norwichkev Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 NL going rate is £10 a point. Cheers is a small amount anyway, and in most cases wouldn't cover even the basics of fuel/ oil etc certainly not a "job" wage. Principal is the same though could be £100 a point, 100% of nothing is nothing. Can't see it adding to the mass of Brits unemployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Cheers is a small amount anyway, and in most cases wouldn't cover even the basics of fuel/ oil etc certainly not a "job" wage. Principal is the same though could be £100 a point, 100% of nothing is nothing. Can't see it adding to the mass of Brits unemployed. Kev,you go on about how the Aussie lads put bums on seats at West row,Poole,Kurtz and in the event of,Heeps,im sure the cost of employing the likes of these lads doesnt come cheap,and with the Fen Tigers enjoying good crowds this year without them,you wonder if the financail risk is worth it,the year when the Poole and Kurtz were hardly good financial years were they,didnt you alomost close one year and did the next??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Morning Malcolm. Not sure what logic has failed anybody or how you have been proven right. At £5 a point I don't think that NL can be called a Job. HT, 2BP and BFD are spot on a) Numbers involved Raising standards amongst our own c) Entertainment and d) Supporters - all this in a depressed market where finances are tight. At the moment in the NL we have teams struggling to find reserves - e.g. IOW for one, reserve riders who are coming in half a lap behind week after week - then only getting 3 rides because the other can be used to take extra rides and score more points, allegations of riders being sacked for not turning up. Hardly reasons to shout success and take a bow eh! Bit of a poor shot about people not caring about Brits just because they do not share your blinkered view. The Empire has gone Malcolm, if you think deeeeply about the benefits of our colonial cousins for well thought out reasons as laid out by BFD you might just start to get it. U15's? Not something that I have followed apart from attending the odd event a) What crowds turn up at Look at the last 3-4 years where is the big influx into the sport? Ashley Morris has done well, Brandon was the stand out star a couple of years back and half this season on is only just beginning to get up to speed. Sam Woods has bucked the trend and made the effort and is over learning his craft in Denmark as we speak, if he can do it why can't others? Two thoughts that you do not appear to consider - 1)if the current base of U.K. youngsters ready for NL are that good then why are Promoters / Fans wanting to bring people from overseas over? 2) Most Aussie's have more "Brit" in them than a lot of the current U.K. population - so who are you claiming as ours? Stand back, smell the coffee and take a look at some of the crowds out there and read the forums on why people do not attend the NL - logic says that if the trend continues teams will close and we could end up having Brit team managers unemployed Some good points, the main one being there are just not enough British riders to go around that are good enough for the NL. It is a major concern and has been for a few years the numbers keep decreasing and certain teams are struggling for riders. My feelings are the Aussies bring some colour in to the league and limited properly are good for business. However it was decided that they would be ruled out this year so we just have to get on with that we have got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Kev,you go on about how the Aussie lads put bums on seats at West row,Poole,Kurtz and in the event of,Heeps,im sure the cost of employing the likes of these lads doesnt come cheap,and with the Fen Tigers enjoying good crowds this year without them,you wonder if the financail risk is worth it,the year when the Poole and Kurtz were hardly good financial years were they,didnt you alomost close one year and did the next??? Cant speak for all the aussies but Robert cost Buxton 10 pounds per point,and Jayne will verify that, any other costs were met by us. Chopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some good points, the main one being there are just not enough British riders to go around that are good enough for the NL. The team sheet for Kingslynn tommorrow night does not show a lack of riders good enough for the NL i dont think I remember a couple of posts from a while ago,from whom i cant remember,saying they wouldnt turn up to watch there teams race when the Saints were visiting as the team was full of rookie wobblers!!! If you take these rookie wobblers and look at them now,the saints could have gone into the NL this year with a team of Howarth,Morris,Worrall,Worrall,Birks,Irving and Wrathall, Not a bad team or group or riders that for a bunch of rookie Wobblers,is here a team in the NL 2011 who could beat them??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Cant speak for all the aussies but Robert cost Buxton 10 pounds per point,and Jayne will verify that, any other costs were met by us. Chopper Chopper,yes and fair play to them,they remain in business,viable and entertaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljack Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 It has to be remembered that riding against young foreign riders will bring the British lads on. So banning all foreign riders in the NI is not a good idea for British riders and the all so important fans who miss out seeing them. Just riding against riders of their own ability gives the impression a rider is doing better than he actually is. Banning Heeps riding at Mildenhall this season was very petty, after all are not Australia in the Commonwealth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichkev Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) The team sheet for Kingslynn tommorrow night does not show a lack of riders good enough for the NL i dont think I remember a couple of posts from a while ago,from whom i cant remember,saying they wouldnt turn up to watch there teams race when the Saints were visiting as the team was full of rookie wobblers!!! If you take these rookie wobblers and look at them now,the saints could have gone into the NL this year with a team of Howarth,Morris,Worrall,Worrall,Birks,Irving and Wrathall, Not a bad team or group or riders that for a bunch of rookie Wobblers,is here a team in the NL 2011 who could beat them??? Very good side that would have been unquestionably, BUT there are not enough to go around at this