albyhere Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Knowing the lines once the race is in full flow i.e. after the second bend. Simply put, though, I feel that you demeaning his performance particulary in view of the fact that this was his first meeting back from injury, which was clearly aggravated after landing on the deck three times. Also if Kennett hadn't had a moment of madness, Woffinden would be British Champion. At last. Someone gets the point. I highlighted three occasions where Tai would have almost certainly been British Champion had it NOT been for these events. (Incidentally I say "would HAVE," not "would OF" as one of my critics kept saying.) The 1st race where he was marginally in front and on his way. The 2nd where he was taken out when in the lead, and the 3rd where Harris (no typos that time) jumped the start. There is another matter I'd bring up. We now are so used to having this 4/5 races then a semi, then a final. All for TV's benefit. None of which I agree with. If it wasn't for that, Tai Woffinden would, and should have been a worthy and deserving champion due to his immaculate 15 points unbeaten tally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Like Nichols said the winner of Heat 22 is all that mattered to him on the night,Well Done Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Plus the sky team did say Tai was just taking it easy going into the first bend as he fell earlier!!!! on his shoulder. Nicholls was a worthy winner,the grand prixs are run on a similar basis. Nicholls was the winner under the rules, but neccesarily worthy of it. The GP's are a series of 11 meetings, so bad luck can be evened out over the series. The British Final is a one-off meeting and in my view shouldn't be decided in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 One thing which was very strange last night was the updates were showing the following info BEFORE the final: 1st: GP Wild Card 2nd 3rd: GP reserve 4th: GP reserve I remember looking at that and thinking, that's saying that Harris will definitely be 2nd in the final! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Don't think you can say who would have won if decided over the 20 qualifying heats - the likes of Harris, Nicholls & Richardson would have been well aware that they needed to score circa 10 points to reach the semi ie 5 second places. They didn't need to try and break a leg or knock somebody off in the qualifying heats, it would have been nice to score a full maximum going into the final, but it wasn't strictly necessary. Just look at Nicholls in the final, he showed far more agression and speed than earlier in the meeting, because he had to and because thats when it mattered. Disagree that Tai would have won if everybody hadn't crashed in the first running of the final, he made it to the corner at the same time as Kennett and Scott, there is no telling what would have happened. Also disagree that Tai would necessarily have won if Kennett hadn't been silly - it appeared that Eddie had more speed than Tai in the final (hence he came from behind) and could quite reasonably have beaten him if not for cocking it up. Also can't see how you can say that Tai would have won if not for Harris jumping the start, agree that it should have been pulled back, but you can't say that Tai would have definitely gated and won the race - who would have thought that harris would lose the lead that he had to Nicholls? Finally, congratulations to Scott - as Sam Ermolenko once said, you've got to be in it to win it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Authorised Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 At last. Someone gets the point. I highlighted three occasions where Tai would have almost certainly been British Champion had it NOT been for these events. (Incidentally I say "would HAVE," not "would OF" as one of my critics kept saying.) The 1st race where he was marginally in front and on his way. The 2nd where he was taken out when in the lead, and the 3rd where Harris (no typos that time) jumped the start. There is another matter I'd bring up. We now are so used to having this 4/5 races then a semi, then a final. All for TV's benefit. None of which I agree with. If it wasn't for that, Tai Woffinden would, and should have been a worthy and deserving champion due to his immaculate 15 points unbeaten tally. Nicholls was the winner under the rules, but neccesarily worthy of it. The GP's are a series of 11 meetings, so bad luck can be evened out over the series. The British Final is a one-off meeting and in my view shouldn't be decided in the same way. Everyone knew the rules, one heat is where it matters. British Riders need to get used to these and it is an accepted format of GP Racing. However, if the point of this thread was Tai is the real winner, or should have been, it could have been strengthened by highlighting previous British Finals where the same happened. For instance, last year, Scott got 14pts and qualified 1st. Either way, Tai had a massive home advantage. I am not complaining about it though, but if you are to talk of taking advantages, he had it the entire night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albyhere Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Everyone knew the rules, one heat is where it matters. British Riders need to get used to these and it is an accepted format of GP Racing. However, if the point of this thread was Tai is the real winner, or should have been, it could have been strengthened by highlighting previous British Finals where the same happened. For instance, last year, Scott got 14pts and qualified 1st. Either way, Tai had a massive home advantage. I am not complaining about it though, but if you are to talk of taking advantages, he had it the entire night! ...as in, he and only he knew that track well. Yeah right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Don't think you can say who would have won if decided over the 20 qualifying heats - the likes of Harris, Nicholls & Richardson would have been well aware that they needed to score circa 10 points to reach the semi ie 5 second places. They didn't need to try and break a leg or knock somebody off in the qualifying heats, it would have been nice to score a full maximum going into the final, but it wasn't strictly necessary. Just look at Nicholls in the final, he showed far more agression and speed than earlier in the meeting, because he had to and because thats when it mattered. Disagree that Tai would have won if everybody hadn't crashed in the first running of the final, he made it to the corner at the same time as Kennett and Scott, there is no telling what would have happened. Also disagree that Tai would necessarily have won if Kennett hadn't been silly - it appeared that Eddie had more speed than Tai in the final (hence he came from behind) and could quite reasonably have beaten him if not for cocking it up.Also can't see how you can say that Tai would have won if not