Speedway World Cup Team Line Ups

[PHILIPRISING]

Ok so no Scotty in Poland on Thursday, but on the plus side it gives the younger riders a chance to gain vital expierence. Lets face it and with due respect to the guys Bomber and Scotty don't have a huge number of years of top flite racing left. Whats gonna happen when this does happen, and we have to pitch in guys with no expierence and take a proper humping......then the management will be slated for lack of foresight.

I'm right behind our team no matter how often they are named England. MON THE BRITS

 

HARRIS is only 28... and I would bet we haven't seen anywhere near the best of him yet. His hunting down and passing of Gollob at KL last night was evidence of what he can do with the right set-up and equipment. Long may it continue.

[Marmite]

HARRIS is only 28... and I would bet we haven't seen anywhere near the best of him yet. His hunting down and passing of Gollob at KL last night was evidence of what he can do with the right set-up and equipment. Long may it continue.

 

Agreed, not many riders in the world will pass Gollob once he has his nose in front, what Chris did last night to pip Gollob was fantastic racing. I know Harris as his gating faults, but he is a pure racer so I don't understand why some people give him such a hard time on here.

[PHILIPRISING]

Agreed, not many riders in the world will pass Gollob once he has his nose in front, what Chris did last night to pip Gollob was fantastic racing. I know Harris as his gating faults, but he is a pure racer so I don't understand why some people give him such a hard time on here.

 

AMEN to that

[iNikeAguero]

Agreed, not many riders in the world will pass Gollob once he has his nose in front, what Chris did last night to pip Gollob was fantastic racing. I know Harris as his gating faults, but he is a pure racer so I don't understand why some people give him such a hard time on here.

 

Batchelor passed Gollob on the last lap in Poland.

[Guest JoLouBurn]

You just have to love back seat drivers, don't ya?

 

Firstly anyone who would suggest a rider would put their bike down or fall off on purpose must be absolutely crazy!! All those who have said that here, have you ever fallen off a bike? I suspect not, because i have and it really hurts. As an example 15mph we slid on some diesel and down we went. I now have no feeling in my left knee and an extremely weak left thumb. Are you trying to tell me that riders would risk injuries far worse than mine at far higher speeds for what? To get someone else excluded? To gain some benefit? Run the risk of having yourself excluded? Come on, lets be realistic, no rider would risk injury by throwing the bike!

 

Secondly there are a few riders whom i dislike from a personal point of view, i however can recognise they have skill and talent. We all have bad days at the office, it's just that when a speedway rider does it's far more public. Why be so unforgiving of other peoples mistakes when you would expect someone to be understanding of your own? There is not one rider that goes out onto that track to lose! Don't forget, no points no pay!!

 

For those who have slagged off team GB and it's management, well i'd love to see any one of you do what those people do. If you think you can do better, go on and try. Disappointment is understandable and shows passion but down right slagging off and name calling is just bang out of order. What would you say to someone who claimed to know how to do your job but better? I know what i'd say.

 

To claim that the likes of Harris only have a few years left is mind boggling to me. Have you read the GP standings lately? Greg Hancock is 41, Tomasz Gollob 40. By those standards Harris could still be riding in another 12 / 13 years.

 

 

I think a lot of people posting on this thread need to take a look at their attitudes before they start slagging off the attitudes of riders. If someone hurt your friend / workmate what you would do? Would you stand there and let it go or would you make your feelings clear about in some way? Whilst violence of course is not the answer it is easy to see how passions overspill and get aired in not alwyas the best way but for the right reasons.

[Big Yin]

HARRIS is only 28... and I would bet we haven't seen anywhere near the best of him yet. His hunting down and passing of Gollob at KL last night was evidence of what he can do with the right set-up and equipment. Long may it continue.

 

Philip....What I meant was that Bomber won't be around for ever. And I agree that Bomber was fantastic value for money.

[nw42]

You just have to love back seat drivers, don't ya?

