Colts V Heathens

[Butch]

Me talk crap? I'm trying to make the point that too many experts, who stand on the terracing are making comments about a dangerous sport on a dangerous track, when they have no idea what it's like to ride one of these machines in any conditions!

[heathhen1]

meeting questions and facts

QUESTIONS

1 should such a meeting ever gone ahead .

2 should any team ever have to ride with only three riders

3 is there a rule for the above with SCB if not why not

4 should a number 1 of a team publically state his opinion of the other team over the tannoy

5 should a captain be ridiculed for trying to protect his team and also over ruled

6 most of the refs decisions

7 THE TRACK

8 with all that has been said about the heathens fans was all the comments by fans rider and gestures by bv riders a deliberate attempt to provoke trouble from them

9 were the fans badley behaved

10 who is going to be accountable for this fars

 

FACTS

 

1 the meeting was a complete joke

2 heathen fans didnt care about points just there lads and wanted it called off from heat 2 have your points bv

3 did heathen fans rise to the goading yes but only in a vocal non swearing way

4 were we fighting amongst our selves no one fan was told to stop there language a few heated words were exchanged but was handled by hssc and some fans were security called yes as a precautionary mesure where they needed no infact the fans had great time talking and jokeing with the s guards

5 did we see speedway no it ran to heat 12 but bear in mind it easy to ride a race with two of you in a 69+second time frame

6 are we having sour grapes yes only thought because we travel miles to see our lads get hurt and the fact no one cared about them but armo and no one appeared to listen to him

7 kyle howarth is a compleat ----- sorry staying professional in this post wich is something he is not

8 should a ref need to put on a white light to disqualify a rider on a spinal board 5 miles away in hospital ( just one example of one of his better decisions )

9 fans were begging the lads not to ride dosnt that say something about them after traveling all that way and the money they spent

10 maybe the condition of the track is out of refs hands and even b v itself but if anyone would have got killed last night or in the future may it be on there concience

 

AND THIS IS FACT WHY BECAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE AND I DONT LIE IF ANYONE WANTS TO PICK OR CAN PICK BONES OUT OF THIS CARRY ON AND TRY

[heathhen1]

This meeting showed all the worst about British Speedway .

 

An appalling track surface that caused an abnormal number of crashes in the early heats (anyone who says the Colts could ride it obviously did not see Scott Richardson in heat two)and finally a multiple rider pile up at the start of heat seven. Even after major track grading, the Belle Vue team managers comment was that the track was 'rideable' - I'd probably just about agree, but the number of crashes before that suggest that it was anything but and it says everything that 'rideable' is about the best comment he can make.

 

We then had the spectacle of riders, officials and the referee involved in 'heated exchanges' on the first two turns about whether to continue. One, understandably, did. The other (equally, and in my opinion more) understandably did not. Kyle Howarth deserved the angry reaction he got when he suggested that Dudley only wanted the match abandoned because they were losing, while Jon Armstrong's statement that 'speedway is dangerous enough' was fully justified.

 

The next 6 heats were an absolute shambles, with riders refusing to come out and others going through the motions.

 

Finally, we had the elastic curfew. Ken Wrench announced that it was 10.00pm, yet racing continued until well after that so that a rsult could be declared. If the curfew is 10.30, why was the meeting abandoned for that reason before that time ? Home promotions cynically twist curfew times to suit their own ends and the sooner that is taken out of their control the better.

 

Speedway's crookedness, cynicism and 'take what you get' attitude to its paying customers was never more demonstrated than last night, and was enough to put a dent in the enthusiasm of the most committed fan. I was due to go there twice more this season (to see Barrie and Oliver) but I will be rethinking that. I certainly won't be going again otherwise.

 

There was one tiny bright spot, and that was the young female presenter. She did her best to drum up support in a stadium notorious for its lack of atmosphere, kept everyone informed and very fairly (and possibly quite bravely) got opinion from both sides. Impressive .

NICE TO SEE A VIEW OF ANOTHER

[junior fan]

Differing track conditions are part of racing, sounds like the riders that were prepared to attack the track got the rewards.

Still couldnt believe the score though.

 

 

Junior

[Halifaxtiger]

Criticism -YES complete hatchett job - NO. The track was more than rideable as Perry proved in heat 3 by riding a brilliant race reeling in his oponenets slowly and surely over 4 laps.

 

Now all riders have been given the all clear, thank goodness. The fact of the matter is the heathens were gating terribly and their own fans have flagged this up before, in previous meetings, leaving themselves a lot to do during the 4 laps. When the track would have been at it's worst, I imagine, Heat 1 Kyle Howarth showed everybody how to ride a grippy track.

