what everyone on here says they 'know', that there are people seriously looking at the options for a Speedway site near to the old Hackney track within the wider Olympics/Eton Manor area. Some more support for the 'Hackney' project would've helped but sadly the usual suspects on here who are RH supporters (who seemingly are never happy unless they're moaning: eg "the Cobras is a terrible nickname..", er, why?) just rubbished it from the beginning. It's only now that Lakeside have pulled out that RH people are leaping to Len's defence - before he was the 'villian' for allegedly over-chgarging! Just a word about locations. The old Hackney track wasn't in what many people would call 'Hackney'. It was right on the border (and I mean right on the border - Warerden Rd's in THREE different boroughs) of Hackney borough, Newham and Tower Hamlets. The area Hackney Wick is mainly actually in Tower Hamlets (for example the Hackney Wick station is in LBTH..) and thought of (as ironically, now Europe's largest artists' enclave!) as part of Bow.. So should a new track be somehow carved out in this area, I personally can't think there's any sense in calling it 'Hackney'... East London Speedway would have far greater appeal and support area wide.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Parsloes, I still can't quite see why it's Len Silver's fault if Hackney have failed at Lakeside but are still running at Rye House. Surely it is Uncle Len who is the one now keeping the team running? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Actually you DON'T know the full story, in any way. Jon Cook and Neil Vatcher were poised to open an NL side at another location - brand-new, with planning consent (hopefully I don't need to draw you a picture!); and that, at a relatively late stage, hit the buffers. So the attention shifted instead to 'Hackney'. Yes, with Len also heavily involved. I'd hasten to suggest that Cookie's action in doing so, saved a 'club' (or at least a side comprising seven riders..) from being lost to the league. I also know that, contrary to what everyone on here says they 'know', that there are people seriously looking at the options for a Speedway site near to the old Hackney track within the wider Olympics/Eton Manor area. Some more support for the 'Hackney' project would've helped but sadly the usual suspects on here who are RH supporters (who seemingly are never happy unless they're moaning: eg "the Cobras is a terrible nickname..", er, why?) just rubbished it from the beginning. It's only now that Lakeside have pulled out that RH people are leaping to Len's defence - before he was the 'villian' for allegedly over-chgarging! Just a word about locations. The old Hackney track wasn't in what many people would call 'Hackney'. It was right on the border (and I mean right on the border - Warerden Rd's in THREE different boroughs) of Hackney borough, Newham and Tower Hamlets. The area Hackney Wick is mainly actually in Tower Hamlets (for example the Hackney Wick station is in LBTH..) and thought of (as ironically, now Europe's largest artists' enclave!) as part of Bow.. So should a new track be somehow carved out in this area, I personally can't think there's any sense in calling it 'Hackney'... East London Speedway would have far greater appeal and support area wide.. I never claimed to know the story did I?... So basically Len stepped in and gave Cook and Vatcher half the Rye NL sides meetings... You have still not answered my question, just written an essay which I'm really not bothered about. Sometimes you have to accept you're wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy den boy Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Ive never really understood how speedway approaches new ventures.This was a new venture,they knew that some outlets were closed at the track why didnt they say to speedway collecters(there are many on ebay) to come and sell their goods,its free to come but say maybe the stalls pay a percentage of what they take.Also the local Kart track is in the arena complex as is the fishing lake,surely something could have been done to encourage people to these events then go onto speedway.maybe a meet the new riders either in the bar or pits,just anything that would make revenue from nothing like quizzes(or even a jon cook talk on speedway would be interesting after the meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 At no extra cost I believe... £16 for a PL/NL double header is not to be sniffed at! Very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I never claimed to know the story did I?... So basically Len stepped in and gave Cook and Vatcher half the Rye NL sides meetings... You have still not answered my question, just written an essay which I'm really not bothered about. Sometimes you have to accept you're wrong... What am I meant to be wrong about..? Am I wrong that Rye House fans on here slagged this off from the start..? And Rob, I never said Len was responsible, just that the 'Hackney' concept was embraced more by Cookie and at Lakeside than at RH where it's not been promoted as anything 'different' at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollyanna Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I agree that in many ways the Hawks