moment in time. I remember the "wobbler" comments that were used in a manner that suggested that if you did not support these then you were anti Bits etc, etc - a bit like some correspondants on here peddling the line that if you want e.g. a young Aussie in the NL then by implication you must by anti young Brits. Good rhetoric but of course complete nonsense. Forget "Wobblers" every rider at some stage must have been one. Some riders can be smooth but not on the pace, have the wrong inner thinking and some will reach a stage where it will be apparent that they will not cut the mustard - in itself that is a place taken that will not help the development process. Finance wise as Chopper has said I have not heard of any NL Aussie being paid over the odds although not saying it does not happen. The fact that these guys come all of this way to further develop shows their drive, ambition and commitment - the NL should be using this as a stage to contract these guys to ensure that they get a return as they move up the Leagues, this in turn would help fund operations. Mildy NL financial difficulties are well documented were driven by an unfortunate set of family circumstances, but I totally agree financial implications are paramount. It's at a different level so not an easy comparison but P'Boro bringng n Nikki P and Coventry bringing in Emil ( hope financially the get it right )- I and others will go to both to see them, same as I went to RH to see Garrity ( shame he broke down on route ). It's all about promoting interest. Read the forums though and see how many fans openly admitted to coming back to West Row just to see firstly Dakota and secondly Taylor, also great to see Ben Hopwood go out at Rye with Cameron in the second half - competition in young Brits is what we need. Agree 100% with Jayne's post though, we have to play by the rules - but maybe the rules are inhibitive and not in best interests of NL as a whole. Edited June 14, 2011 by norwichkev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 The team sheet for Kingslynn tommorrow night does not show a lack of riders good enough for the NL i dont think I remember a couple of posts from a while ago,from whom i cant remember,saying they wouldnt turn up to watch there teams race when the Saints were visiting as the team was full of rookie wobblers!!! If you take these rookie wobblers and look at them now,the saints could have gone into the NL this year with a team of Howarth,Morris,Worrall,Worrall,Birks,Irving and Wrathall, Not a bad team or group or riders that for a bunch of rookie Wobblers,is here a team in the NL 2011 who could beat them??? Well said!....that is fact....plus we had other riders to select a No. 8.......The list is long of riders whos come through the ranks and started their NL racing at Scunny......We are doing something right!.....Well don Rob Godfrey and Richard Hollinsworth, and not forgetting Mr Vassey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendpostie Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Someone else who cant conduct a discussion without a nasty comment. What the hell has my ego got to do with it. I am a true Brit you clearly dont care about our lads. That has little to do with egos. I enjoyed the last few weeks of Norwich City's season and I expect you did too. Ego or no ego. Malcolm Vasey Not bothering to argue anymore about Brits and non Brits with you as we are obviously miles apart and we will never agree on it, but, if the football championship had used your rules, then Norwich City wouldnt be in the premiership as the goal that put them there was scored by a Canadian ! I can only hope next years agm, looks at this issue long hard and proffesionally as to my mind and many others on here, (including Jayne which suprised me a bit) it is wrong. Edited June 14, 2011 by 2ndbendpostie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Needles Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Not bothering to argue anymore about Brits and non Brits with you as we are obviously miles apart and we will never agree on it, but, if the football championship had used your rules, then Norwich City wouldnt be in the premiership as the goal that put them there was scored by a Canadian ! I can only hope next years agm, looks at this issue long hard and proffesionally as to my mind and many others on here, (including Jayne which suprised me a bit) it is wrong. Well said 2ndbendpostie. As (according to some) the NDL should be for those (British)riders trying to make their way in the sport, where does this leave riders like Jon Armstrong, who is most definitely not a youngster?! For what it's worth, the developing of British riders needs to start way, way earlier than the NDL. Ideally between the ages of six and eight. But that's probably best left to another thread entirely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) I supose it's plain simple the supporters wouldnt turn out in force to see the latest Brit rider like they would turn out to see the latest Aussie. Although Jason Garrity is bucking tha trend I've often said that foreign riders should get in the NL and the problem isn't with NL. The problem is with the leagues higher up there are too many Brit riders festering in the NL losing motivation by the day because there is nowhere for them to go and now with the points limit reduction some have found themselves out all together. Are there really that many impressive foreign riders in the PL? the simple truth is that a Brit rider has got to show virtually unbeatable form to get a place and keep it. The thing is that Cameron Heeps was destined to use the NL to get UK track knowledge ready for when he goes into the PL, leaving yet another Brit rider to fester so he can hit the ground running in PL. I say good luck to the chap not many lads would turn that kind of opportunity down and we shouldnt expect him to Edited June 14, 2011 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 I keep reading how you need the foreign lads to make the NL exciting as if it were the case that every foreign rider is a great prospect and exciting to watch while British riders aren't. Clearly that's not the case, some riders of any nationality are draw cards for crowds. Restricting the league to British riders is not going to create an influx of riders instantly. The U15 and Amatuer Speedway scenes are growing well at the moment. Given a couple of years where people become aware that the opportunities are there to progress from there into league racing and maybe it will attract more riders from other motorcycle disciplines to