 

Armstrong was in Heat 1, showing a drop in form recently, also highlighted by Dudley fans on this forum. If the track was so dangerous and lives were at stake why didnt he refuse to ride the rest of the meeting why would he leave it till Heat 7. He as the anouncer said knows the track like the back of his hand a man of his experince should have known how that track was going to perform for the rest of the meeting.

 

The Heathens came up in the KO Cup and caught the Colts a little bit non compus mentus and I believe they thought they would come and do it again securing all 4 points only this time found a completely differnt team and struggled to cope.

 

Well done to Brendan, Adam and Darryl who saw a tricky track and thought Eyup an opportunity for experince here with nothing to loose and everthing to gain.

 

Lets not forget that the Colts riders are used to the appalling surface(because according to virtually every source its like that every week) giving them a huge advantage over everyone else. Dudley, on the other hand, ride something like that once or twice a season because nowhere else (with the possible exception of Buxton -and they appear to be responding to criticism)is like that.

 

As one Dudley fan pointed out, Perry is the one Heathens riders who is used to such dreadful condiitions because he's a grass tracker (European Champion of some kind, I believe).

 

Armstrong was complaining about the track from heat one and was instrumental in insisting that grading be done after heat 5. Its little wonder that he had had enough by heat 7, with his team mates pulling out of the meeting one after the other and Perry on his way to hospital.

 

'Tricky track' Disgraceful would be much closer. 'Nothing to lose and everything to gain' You simply have to be joking. I can see all too clearly what they might lose by riding a track like that but what on earth could they gain when there is only Belle Vue that is like it ?

 

All of which is more or less irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the track was awful and there is absolutely no excuse for that whatsoever. Riders safety is put at risk, spectators pay to watch a load of completely one sided rubbish and the sport is brought into disrepute when the opposition team (understandably) refuse to ride.

 

If this is a hatchet job (and indeed it could be) it is nothing less than Belle Vue deserve.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Halifaxtiger

[MrsNiceman]

Firstly I am so glad to hear the lads are going to be ok.

 

Can I just ask, does the referee have to give a meet/match report to a governing body and if they do is it available for public viewing?

 

Personally I thought it was completely unprofessional of the referee,(and the teams) to stand in the middle of the track having heated arguments on whether the track was rideable or not. He should have done an inspection himself and then taken it behind closed doors with the team managers and the captains.

There will rarely be a referees decision that suits both sides, that is why there has to ref's there in the first place. However once his decision has been made then that should be

final.

 

I know some of the lads did not want to continue because of injuries, and I know Jon took a heavy knock in one of the heats, but if he just decided he wasn't going to ride the remainder of the races ( as he suggested in his tannoy interview) will he now be open to disciplinary action either from his team or from the governing body?

 

I have also noted people mentioning about why the racing was stopped at 10:22 and not continued through to curfew 10:30pm... why, if they are saying the track was unrideable/unsafe/dangerous and the meet should have been abandoned are they now arguing the racing should have been continued ? Confusing.

Or is the fact the meet was 'called' before the curfew cut off is this going to be a grounds to have the meet declared 'void'

Not trying to cause any trouble just trying to get to grips with all legislations and rules of speedway.

Edited July 14, 2011 by MrsNiceman

[martin_t]

 

I have also noted people mentioning about why the racing was stopped at 10:22 and not continued through to curfew 10:30pm... why, if they are saying the track was unrideable/unsafe/dangerous and the meet should have been abandoned are they now arguing the racing should have been continued ? Confusing.

Or is the fact the meet was 'called' before the curfew cut off is this going to be a grounds to have the meet declared 'void'

Not trying to cause any trouble just trying to get to grips with all legislations and rules of speedway.

 

The result stands after 12 races so no need to rerun it I guess

[Halifaxtiger]

Firstly I am so glad to hear the lads are going to be ok.

 

Can I just ask, does the referee have to give a meet/match report to a governing body and if they do is it available for public viewing?

 

Personally I thought it was completely unprofessional of the referee,(and the teams) to stand in the middle of the track having heated arguments on whether the track was rideable or not. He should have done an inspection himself and then taken it behind closed doors with the team managers and the captains.

There will rarely be a referees decision that suits both sides, that is why there has to ref's there in the first place. However once his decision has been made then that should be

final.