 

Firstly anyone who would suggest a rider would put their bike down or fall off on purpose must be absolutely crazy!! All those who have said that here, have you ever fallen off a bike? I suspect not, because i have and it really hurts. As an example 15mph we slid on some diesel and down we went. I now have no feeling in my left knee and an extremely weak left thumb. Are you trying to tell me that riders would risk injuries far worse than mine at far higher speeds for what? To get someone else excluded? To gain some benefit? Run the risk of having yourself excluded? Come on, lets be realistic, no rider would risk injury by throwing the bike!

 

Secondly there are a few riders whom i dislike from a personal point of view, i however can recognise they have skill and talent. We all have bad days at the office, it's just that when a speedway rider does it's far more public. Why be so unforgiving of other peoples mistakes when you would expect someone to be understanding of your own? There is not one rider that goes out onto that track to lose! Don't forget, no points no pay!!

 

For those who have slagged off team GB and it's management, well i'd love to see any one of you do what those people do. If you think you can do better, go on and try. Disappointment is understandable and shows passion but down right slagging off and name calling is just bang out of order. What would you say to someone who claimed to know how to do your job but better? I know what i'd say.

 

To claim that the likes of Harris only have a few years left is mind boggling to me. Have you read the GP standings lately? Greg Hancock is 41, Tomasz Gollob 40. By those standards Harris could still be riding in another 12 / 13 years.

 

 

I think a lot of people posting on this thread need to take a look at their attitudes before they start slagging off the attitudes of riders. If someone hurt your friend / workmate what you would do? Would you stand there and let it go or would you make your feelings clear about in some way? Whilst violence of course is not the answer it is easy to see how passions overspill and get aired in not alwyas the best way but for the right reasons.

 

 

Great first post imo, the attitude of some on here is nothing short of disgraceful, it goes beyond just expressing an opinion or having banter in some cases. Thankfully these people are in the minority, a seemingly increasing minority though.

I hope you stay to post again.

[spook]

You just have to love back seat drivers, don't ya?

 

Firstly anyone who would suggest a rider would put their bike down or fall off on purpose must be absolutely crazy!! All those who have said that here, have you ever fallen off a bike? I suspect not, because i have and it really hurts. As an example 15mph we slid on some diesel and down we went. I now have no feeling in my left knee and an extremely weak left thumb. Are you trying to tell me that riders would risk injuries far worse than mine at far higher speeds for what? To get someone else excluded? To gain some benefit? Run the risk of having yourself excluded? Come on, lets be realistic, no rider would risk injury by throwing the bike!

 

 

welcome to the forum

 

not sure why you are talking about riders chucking their bikes but we do all know that some riders do it don't we? Hans Nielsen was a master at getting off in the first bend if the gate didnt go his way and a rider (any rider!) was close enough to be a potential patsy.......... Nicki Pedersen is down on the ground far more than anyone else and it can be easily argued that he is playing the %'s....... some have suggested that Bomber isnt adverse to jumping off as well................ I believe the Americans used to have a test that prospective riders had to pass before they could race Costa Mesa which was showing that they could deliberately lay the bike down

 

I suspect from your post that you are close to a rider(s) ... so you more than most will know the professionals that they are.... but from what I see this means different things to different riders

 

sorry to hear about your injuries

[TrueBee]

Bomber's race with Gollob was brilliant, the atmosphere was great in the stadium after that win - only temporary mind you!

 

I'm a big Bomber fan so it was worth the admission just to see that!

 

I'm looking forward to the race offs. I think we have a chance, it's going to be bloody tough but I think we're capable of pulling it off.

Edited July 12, 2011 by TrueBee

[Guest JoLouBurn]

nw42, thank you for your welcome to the forums. I most certainly will be sticking around and hopefully making many more (what i hope will) contributions.

