Wild Cards,time To Stop?

[Gearhead]

Is there any real advantage of the meeting wilddcard? At the recent GP would Balinski have put many more on the gate and is there any GP where thus would be a significant advantage? It seems that they are often off the pace or when they are ok,are they taking points off riders which is unfair? Maybe its a race where the better riders gain easier points and they are fine with it but its harder for the lesser riders,what's the general view?

[Robbie B]

I'd rather have sixteen riders competing the World Championship any day, then a having a different wild card, at the GP meetings.

[Paulco]

I suppose the " wildcard " is really for speedway backwaters like Italy , Croatia and Great Britain to have some added local interest during the meeting , regardless of whether they are out of their depth or not .

Balinski rides for the local club where Saturday night's GP was held , therefore there was some logic in his inclusion .

[spook]

I guess the issue with the wildcards these days is the level of machinery and mental approach.......... look at 95% of the races and you can lay a blanket over the riders in the first few bends... to not only be ready for that but also succeed seems to take time in the competition........... machinery also seems to be a factor and while the top 15 use their 'gp bikes' what is the wildcard using?

 

With danger of waking up our resident Darcy cheerleader ..... Ward is a perfect current example of why the wildcards are a better thing than 16 official riders........ now that they have changed policy and reverted back to something like it used to be where they can choose any rider from any country ....Darcy should be given his chance asap

 

I believe it is countries like Italy and Croatia who are the reason for the rule change..... as it will now mean that riders wont be half a lap behind like in Italy last season........ and while I wouldnt disagree that Great Britain has become a 2nd rate speedway country... I think it is in need of a wildcard that will put bums on seats (probably needs to be British)

 

I would be happy with a system where Darcy for instance was given a chance and depending on results stayed in for the next GP......... i'm not sure that there are ever that many riders out there unincluded who are possible top 8/12 standard

Edited May 4, 2011 by spook

[ladyluck]

I believe it is countries like Italy and Croatia who are the reason for the rule change.....

 

What about the Czechs? I only ask because it looks like Matej Kus is heading for the Prague "wild card". Interestingly, it seems the organisors in Prague have nominated Rafal Dobrucki as first "track reserve" for the event.

[spook]

yes I think I would include the Czechs in that category......

 

Even if it meant another 5 Pole GP Rafal would be a far better choice than Matej who already on paper looks like he will struggle to stay on the pace.....

 

If that route is going to be taken though I would much prefer to see younger form riders like Ward & Pawlicki given some experience as I believe one issue in the SGP is the sheer experience of some which can lead to them being limpets ..... and Dobrucki isnt likely to change that in the long term

 

when you say 'heading for the Prague wildcard' what leads you to believe that?

Edited May 4, 2011 by spook

[ladyluck]

when you say 'heading for the Prague wildcard' what leads you to believe that?

 

It means I'm not a hundred percent sure that he will be. I gather the organisors have nominated him and sportowefakty.pl seems to think he'll get it, but there's been nothing official.

However, don't you compromise your own argument with your comments about the Cardiff "wild card"? Last season Nicholls was one of the poorer "wild cards" in terms of performance, so why should Britain be any different than Croatia, Italy and the Czech Republic? Philip Rising talks of Darcy Ward being given the "wild card" at one of Poland's three GPs, yet Poland, as the strongest nation currently, is the nation best placed to provide decent nominees for a "wild card".

[JCookie]

I don't mind the Wild Cards if they are top class riders who aren't in the GPs, but the likes of Balinski and Jonasson just don't seem worth it.

[PHILIPRISING]

It means I'm not a hundred percent sure that he will be. I gather the organisors have nominated him and sportowefakty.pl seems to think he'll get it, but there's been nothing official.

However, don't you compromise your own argument with your comments about the Cardiff "wild card"? Last season Nicholls was one of the poorer "wild cards" in terms of performance, so why should Britain be any different than Croatia, Italy and the Czech Republic? Philip Rising talks of Darcy Ward being given the "wild card" at one of Poland's three GPs, yet Poland, as the strongest nation currently, is the nation best placed to provide decent nominees for a "wild card".

 

LET's face it ... the concept of wild cards was conceived with commercial interests at heart. Torun will be a sell-out, there are (injury permitting) four Poles already competing, there is no need for another Polish rider to sell more tickets. Darcy Ward has no home GP at which he could be afforded a wild card, he is a two-time World Under 21 Champion, his Polish contract is with Torun and he is arguably the best rider currently outside GP.

 

Pavlic can hold his own in Croatia and the real problem is Italy, where the wild cards in recent years have been embarrassing. Castagna could probably do better even now. Perhaps there is a case for Ward at both Torun and Terenzano.

[ladyluck]

Darcy Ward has no home GP at which he could be afforded a wild card, he is a two-time World Under 21 Champion, his Polish contract is with Torun and he is arguably the best rider currently outside GP.