 

I know some of the lads did not want to continue because of injuries, and I know Jon took a heavy knock in one of the heats, but if he just decided he wasn't going to ride the remainder of the races ( as he suggested in his tannoy interview) will he now be open to disciplinary action either from his team or from the governing body?

 

I have also noted people mentioning about why the racing was stopped at 10:22 and not continued through to curfew 10:30pm... why, if they are saying the track was unrideable/unsafe/dangerous and the meet should have been abandoned are they now arguing the racing should have been continued ? Confusing.

Or is the fact the meet was 'called' before the curfew cut off is this going to be a grounds to have the meet declared 'void'

Not trying to cause any trouble just trying to get to grips with all legislations and rules of speedway.

 

The referee does give a report on the track. To my knowledge, it is not made public.

 

To be fair, the discussion was about the track so it had to take place out there so that both sides could make their case by pointing to what they thought was right or wrong. I can see your point, but its difficult to do that in a changing room.

 

I would say that any rider who refuses to ride after a track has been declared safe by a referee should be subject to disciplinary action. Whether that will be the case or not I don't know.

 

It was stated that the meeting was abandoned at heat 12 (which means that the result stands) because of the curfew. Ken Wrench (the announcer) did state that that was at 10.00 pm but Rob B has stated 10.30. If it was 10.00, the question to ask is why was it completely ignored ? If it was 10.30, why was the meeting abandoned before the curfew came into force ? I suspect we'll never get an answer to either or both.

 

My advice is not to dig too deep into rules and regulations. As most speedway fans will tell you the rule book is scarcely worth the paper it is printed on.

[21st century heathen]

My fault on that one.

 

Just for the record - I wasn't having a dig I was just wondering which report was accurate so I knew what sort of conditions the riders had to face.

 

Can I just ask, does the referee have to give a meet/match report to a governing body and if they do is it available for public viewing?

 

The ref will submit a meeting report along with official heat details. These reports and result are supposed to be available to view on the SCB website but only the official results are shown, and sadly not the ref's meeting report. Sadly Dudley Heathens aren't even acknowledged on there. Our meetings are listed under Wolverhampton (Hackney is missing too).

 

http://www.scbgb.co.uk/viewresults.php

 

----------------------------------

 

Good to read today that all our boys have escaped with just a bit of a battering but no broken bones.

[MrsNiceman]

 

 

To be fair, the discussion was about the track so it had to take place out there so that both sides could make their case by pointing to what they thought was right or wrong. I can see your point, but its difficult to do that in a changing room.

 

 

 

Point taken. I just thought it would have been better, once the inspection had been done to take it away from the public viewing.

The discussions were very heated(understandibly)and individual riders should not be under scrutiny or criticism for their personal feelings and decisions because they have been overheard or interviewed when in a very emotive state.

[Rapidroscoe]

7 kyle howarth is a compleat ----- sorry staying professional in this post wich is something he is not

 

I'll pick the spelling bones its complete and which. I think you are out of order for having a go at one person, dont forget hes only 17 and has the guts to race a bike, something you probably don't

 

 

AND THIS IS FACT WHY BECAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE AND I DONT LIE IF ANYONE WANTS TO PICK OR CAN PICK BONES OUT OF THIS CARRY ON AND TRY

[moxey63]

No offence to Ken but he is getting quite old now, maybe bit confused.

 

 

And I got banned from the Belle Vue website for insulting behaviour.

[moxey63]

The thing is, speedway has a reputation for diddling its customers. Last night was possibly another occasion.

[heathen79]

The thing is Rob I really don't see how a meetiung can be abandoned due to curfew (and that is what we were told)when the curfew hadn't been reached. That's bizarre.

 

If the meeting wasn't abandoned due to the curfew, why was it abandoned at all?

 

I completely agree. And when the officials at the track don't know whether the curfew is 10pm or 10:30 because they are 'old and confused', I think we are on some dodgy ground!

 

 

I have also noted people mentioning about why the racing was stopped at 10:22 and not continued through to curfew 10:30pm... why, if they are saying the track was unrideable/unsafe/dangerous and the meet should have been abandoned are they now arguing the racing should have been continued ? Confusing.

 

Well I would summise that the sensible fans who are saying that the track was clearly dangerous are the ones questioning why the referee chose to cease the meeting around 10 minutes before the curfew, when it was him who had declared the track was perfectly ok. Now, thats confusing!

[heathen79]

err pretty much yes...only belle vue riders that fell were mason in heat 1 and bekker slid off in heat 9 nothing to do with track at that point. compared to 6 dudley riders thats not including heat 7.

