ImpartialOne Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 We'll claim that one then. We'll also claim the World Championship successes of Lionel Van Praag, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Young, Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger. All the best Rob Can we have Crump's 3 titles too being as he is half British anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 We'll claim that one then. We'll also claim the World Championship successes of Lionel Van Praag, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Young, Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger. Good call..That should easily make Great Britain the Nation with the most Individual Wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Does cricket or any other sport have a "double points" rule, though? I could be wrong, but I can't think of any other sport which does this? In the domestic 40 over game a no ball costs 2 runs, not the normal 1. T20 allows a free hit after a no ball. Both rules designed to spice up the more knockabout forms of the game and I'm sure both generate lots of coughing and spluttering in the Long Room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadiemae Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 As is usual people are calling for change when they don`t agree with the result. The Final was great with the verdict still unsure until the penultimate heat. Think that speedway was yet again the winner. I agree, 4 riders teams have been tried before and was open to manipulation by the use of a reserve. IF there was a better way of running 4 rider teams then its an option. But personally speaking think the formula of 5 rider teams is right. The only dispute of a team not having 5 riders was down to country politics. They should be penalised and made to qualify for there actions. There was NO REASON why Emil couldnt have ridden on Monday because the problem was solved for the race off. A tough stance should be made to let countries know if you dont ensure 5 riders WILL be available then you will be withdrawn and allow the next ranked team to take there place. Russia have proved there an emerging nation, but did themselves a diservice on Monday by there own federation (politics or not). Well Said Steve, there was loads of nonsense flying around: Emil not getting a Visa in time - didn't think he needed one as he has a Polish passport and manages to ride for Coventry every week!!!! Lagutas not having visas - did they only find out the week before that they were due to ride in Britain and needed one!!!! Dispute between Russian clubs and federation - sort it out children, you had plenty of time Seems we are in the midst of lots of Divas in our sport! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Well the speedway World Cup is over for another year, and congratulations to Poland, in winning it. But I personally think that now is the time to make some changes to the World Cup format, which would improve and freshen- it-up. So first-up I would change the team format. We all know that some teams struggle to raise five strong riders, for their national team. I would change the number of riders to four per team, plus a reserve. This reserve rider would be used for any unforeseen incidents, such as riders being ruled out of the meeting due to injury. Why should any team suffer from being one rider short? The reserve would also be allowed to replace any rider at any time during the meeting. Each main team member would still be allowed on tactical substitute race, if their team is six points or more behind, during the heats 1 – 16 only. Next thing to change is the racing formula. Now that each team consists of four main riders. The races would now be in blocks of four. Gates positions would be changed, so that all teams in each block would receive gates 1, 2, 3 and 4 once only, in each group block of four races, with no rider being programmed to have the same gate more than once during the meeting. This would put an end to team being disadvantaged, in having mostly inside or outside gates in blocks of races, as is the case now. This formula would be fairer to all competing teams. In theory this would make teams stronger. The number of races in the speedway World Cup as we all know is 25 races, per meeting. With four man teams it would revert back to the old traditional 16 heat formula. But I would expand on this, and add an additional four races, which would all be nominated, with no rider being allowed to race in more than once in these races. This would definitely give the team manager’s something to think about. It would also make it extremely interesting for the crowd. Who as we know like to play team manager during meetings, trying to work which rider would ride, in each of these races? And you must remember that all teams would have each gate only once during these races. This would certainly spice things up, towards the end, of the meeting. Now for the dreaded tactical joker. I think that it should either be completely scrapped, or allowance be given for all teams to use once during heats 1 – 16 only. As currently why should the leading team be penalized, for riding well and then a team struggling for points then be given an advantage, in a race, for double points, it just doesn’t make sense to me, or too many other speedway supporters, that I know. You mean as happened to Australia last year. :angry: The Joker cost them the SWC. GET RID OF IT !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The joker should be removed. It penalises the team doing best, so how can that be right. IT also causes tactical rides like Davy Watt in heat 23, that cant be right either. Poland probably wouldn't have won with the imputus the joker win gave them, and took away from the Aussies. Whoever gets most points wins. Simple system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCB Wildcat Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Completely agree, I understand that the joker can keep the contest close and keep it interesting till the end but I cannot justify it as fair. Its not just the points gained in that one ride but the psychological effect on the team that has seen its hard earned lead eroded in one heat as Mark says. The concept of the Joker as originally used in Its a knockout was that each team got to play it at their chosen event so if we must have it then that should be the case as has previously been suggested in this thread. In its present form it makes the SWC as farcical as Its a knockout How can it right when the chasing teams rider is deliberately running last in order to be able to use the joker while the leading teams rider has no intention of passing the rider in front of him to prevent the joker being used? Thats not racing is it? If its such a good idea why not use it in the Grand Prix? Any rider that is 6 points behind the leader gets a double point ride? How daft would that be? About the same as in SWC? Edited July 20, 2011 by AFCB Wildcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 In the domestic 40 over game a no ball costs 2 runs, not the normal 1. T20 allows a free hit after a no ball. Both rules designed to spice up the more knockabout forms of the game and I'm sure both generate lots of coughing and spluttering in the Long Room. Both the above are punishments for foul play. Football has free kicks and penalty kicks for transgressions of the rules. Neither of the above punish a winning team and reward an inferior losing preformance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCaptain Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Both the above are punishments for foul play. Football has free kicks and penalty kicks for transgressions of the rules. Neither of the above punish