 

 

welcome to the forum

 

not sure why you are talking about riders chucking their bikes but we do all know that some riders do it don't we? Hans Nielsen was a master at getting off in the first bend if the gate didnt go his way and a rider (any rider!) was close enough to be a potential patsy.......... Nicki Pedersen is down on the ground far more than anyone else and it can be easily argued that he is playing the %'s....... some have suggested that Bomber isnt adverse to jumping off as well................ I believe the Americans used to have a test that prospective riders had to pass before they could race Costa Mesa which was showing that they could deliberately lay the bike down

 

I suspect from your post that you are close to a rider(s) ... so you more than most will know the professionals that they are.... but from what I see this means different things to different riders

 

sorry to hear about your injuries

 

 

Thank you for your welcome.

 

I would agree that riders who have gone down will stay down if it is to their advantage, but let's be honest who wouldn't?

I however do have trouble as i said with the belief that riders go down on purpose knowing the risk of injuries they may incur, unless we are now saying they are stunt riders too and can guarantee a controlled fall.

When you talk about Nicki Pedersen being on the ground more than most it is not something i have taken note of, but hey you might be right. However when you talk about playing percentages you are suggesting a rider, Nicki in this instance plays with a lot of unknowns and in the mains come up trumps. If he didn't he wouldn't play the percentages after all!! I feel there are two many unknowns in this scenario for profit, you would have had to study the ref well enough to hedge your bet which way he would rule. You would have to be able to fall in a controlled manner insuring your risk of injury was minimal. And if you have a conscience you would have to know or be 99% certain your opponent would not be hurt.

The Americans may well have had a test to ensure riders could lay their bike down on purpose but as last night proved there are times when you have to lay your bike down to avoid a worse collision. Could this not be the reason it was ensured they could do this and not for the cynical reason you insinuate?

[Trees]

Fair enough.

 

As a paying customer though my opinion is that the dirt was too wide from too early on.

Having it slicker on the inside and grippier on the outside is something Buster has been doing this season, dunno why, someone ask him, MB??

[ImpartialOne]

welcome to the forum

 

not sure why you are talking about riders chucking their bikes but we do all know that some riders do it don't we? Hans Nielsen was a master at getting off in the first bend if the gate didnt go his way and a rider (any rider!) was close enough to be a potential patsy.......... Nicki Pedersen is down on the ground far more than anyone else and it can be easily argued that he is playing the %'s....... some have suggested that Bomber isnt adverse to jumping off as well................ I believe the Americans used to have a test that prospective riders had to pass before they could race Costa Mesa which was showing that they could deliberately lay the bike down

 

I suspect from your post that you are close to a rider(s) ... so you more than most will know the professionals that they are.... but from what I see this means different things to different riders

 

sorry to hear about your injuries

You are correct, just as stunt men can fall off a bike without injuring themselves, riders know when it is relatively safe to drop the bike and yes, in some countries riders are taught to lay the bike down, something that should be done here.

 

You would never see a rider go headlong into the fence (ie, straight on) to get a re-run because that would be crazy but it's pretty easy to lay a bike down without causing too much damage once you learn how and it becomes second nature, or at least it should. It's a case of learning how to fall.

 

One thing riders learn very quickly is if you're going to crash hard, don't hold onto the bike. Also the more you tense, the more likely you are to break something, but it's not always easy to relax when you're traveling in the air at 60mph!

[nw42]

welcome to the forum

 

not sure why you are talking about riders chucking their bikes but we do all know that some riders do it don't we? Hans Nielsen was a master at getting off in the first bend if the gate didnt go his way and a rider (any rider!) was close enough to be a potential patsy.......... Nicki Pedersen is down on the ground far more than anyone else and it can be easily argued that he is playing the %'s....... some have suggested that Bomber isnt adverse to jumping off as well................ I believe the Americans used to have a test that prospective riders had to pass before they could race Costa Mesa which was showing that they could deliberately lay the bike down

 

I suspect from your post that you are close to a rider(s) ... so you more than most will know the professionals that they are.... but from what I see this means different things to different riders

 

sorry to hear about your injuries

 

I think they were referring to the earlier part of the thread where I think there was discussion about whether or not the Aussie was trying to throw the race by almost coming to grief on the 3rd/4th turn, was it Troy Batchelor?