experiment at Lakeside was not a failure, not least in terms of the invaluable experience afforded to the younger riders. Brandon Freemantle, the Bens, et al can only have benefited from the opportunity. As a fan, I was happy to pay a little over the odds for the product to help develop these boys careers. Unfortunately, not enough people felt the same, and I can totally understand the clubs point of view in terms of the financial situation going forward. I applaud Jon Cook and co for at least trying to make it work. Sadly, the same thing happened to the Bourneouth Buccs at Poole last year. I's a difficult financial climate for everyone - Promoters and fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Like someone said, it is nice for some of the ex Hackney fans to see their team race jackets again, but in reality, what chance is there of a return of Speedway to the Hackney area? Therefore, for defunct teams to be using other existing stadiums, the only real benefit is to keep the name going and to publicise the name, in readiness for a new home, as is the reason behind Cradley Heath. Although they have been searching for a long while now and it's not happening yet, but could do, more chance than Hackney I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Like someone said, it is nice for some of the ex Hackney fans to see their team race jackets again, but in reality, what chance is there of a return of Speedway to the Hackney area? Therefore, for defunct teams to be using other existing stadiums, the only real benefit is to keep the name going and to publicise the name, in readiness for a new home, as is the reason behind Cradley Heath. Although they have been searching for a long while now and it's not happening yet, but could do, more chance than Hackney I would say. Why so pessimistic...? Tthe site of the former Hackney track (see above for why that's not accurately to be described as 'Hackney'..) is right in the centre of the biggest park, sports and recreation development this country has ever seen... No room for Speedway..? If we don't try and seize this opportunity then we shall never get a better chance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Was interested to read in your earlier post about the interest in looking for a suitable Speedway venue in the "Olympic" area. It would be great if could come off, but I would worry that the change in demographics in East London over the past couple of decades might mean that Speedway is unlikely to prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Why so pessimistic...? Tthe site of the former Hackney track (see above for why that's not accurately to be described as 'Hackney'..) is right in the centre of the biggest park, sports and recreation development this country has ever seen... No room for Speedway..? If we don't try and seize this opportunity then we shall never get a better chance.. I sincerely hope your optimism becomes reality. Not sure about East London Speedway as a name though. After all, West Ham Football Club will be using the main stadium and I assume they will still be using the name West Ham. An ideal opportunity for the rebirth of West Ham Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Because you are going off the point I made Parsloes, how did Lakeside embrace the project more then Rye? I want facts, not "They produced a better programme." because the programme is not promoting the sport or club. Len Silver does charge too much for Speedway, be it PL or NL level but that isn't my point at all, I even said I wasn't defending him or making him out to be a saint but if it wasn't for him we'd have lost a National League speedway club mid season. It'd be fantastic for the sport to return to London I agree however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I sincerely hope your optimism becomes reality. Not sure about East London Speedway as a name though. After all, West Ham Football Club will be using the main stadium and I assume they will still be using the name West Ham. An ideal opportunity for the rebirth of West Ham Speedway. Agree that East London is naff, but not sure West Ham would be appropriate. Wouldn't want to be associated with the shambles run by the Porn Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT ARE MOANING ABOUT HACKNEY RIDING AT RYE HOUSE AND LEN SLIVER SHOULD STOP NOW.YOU SHOULD BE CARFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECOUSE IF MR HACKNEY /RYE HOUSE PULLS THE PLUG BECOUSE OF THE MOANING WHERE WOULD RYE HOUSE BE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC! Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT ARE MOANING ABOUT HACKNEY RIDING AT RYE HOUSE AND LEN SLIVER SHOULD STOP NOW.YOU SHOULD BE CARFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECOUSE IF MR HACKNEY /RYE HOUSE PULLS THE PLUG BECOUSE OF THE MOANING WHERE WOULD RYE HOUSE BE? No need to shout - and I wouldn't worry too much about Len caring about internet opinion to be honest. Experience suggests that he will relentlessly do what he wants to do and in his own way no matter what anyone says (as,of course, is his right as club and stadium owner). Edited July 27, 2011 by JC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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