The Know Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are. Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer. Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit. But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently. not sure about him being the best, more to do with being polish i feel. good rider but will crack under pressure when results dont come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 think i am turning anti polish Oh come on, the Ferrari deserves the occasional Turtle Wax treat, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Oh come on, the Ferrari deserves the occasional Turtle Wax treat, doesn't it? ya got me there no you have to use harly wax much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are. Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer. Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit. But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently. imho its not disimilar to the world championship format discussion ..... what we would like to be the case is not always what is practical, good, or likely to happen ideally on paper I would like to see the top 16 riders.... if riders from a particular nation dont make it then they know where the bar is that they have to work towards........................ but commercial interests dont always fit in with this and it is easy to see in the case of IMG and the SGP, that it doesnt in some cases we have had the two strongest lineups ever with a policy of quota .....so they must be doing a lot of things right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Does anyone remember the first couple of years in the GPs? My memory is a bit vague, but wasn't it something like a permanent eighteen riders, with the bottom two at a GP being replaced for the next GP and so on? I'm not against the concept of "wild cards" per se. Three "wild cards" have won GPs, although the most recent example was Hans Andersen in 2006, but with the expansion of the series as much as its professional evolution, too many are simply not competitive. The simple fact, whether people like it or not, is that in recent seasons the "wild cards" most likely to be able to compete have been Poles. Is it? Tell me, Mr Rising, did you raise your voice against the numerous "iffy" nominations handed out to Nicholls and Harris, when the old "two Brits" is sacrosanct reigned supreme at BSI? By the way, I notice you haven't favoured us with your opinion. Waiting for Paul Bellamy to give you it? , ABSOLUTELY, if that's what you want to believe and it makes you feel better. As David Cameron might say, calm down dear, calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 The answer to that is a matter of opinion ... not fact. Some will say yes, others will say no. So, it doesn't make it right or wrong. Think it's fair enough to have a local wildcard where the host nation has one or no regular GP riders, but otherwise it should go to the next available standby rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Think it's fair enough to have a local wildcard where the host nation has one or no regular GP riders, but otherwise it should go to the next available standby rider. Agree + disagree.The first part is fine....but the standyby riders are generally no big deal.If there is a real inform rider like Darcy Ward is,then i think they should get a go.And if they hold their own amongst the regular GP riders then i think they should get another....It also goes back to the statement that spook ideally wants the best 16 riders....but how are you going to get that?Holding qualis the year before won't get you the best 16 riders of that year let alone the year after.One or two will lose form and someone else will improve...If we are going to have the best in form rider getting the WC(apart from those countries where financially a local is needed),then that to me is the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) It also goes back to the statement that spook ideally wants the best 16 riders....but how are you going to get that? Who the best 16 riders are, is another one of those things that's a matter of opinion. I also think having qualifiers is necessary to ensure variety, and that the whole thing doesn't become stale as it did a couple of seasons ago. Whether a distinct qualifying competition is the best way of doing it I don't know, but if those that just missed out on the SGP knew they could still get a wildcard opportunity, it might add more interest to the whole thing. Edited May 4, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I think the qualifiers are necessary as well for variety although I dont think they usually provide us with the best 16 like Iris says... I think the top 16 is and always will be an impossible dream but there is the opportunity with the WC on the night to make things a bit more spicy Iris123 said: If we are going to have the best in form rider getting the WC(apart from those countries where financially a local is needed),then that to me is the best solution. this seems the most sensible to me although I do think that a maximum quota amount should also be a factor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've no problem with Darcy Ward getting a "wild card" gig, but other riders have also enjoyed fine starts to the season, such as Grigory Laguta, Matej Zagar and Adrian Miedzinski. To my mind you either have one policy or the other. You either go local, or you go with the one of the best available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've no problem with Darcy Ward getting a "wild card" gig, but other riders have also enjoyed fine starts to the season, such as Grigory Laguta, Matej Zagar and Adrian Miedzinski. To my mind you either have one policy or the other. You either go local, or you go with the one of the best available. Zagar has had his chance.Miedzinski i can't see him ever being anything more than a "making up the number" rider in the Protasiewicz mould.I wish Grigory had qualified rather than his little brother,but he didn't.Ward has the makings of a top rider.But having said that i wouldn't have anything against Grigory getting a chance this season.But he has had a few already.Ward hasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Zagar has had his chance.Miedzinski i can't see him ever being anything more than a "making up the number" rider in the Protasiewicz mould.I wish Grigory had qualified rather than his little brother,but he didn't.Ward has the makings of a top rider.But having said that i wouldn't have anything against Grigory getting a chance this season.But he has had a few already.Ward hasn't Nicholls has also had his chances. I don't necessarily disagree with your assessments of Zagar and Miedzinski, but what about the merits of Kennett? I'd quite like to see someone like Bogdanovs having a go in Prague and Ward giving it gas in Cardiff. Edited May 4, 2011 by ladyluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Zagar has had his chance.Miedzinski i can't see him ever being anything more than a "making up the number" rider in the Protasiewicz mould.I wish Grigory had qualified rather than his little brother,but he didn't.Ward has the makings of a top rider.But having said that i wouldn't have anything against Grigory getting a chance this season.But he has had a few already.Ward hasn't Can't see both Laguta brothers riding in the same GP , as apperently they have only one decent bike between them . As their respective scores in domestic league meetings bears out . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellyman Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Can't see both Laguta brothers riding in the same GP , as apperently they have only one decent bike between them . As their respective scores in domestic league meetings bears out . What's the score with Artem not having any sponsorship anywhere on his bike or kevlars in the GP? Is he some sort of rich kid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Nicholls has also had his chances. I don't necessarily disagree with your assessments of Zagar and Miedzinski, but what about the merits of Kennett? I'd quite like to see someone like Bogdanovs having a go in Prague and Ward giving it gas in Cardiff. I have said it before.In my opinion there isn't a British rider outside of Harris that deserves being in a GP.That said,we would be kidding ourselves to think the British GP would only have 1 Brit and a foreign wildcard.Ain't likely to happen unless the next best Brit was Deek Sneddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 What's the score with Artem not having any sponsorship anywhere on his bike or kevlars in the GP? Is he some sort of rich kid? I think he'd have a bit better gear if he were a "rich kid". I don't think Laguta is in the Jonsson-Pavlic league when it comes to familial dosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 ... unless the next best Brit was Deek Sneddon Desperate Deek. Now there's someone to sort out the Russian nutter for June01. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June01 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Desperate Deek. Now there's someone to sort out the Russian nutter for June01. Bring him on. Let's have Nermark, Piszcz, Buczkowski and Ben Barker while you're at it. I don't mind the Wild Cards if they are top class riders who aren't in the GPs, but the likes of Balinski...just don't seem worth it. Sacrilege. Edited May 4, 2011 by June01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyluck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Bring him on. Let's have Nermark, Piszcz, Buczkowski and Ben Barker while you're at it. I suppose they could fence him as he laps them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I don't mind the Wild Cards if they are top class riders who aren't in the GPs, but the likes of Balinski and Jonasson just don't seem worth it. Would that be the same Jonasson who was the highest scoring wild card last season with the exception of Kolodziej, and the same Jonasson who has qualified 2nd in line for the SGP this year should there be injuries? Looking at scores so far this season, Grigorij Laguta is the stand out rider who surely deserves a wildcard. I guess he is probably unlikely to receive one due to his Nationality, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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