 

You are right though, there's always been riders who seem to hit the deck easier than others, just like there are diving footballers, it's cheating but not always easy to detect, that's where it boils down to opinions. The problem is that some of the opinions expressed go too far by hurling personal abuse, it's quite embarassing to read some of it when considering it is spouted by people who are old enough to know better, proper playground mentality.

 

I'm sure you are right about the Americans and laying the bike down, it should be part of every riders training really, it may save a life sometime considering it's the quickest way to bring the bike to a halt, look at last night, but for the skill of the Russian it could have been very nasty for Scott Nicholls, there are plenty of other instances where the skill of the rider following a faller has avoided serious injury for both. The problem is that, as you say, some riders use their laying down skills to their advantage, I don't know how you could stop them though.

[Pinny]

Harris is currently the best Brit but I dont think we will see him better his #6 in the world from 2010 anytime soon unless he can sort his gating. He currently is performing awfully in the GPS and as it stands, there should not be a Brit in the SGP series of 2012.

 

Of course, Harris could do what he done last year and have an impressive run at the end of the year but I am not too sure. What I am sure about is unless he makes the top 8, he should NOT be given a wildcard (neither should any Brit).

[stevebrum]

Just to add i enjoyed the meeting.

Had the pleasure of standing with Tai`s rels and the Wolves yam yam crew.

Thought the atmosphere was pretty good and the racing was much better there than on TV.

Although the stand out battles came across well.

My 1st time at Lynn since 96 and the track rode every bit as good as i remember.

No wonder the Poles loved it there.

If we wanted to go direct thru they should have had it at Monmore

 

The accident on the roundabout just as the meeting finished meant getting out the car park was well delayed, i didnt get on the road till 23.45!!!

 

Still these things happen.

 

Well done to the Kings Lynn management for providing a great platform for the teams fo perform on.

 

Think that the days of the Czech`s are well and truly over if they cant beat a 4 man Russian team.

[spook]

nw42, thank you for your welcome to the forums. I most certainly will be sticking around and hopefully making many more (what i hope will) contributions.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your welcome.

 

I would agree that riders who have gone down will stay down if it is to their advantage, but let's be honest who wouldn't?

I however do have trouble as i said with the belief that riders go down on purpose knowing the risk of injuries they may incur, unless we are now saying they are stunt riders too and can guarantee a controlled fall.

When you talk about Nicki Pedersen being on the ground more than most it is not something i have taken note of, but hey you might be right. However when you talk about playing percentages you are suggesting a rider, Nicki in this instance plays with a lot of unknowns and in the mains come up trumps. If he didn't he wouldn't play the percentages after all!! I feel there are two many unknowns in this scenario for profit, you would have had to study the ref well enough to hedge your bet which way he would rule. You would have to be able to fall in a controlled manner insuring your risk of injury was minimal. And if you have a conscience you would have to know or be 99% certain your opponent would not be hurt.

The Americans may well have had a test to ensure riders could lay their bike down on purpose but as last night proved there are times when you have to lay your bike down to avoid a worse collision. Could this not be the reason it was ensured they could do this and not for the cynical reason you insinuate?

 

You are right to highlight the refs when it comes to Nicki ..... and tbh I think in seasons where he hasnt had fast machinery he has taken the attitude of wearing them down.....ie something like if he is involved in 10 incidents then at least 4 will go his way... regardless of if they should or not................... he has argued some ridiculous incidents in recent years and even told a ref that he wouldnt be his friend anymore ....... thankfully most of the refs seem to have kept their heads and not allowed him to get away with too much

 

tbh I think with Nicki it is as much his competitive nature and refusing to slip down the order that makes him place himself in some of the situations that he does than anything else.........at the very least it is entertaining for the viewer but like you mention there is nearly always a second rider risking injury as well

 

I've barely been on a motorbike in my life so understanding what it feels like to fall off controlled and uncontrolled doesnt come so naturally for me .....but it is easy to see the gains involved competitively when refs are reluctant to stop a race and make a judgement unless someone actually goes down.... it automatically gives riders incentive... especially at the top level