 

His contract may be with Torun, but he rides for Gdansk.

Adrian Miedzinski, on the other hand, has a contract with and rides for the Torun club and he is one of the best riders not in the GPs. Why should Miedzinski miss out in Torun and some British duffer take a place at Cardiff? Surely Cardiff would be a suitable "wild card" location for Ward?

Edited May 4, 2011 by ladyluck

[spook]

It means I'm not a hundred percent sure that he will be. I gather the organisors have nominated him and sportowefakty.pl seems to think he'll get it, but there's been nothing official.

However, don't you compromise your own argument with your comments about the Cardiff "wild card"? Last season Nicholls was one of the poorer "wild cards" in terms of performance, so why should Britain be any different than Croatia, Italy and the Czech Republic? Philip Rising talks of Darcy Ward being given the "wild card" at one of Poland's three GPs, yet Poland, as the strongest nation currently, is the nation best placed to provide decent nominees for a "wild card".

 

I think you see what you want to see Ladyluck lol

 

what I actually said about Cardiff in reply to the previous posters was

 

I believe it is countries like Italy and Croatia who are the reason for the rule change..... as it will now mean that riders wont be half a lap behind like in Italy last season........ and while I wouldnt disagree that Great Britain has become a 2nd rate speedway country... I think it is in need of a wildcard that will put bums on seats (probably needs to be British)

 

So no I havent compromised anything...... the WC in Italy was literally half a lap behind..... this quite obviously cant be defended and quite obviously didnt go down well with IMG and is probably why they have changed policy

 

These coals have already been raked over in this section and as much as you dislike things British it is not going to change one iota that IMG have already conceded their unspoken policy of more than one Brit permanently in the competition and 3+ at Cardiff... and are unlikely to concede much further in the short term............. the bottom line is that Cardiff is their flagship and they will do everything in their power to make sure that it is successful..... until the day that they believe it will happen with Joe Bloggs from Australia/Poland/etc and we don't have riders capable of reasonably staying on the pace i'd imagine the Cardiff WC's will remain British

 

re: Darcy/Poland I suggest you take up your point/argument with Philip then...... although it isnt difficult to work out why Poland is a possibility when they already have 4 in the competition... and this very subject goes full circle back to gearhead's opening post

 

re: Matej WC...... I guess we will learn a lot more this year of what the future intentions are with WC's ...... I should imagine the tracks will continue to nominate in the same way.... doesnt mean it will happen though

Edited May 4, 2011 by spook

[PHILIPRISING]

His contract may be with Torun, but he rides for Gdansk.

Adrian Miedzinski, on the other hand, has a contract with and rides for the Torun club and he is one of the best riders not in the GPs. Why should Miedzinski miss out in Torun and some British duffer take a place at Cardiff? Surely Cardiff would be a suitable "wild card" location for Ward?

 

BECAUSE there are already four Polish riders at Torun and only one Brit at Cardiff ... it's the real world, whether you or I like it or not.

[ladyluck]

BECAUSE there are already four Polish riders at Torun and only one Brit at Cardiff ... it's the real world, whether you or I like it or not.

 

Is it right? Simple question.

[spook]

I swear you just come on here to troll

[PHILIPRISING]

Is it right? Simple question.

 

 

The answer to that is a matter of opinion ... not fact. Some will say yes, others will say no. So, it doesn't make it right or wrong.

[ladyluck]

The answer to that is a matter of opinion ... not fact. Some will say yes, others will say no. So, it doesn't make it right or wrong.

 

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

[jellyman]

I think this is one of those cases where times have changed.

 

It used to be the case that a wildcard could enter a GP and actually have a chance. However, due to the investment needed to be competitive in the GPs and the fact that the standards have got higher I don't think that this is the case any longer.

 

Maybe it's time to ditch the whole idea of wild cards and have an extra regular rider.

[PHILIPRISING]

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

 

YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are.

 

Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer.

 

Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

[ladyluck]

Does anyone remember the first couple of years in the GPs? My memory is a bit vague, but wasn't it something like a permanent eighteen riders, with the bottom two at a GP being replaced for the next GP and so on?

I'm not against the concept of "wild cards" per se. Three "wild cards" have won GPs, although the most recent example was Hans Andersen in 2006, but with the expansion of the series as much as its professional evolution, too many are simply not competitive. The simple fact, whether people like it or not, is that in recent seasons the "wild cards" most likely to be able to compete have been Poles.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

 

Is it? Tell me, Mr Rising, did you raise your voice against the numerous "iffy" nominations handed out to Nicholls and Harris, when the old "two Brits" is sacrosanct reigned supreme at BSI?

By the way, I notice you haven't favoured us with your opinion. Waiting for Paul Bellamy to give you it?

Edited May 4, 2011 by ladyluck

[The Know]

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

think i am turning anti polish