Speedway. Certainly as things were going less and less British lads were even contemplating riding Speedway, something needed to change for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 I keep reading how you need the foreign lads to make the NL exciting as if it were the case that every foreign rider is a great prospect and exciting to watch while British riders aren't. Clearly that's not the case, some riders of any nationality are draw cards for crowds. That is an exageration,which is ununsual for you.No-one any where is making such a statement.Point it out if someone is.What some people are saying,myself included is i can only see the benefit in including a limited number of foreign riders.Clearly that is easy to understand and not go OTT about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I've often said that foreign riders should get in the NL and the problem isn't with NL. The problem is with the leagues higher up there are too many Brit riders festering in the NL losing motivation by the day because there is nowhere for them to go and now with the points limit reduction some have found themselves out all together. Are there really that many impressive foreign riders in the PL? the simple truth is that a Brit rider has got to show virtually unbeatable form to get a place and keep it. I think that is the crux of the matter. Perhaps what it needs is a compulsory place in each NL team for an U16 competitor and a compulsory place in PL one for a British NL rider with a maximum age limit. I keep reading how you need the foreign lads to make the NL exciting as if it were the case that every foreign rider is a great prospect and exciting to watch while British riders aren't. Clearly that's not the case, some riders of any nationality are draw cards for crowds. Restricting the league to British riders is not going to create an influx of riders instantly. The U15 and Amatuer Speedway scenes are growing well at the moment. Given a couple of years where people become aware that the opportunities are there to progress from there into league racing and maybe it will attract more riders from other motorcycle disciplines to Speedway. Certainly as things were going less and less British lads were even contemplating riding Speedway, something needed to change for sure. I agree with Iris, Vince, in that I don't think anyone is saying that. However, it is undoubtedly true to suggest that the acquisition of Dakota North & Taylor Poole made a huge difference at Mildenhall, and I suspect that the same would be said of Mickey Dyer & Jake Anderson at Dudley & Nick Morris & Robert Branford at Buxton (for example). There were just 5 riders in the U15 championship last year and although there a lot more this year Jayne's point about lack of youngsters seems true to me. That's not the whole point, though. There is a balance between viability and development (lets face it if stand alone clubs are not viable development will be halved) and for that reason I firmly believe that there is a case to allow limited numbers of foreign riders into the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Getting rid of the patriality rule would help... These youngsters live in Australia and would ride for Australia if they became good enough. Leave the reserve positions for British riders only - that would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Saw Heeps last night in the second half at Lynn, looks a tidy little rider although perhaps the weight of expectation being placed on his shoulders by aljack with regards to the Witches next year might be a little unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trev Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Three second half races at KL last night; 1. 1st Alex Davies,2nd Brenton Barnfield,3rd Cameron Heeps,4th Adam Kirby 2. same same same same 3. same same Cam and Adam did not come out. Alex looked sharp (was told after he is now with Plymouth ?), Brenton and Cam looked tidy and on the pace, Adam a little slower than the Aussies. Edited June 16, 2011 by trev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Some good points, the main one being there are just not enough British riders to go around that are good enough for the NL. It is a major concern and has been for a few years the numbers keep decreasing and certain teams are struggling for riders. My feelings are the Aussies bring some colour in to the league and limited properly are good for business. However it was decided that they would be ruled out this year so we just have to get on with that we have got. Exactly Jane I haven't seen anyone on here suggesting 3 or 4 Aussies per team, we all want to see young Brits improve and progress, but as you say limited (One per team?) Aussies do add colour to the league and have been proven to help stand alone clubs crowds which must be good for the overall success of the National League. Those that are most vociferous against any Australian riders in the NL, hide behind the fact that it stops the progression and opportunity for Young Brits, however they don't want to argue that some of the elder statesmen in the NL are doing exactly the same so why not ban them to?? It is a legitimate arguement and a fact, although not one I would personally support. These same people also don't want to point the finger at the real culprit, the Premier League promoters who continue to load their sides with overseas riders, especially those that use these riders in the reserve berths. There are a number of riders, currently in the NL, who showed considerable potential, but due to lack of opportunity or given little time when an opportunity arose at PL level, have stagnated and in some cases gone backwards. If there is not a route for these riders to continue their development then worrying about the occasional Australian rider in the NL seems pretty futile to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Three second half races at KL last night; 1. 1st Alex Davies,2nd Brenton Barnfield,3rd Cameron Heeps,4th Adam Kirby 2. same same same same 3. same same Cam and Adam did not come out. Alex looked sharp (was told after he is now with Plymouth ?), Brenton and Cam looked tidy and on the pace, Adam a little slower than the Aussies. I didn't know Brenton was over there as well; a good young prospect - and he's from Mildura! He was in our Aussie Solos comp but busted his arm in the first leg at Kurri Kurri: great to hear he's OK. Only a little older than Cam. Edited June 16, 2011 by BigFatDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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