 

A summary of the falls from the updates site:

 

Ht1: Mason fell lap 2 bend 2 when 2nd he was hit by Armstrong.

Ht2:Johnson fell lap 1 bend 4 when 2nd excluded all riders ok.

Bizarre heat Richardson all over the place looked to Halifax like Portwood laid it down to miss him when he hit the fence for the 3rd time

Ht3: Bekker fell remounted lap 1

Ht4: Another crash, Newman locked up bend 1 and fell Richardson and Johnson crashed all riders up and walking back.

Ht5: No crash!

Ht6: Newman then fell lap 3.

Ht7: Another crash :/ Widman, Perry and Morris all came together Referee now making track inspection. Re-run 2 riders only.

Ht8: No crash!

Ht9: Bekker fell and remounted twice. 3 riders only.

Ht10: 2 Colts riders only.

Ht11: Johnson fell hit by Ritchings up and ok but excluded.

Ht12: 3 riders only. Match abandoned.

 

Read more: http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bvc&action=display&thread=8396&page=1#ixzz1S6LFJiaM

 

Seems a bit more to it than 'just the Dudley riders falling off'!

[heathhen1]

rapidrosco my son is 14 and would never say what kyle said and he has asd Daryl Adam ect even jason had some dignity he wants to shut his gob and as to me you don't no or know me if you want the right spelling dont know me so dont judge what i can do !!!!!!!!!!!"

[heathen79]

Gaffer's on Radio WM right now.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/birmingham_and_black_country/

 

Phone-in to follow.

[Albert]

A summary of the falls from the updates site:

 

Ht1: Mason fell lap 2 bend 2 when 2nd he was hit by Armstrong.

Ht2:Johnson fell lap 1 bend 4 when 2nd excluded all riders ok.

Bizarre heat Richardson all over the place looked to Halifax like Portwood laid it down to miss him when he hit the fence for the 3rd time

Ht3: Bekker fell remounted lap 1

Ht4: Another crash, Newman locked up bend 1 and fell Richardson and Johnson crashed all riders up and walking back.

Ht5: No crash!

Ht6: Newman then fell lap 3.

Ht7: Another crash :/ Widman, Perry and Morris all came together Referee now making track inspection. Re-run 2 riders only.

Ht8: No crash!

Ht9: Bekker fell and remounted twice. 3 riders only.

Ht10: 2 Colts riders only.

Ht11: Johnson fell hit by Ritchings up and ok but excluded.

Ht12: 3 riders only. Match abandoned.

 

Read more: http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bvc&action=display&thread=8396&page=1#ixzz1S6LFJiaM

 

Seems a bit more to it than 'just the Dudley riders falling off'!

 

Less controversial..but not too disimilar events when the Saints went there early on this season.

 

Parade : Wrathall fell on Parade and hurt his shoulder

Heat 01: Saints on 5-1 when Cooper slid off bend 3. In re-run Richardson nudged Worrall first bend. Worrall fell.

Heat 02: R. Worrall leading for 2 laps fell last lap trying to defend 2nd.

Heat 03:

Heat 04:

Heat 05:

Heat 06: Was a 3-3 until both Saints fell bend 3.

Heat 07:

Heat 08: Nielsen fell 1st bend after the race had already been stopped. Richardson fell lap 1.

Heat 09:

Heat 10: Bekker fell last lap while leading. Richardson retired lap 3 after falling bend 2.

Heat 11: Nielseen fell bend 4 while challenging the Belle Vue Pair.

Heat 12:

Heat 13: Cooper fell bend 2 after making a fine gate.

Heat 14: Nielsen went into bend 1 too hard and came a cropper.

Heat 15: Birks fell 2nd bend.

 

I make that 14 crashes :-(

 

http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bvc&action=display&thread=7836

[Rapidroscoe]

rapidrosco my son is 14 and would never say what kyle said and he has asd Daryl Adam ect even jason had some dignity he wants to shut his gob and as to me you don't no or know me if you want the right spelling dont know me so dont judge what i can do !!!!!!!!!!!"

 

no your right i dont know you, but if your setting your 14yr old an example of making personal attacks on people doesnt really say much does it, point is were going to disagree which is fine, but dont attack people, especially friends of mine who you pay to see entertain you

[ouch]

We had a match earlier this year when the Colts threw points away with falls etc. It's a learning curve and they just got on with it together with the opposition. Cup match I think.

Glad the lads are ok, I hate to see injuries. We had a match where we lost our number one plus our best rider. Can't remember where but will look it up as I won't be going there again to see injuries like that.