a winning team and reward an inferior losing preformance. Surely any sport with a handicap system (golf, horse racing) 'punishes' a winning team or individual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 only 2 things need changeing in the swc ,1st it should be made prime time viewing on every channel around the world cause the final was the most entertaining sporting event anywhere in the world this year ,it made crap like pompass tennis and cricket and bloody golf look like party political broadcasts and 2nd ,team GB need to win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Surely any sport with a handicap system (golf, horse racing) 'punishes' a winning team or individual? No criticism intended but that's another false comparison. When have you ever seen a horse being saddled with extra weight in the middle of a race being run lol. The references you make refer to grading the standard of competition before an event takes place, not altering it in the height of battle because one team is performing well and the other poorly. Edited July 20, 2011 by manchesterpaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Both the above are punishments for foul play. Football has free kicks and penalty kicks for transgressions of the rules. Neither of the above punish a winning team and reward an inferior losing preformance. You mean like DRS in F1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) The joker should be removed. It penalises the team doing best, so how can that be right. IT also causes tactical rides like Davy Watt in heat 23, that cant be right either. Poland probably wouldn't have won with the imputus the joker win gave them, and took away from the Aussies. Whoever gets most points wins. Simple system. yep i agree with you. i also think that tactical substitutes needs to go. It should be about which team that has the 5 best riders, not which team that has the three best riders. I also think that the ability to change riders between each round should be limited to one change. I don't like when teams change their entire team (almost) from one round to another.Pick your 6 riders and do the best of it. Edited July 21, 2011 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 yep i agree with you. i also think that tactical substitutes needs to go. It should be about which team that has the 5 best riders, not which team that has the three best riders. I also think that the ability to change riders between each round should be limited to one change. I don't like when teams change their entire team (almost) from one round to another.Pick your 6 riders and do the best of it. But then you will have teams turning up with 4 riders again if they get hit by injuries. I don't see a problem with team changes. If 2 of your 5 are useless why take them to the next round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 In the domestic 40 over game a no ball costs 2 runs, not the normal 1. T20 allows a free hit after a no ball. Both rules designed to spice up the more knockabout forms of the game and I'm sure both generate lots of coughing and spluttering in the Long Room. Both the above are punishments for foul play. Football has free kicks and penalty kicks for transgressions of the rules. Neither of the above punish a winning team and reward an inferior losing preformance. Surely any sport with a handicap system (golf, horse racing) 'punishes' a winning team or individual? No criticism intended but that's another false comparison. When have you ever seen a horse being saddled with extra weight in the middle of a race being run lol. The references you make refer to grading the standard of competition before an event takes place, not altering it in the height of battle because one team is performing well and the other poorly. You mean like DRS in F1? Sorry SCB, don't know if a late night last night and early rise this morning is addling what few brain cells i possess but.......haven't a clue what your point is. I had to Gooogle what on earth DRS was. It seems to be a mechanical adjustment one can make during the qualifying for a race??? If so, appologies as like i say, i'm not sure what comparison or point you are making. As with the above two examples i quoted, if i understand it correctly, it's not a change made during the height of competition that punishes a team performing well and bestows an advantage on a team performing poorly. Especially, when that team will most likely deliberately perform poorly just ahead of nearing the margin for the award for being bad. Are you saying that this DRS is applied at the height of the actual race and given to the backmarkers but not allowed for the leaders? If not, then the argument falls by the wayside on the same grounds as the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Are you saying that this DRS is applied at the height of the actual race and given to the backmarkers but not allowed for the leaders? If not, then the argument falls by the wayside on the same grounds as the other two. No, SCB is right. DRS is available during a race and gives a potential advantage to a car behind another. It can only be used when a trailing car is a certain distance behind, but it's somewhat analogous to the joker in speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the explanation Charles. Clearly though it's not remotely as severe an advantage as the joker is in Speedway. It's only employed because of the tremendous drag forces present right behind a F1 car. And the driver who has just been overtaken will simply overtake his opponent right back using the same rule? (within one second of the driver in front) Also, it's restricted as to where one can employ it on the course. It still isn't a direct comparison with the joker as in Speedway the joker rider finishing second to the winner receives more points! Edited July 21, 2011 by manchesterpaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks for the explanation Charles. Clearly though it's not remotely as severe an advantage as the joker is in Speedway. It's only employed because of the tremendous drag forces present right behind a F1 car. And the driver who has just been overtaken will simply overtake his opponent right back using the same rule? (within one second of the driver in front) Also, it's restricted as to where one can employ it on the course. It still isn't a direct comparison with the joker as in Speedway the joker rider finishing second to the winner receives more points! ...........................and there's the rub - DITCH IT!!! Oh!! Did I mention - it's UNFAIR too if one Team is not allowed to use the It's A Knockout 'Joker' (by not falling far enough behind) If ALL Teams can use it - they negate each other - so why have it??? - DITCH IT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 It still isn't a direct comparison with the joker as in Speedway the joker rider finishing second to the winner receives more points! I didn't suggest that I agreed with the joker rule, but I think it's a minor issue compared to the rest of the things that are wrong with speedway. I'd prefer to see tactical subs in the SWC, and unlike league competition, I can't imagine it would cost any more as the prize money is pre-determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 DRS is available during a race and gives a potential advantage to a car behind another. It can only be used when a trailing car is a certain distance behind, but it's somewhat analogous to the joker in speedway. who cares what they do in motor racing, it's rubbish. this is speedway, keep it simple, no joker. the mechanics make changes to the bikes after each race, thats all that is needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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