 

re: The Americans... it was of course for safety and I wasnt insinuating anything tbh .... I guess I was just illustrating that these guys have the ability to deliberately get off the bike if they choose to

 

I'd like to think in a parallel universe somewhere that i'm a speedway rider .... if I was, I think i'd be ignoring that particular % game in preference of the Hancock approach... stay fit and stay fast

 

 

You are correct, just as stunt men can fall off a bike without injuring themselves, riders know when it is relatively safe to drop the bike and yes, in some countries riders are taught to lay the bike down, something that should be done here.

 

You would never see a rider go headlong into the fence (ie, straight on) to get a re-run because that would be crazy

 

makes me think of that unbelievable Bob Cole's crash

 

 

 

I'm sure you are right about the Americans and laying the bike down, it should be part of every riders training really, it may save a life sometime considering it's the quickest way to bring the bike to a halt, look at last night, but for the skill of the Russian it could have been very nasty for Scott Nicholls, there are plenty of other instances where the skill of the rider following a faller has avoided serious injury for both. The problem is that, as you say, some riders use their laying down skills to their advantage, I don't know how you could stop them though.

 

It was very impressive and Scott must be counting his blessings

 

I'm not sure much can be done to stop them except for relying on refs to keep order......... the trouble with that IMHO is that a couple of refs cant be relied on to remain impartial

[Guest JoLouBurn]

[tbh I think with Nicki it is as much his competitive nature and refusing to slip down the order that makes him place himself in some of the situations that he does than anything else.........at the very least it is entertaining for the viewer but like you mention there is nearly always a second rider risking injury as well]

 

Nicki rides hard, noone would deny that i don't think. Yes he certainly rides to win and i sometimes cringe how close he gets and at the risks he takes. However i still do not believe he plays the percentages as has been suggested. He is far too busy to be studying what refs make what decisions and whether he can use that to his advantage.

 

When it comes to appearances sometimes they can be decieving. A rider has a split second decision to make when he feels he may be in danger of hurting himself or others. So sometimes what appears to us as an intentional put down of a bike for gain maybe was just a split decision for the rider. It is all well and good to say in hindsight 'he didn't need to put the bike down and he must have done it on purpose' but when you are there in the mix of four riders and you feel you or others may be in danger you have seconds to decide what you are going to do. On some occasions it may be the wrong decision but hey nobodies perfect.

 

I don't want to harp on about this though and become a drag so i'll leave it on this note. A planned putting down of the bike for gain could end up in a broken collar bone, leg etc etc and even mean end of your season riding. Playing percentages is too big a risk for these guys.

[Bagpuss]

Having it slicker on the inside and grippier on the outside is something Buster has been doing this season, dunno why, someone ask him, MB??

Not quite to that degree though, there was nothing at all on the inside after the first set of races. The track has been different this year I agree, I expect its prepared as the riders want it and the racing has been excellent, I just felt that on Monday the action didn't reach those heights. As I said earlier the tractor is usually out every 2-3 heats normally so it must have been difficult to keep it tip top on Monday with a grading break after every five races. I feel like I'm being harsh because there were several decent heats but last year's SWC event saw passing on every part of the track and the round-the-boards line was prevalent only towards the end of the night. As others have said I think the gulf between the teams didn't help either, last year the scores were much closer as were the abilities of the riders in each race generally speaking.

[Paleco]

Taken from sportowefakty:

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=sl&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.si&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/2011/07/12/dps-sajfutdinow-i-laguta-w-skladzie-rosjan-na-baraz-w-gorzow/&usg=ALkJrhj4xVD3iz1qB4BncTjSWwJnE4GFBw

[fullbore]

Firstly anyone who would suggest a rider would put their bike down or fall off on purpose must be absolutely crazy!

 

Up to a point, riders do lay their bikes down in order to avoid running into a fallen bike/rider in front. Call it the lesser of 2 evils to decide to come off in as controlled a manner as possible.

 

Niamh