for Harris jumping the start, agree that it should have been pulled back, but you can't say that Tai would have definitely gated and won the race - who would have thought that harris would lose the lead that he had to Nicholls? Finally, congratulations to Scott - as Sam Ermolenko once said, you've got to be in it to win it! How is it reasonable to suggest that Kennett would have beaten Tai when he had already lost to him previously in the meeting, was behind him in this heat, and Tai hadn't dropped a point all evening ? Still haven't got over Tai not signing for the Tigers ? Time to move on I think ! Edited June 7, 2011 by Beowulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottrocks Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 To be fair, home advantage aside, Tai rode well and you can't detract from that. Have I come onto an anti-Tai forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Knowing the lines once the race is in full flow i.e. after the second bend. Simply put, though, I feel that you demeaning his performance particulary in view of the fact that this was his first meeting back from injury, which was clearly aggravated after landing on the deck three times. Also if Kennett hadn't had a moment of madness, Woffinden would be British Champion. Your original point, to which I replied, asked how having home advantage was an advantage. That's what was originally answered. I'm not demeaning Tai's performance and earlier in the thread said how well he had done especially carrying an injury. So you made that up in your own head. It wasnt Tai's first meeting back as he rode in a challenge and Test matches this week. Youve got that wrong. Kennett didnt have a moment of madness,it was a clean pass, but he did a 180. well done to scott nicholls on his 6th title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Your original point, to which I replied, asked how having home advantage was an advantage. That's what was originally answered. I'm not demeaning Tai's performance and earlier in the thread said how well he had done especially carrying an injury. So you made that up in your own head. It wasnt Tai's first meeting back as he rode in a challenge and Test matches this week. Youve got that wrong. Kennett didnt have a moment of madness,it was a clean pass, but he did a 180. well done to scott nicholls on his 6th title I had indeed forgotten about the test matches, although it was his first full home meeting back, 1 ride against Peterborough. I apologise for my earlier comments, and have probably been responding to the wrong person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Authorised Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) ...as in, he and only he knew that track well. Yeah right. I am not anti-Tai, but your ramblings don't make much sense. Don't you know the difference between home and away track advantage??? Why do you think Home teams in speedway win so much??? Regardless, if it had been at Eastbourne, I would have expected Kennett and Bridger to have been dominant etc... "even though everyone knows Arlington well". Ben Barker at Plymouth etc.... geddit?? I am not saying Tai wouldn't show up well elsewhere, I am sure he would do OK to well. If you ask any rider would they prefer their home track to Wolves OR get a rerun in a particular heat at Wolves OR get one rolling start at Wolves and not get called back, they would of course, answer "Yes, I want it at my home track, it is to my advantage!" Edited June 7, 2011 by Authorised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljack Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Fantastic win Scott Nicholls from the best rider on show by far. Just goes to show home advantage dont always win the rider the championship or being a dud in the gp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I am not anti-Tai, but your ramblings don't make much sense. Don't you know the difference between home and away track advantage??? Why do you think Home teams in speedway win so much??? Regardless, if it had been at Eastbourne, I would have expected Kennett and Bridger to have been dominant etc... "even though everyone knows Arlington well". Ben Barker at Plymouth etc.... geddit?? I am not saying Tai wouldn't show up well elsewhere, I am sure he would do OK to well. If you ask any rider would they prefer their home track to Wolves OR get a rerun in a particular heat at Wolves OR get one rolling start at Wolves and not get called back, they would of course, answer "Yes, I want it at my home track, it is to my advantage!" Harris would still have chosen Wolves over his home track. Nicholls may well have done so too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I believe this meeting will be the making of Tai. His interview after the meeting was a breathe of fresh air. 2 years ago it'd have been 'not fair, referee's a idiot, Kennett will get his etc etc.' A much more mature attitude to adversity, well done that man I'm probably in the minority by now but I don't care if it was Scott, Bomber, Kennett, Tai or Uncle Tom Cobbly who scored 5 race wins, they should be the champion, this race off/final stuff just ruins it for me. You do 20 imperious laps, beating allcomers then get mugged in a one off final. The idea of the GPs we are told is to find the most consistent man over a season, anyone can have a mare and recover. Whereas with the BF format it's the exact opposite. Wheel perfect for 5 races, all over in 30 yards. Total contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 The idea of the GPs we are told is to find the most consistent man over a season, anyone can have a mare and recover. Whereas with the BF format it's the exact opposite. Wheel perfect for 5 races, all over in 30 yards. Total contradiction. the GP format also conflicts itself as it uses a similar format to the British Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albyhere Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 the GP format also conflicts itself as it uses a similar format to the British Final. Jeez. If I say 'black is black' would that be right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpartialOne Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Jeez. If I say 'black is black' would that be right? You didn't say anything, Wolfsbane did. What's upset you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Fantastic win Scott Nicholls from the best rider on show by far. Just goes to show home advantage dont always win the rider the championship or being a dud in the gp But Nicholls was a dud in the GP's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I agree that Scott had some good fortune last night but in other years things have gone against him. He delivered when it mattered most so well done to him, a worthy winner in my opinion! Tai was also great last night and his time will no doubt come very soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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