Olsen Wants Eighteen In 2012

[PHILIPRISING]

Was there ever an investigation into the events at Gelsenkirchen? I recall that at the time it "wasn't the time for investigations and recriminations" (that might even have been a Rising phrase), but did the time ever come? How many heads rolled at BSI and the FIM as a result? Why were BSI happy to tear up the Gelsenkirchen agreement after the supposed success of the first staging? From what Mr Rising has said I get the impression that, apart from the track problems, the second staging was going to be another success. Or were ticket sales really terrible for 2008?

Mr Rising, of course, dances to the tune played by whoever calls the shots. BSI when it comes to the GPs and Sandhu domestically, regardless of the anarchy and chaos they cause. Alas, he probably can't even see the anarchy bowing to the will of Sandhu has caused speedway in this country.

 

 

LET'S face it, you don't like me, Speedway Star, BSI or the SGP so any conversation between us is pretty pointless.

[ladyluck]

LET'S face it, you don't like me, Speedway Star, BSI or the SGP so any conversation between us is pretty pointless.

 

Where have I stated that I don't like the SGP? I think you'll struggle, although I suspect that if I trawled through back issues of your magazine I'd find plenty of examples of your opposition to the GPs. Who'd have thought the FIM were based in Damascus?

As for yourself, well, you consistently fail to answer pertinent questions. Didn't the authorities at the Veltins Arena offer to re-stage the GP a week later at no extra cost to BSI Speedway? What were ticket sales like for the event? Was there ever an investigation into the affair and the Polish rumours?

I stand up for what I believe in.

Anyway, famous last words from the Speedway Star: "Incidentally, BSI Speedway are bemused by rumours circulating in Poland that the German Grand Prix would not go ahead. It will!"

Edited April 16, 2011 by ladyluck

[BigFatDave]

Sometimes I despair of the rampant negativity on the Forum, epitomised so well by this thread.

 

Any time anyone says anything positive or forward-thinking, people on here seem to line up to either pooh-pooh the idea or personalise the whole argument.

 

I always go by the theory that if you haven't anything positive to say then don't say anything. We're all aware of the difficulties promoters and riders are faced with; how about supporting them and the Sport for a change?

Edited April 16, 2011 by BigFatDave

[PHILIPRISING]

Where have I stated that I don't like the SGP? I think you'll struggle, although I suspect that if I trawled through back issues of your magazine I'd find plenty of examples of your opposition to the GPs. Who'd have thought the FIM were based in Damascus?

As for yourself, well, you consistently fail to answer pertinent questions. Didn't the authorities at the Veltins Arena offer to re-stage the GP a week later at no extra cost to BSI Speedway? What were ticket sales like for the event? Was there ever an investigation into the affair and the Polish rumours?

I stand up for what I believe in.

Anyway, famous last words from the Speedway Star: "Incidentally, BSI Speedway are bemused by rumours circulating in Poland that the German Grand Prix would not go ahead. It will!"

 

I WAS opposed to the Grand Prix concept in the early 90s but much has changed since then ... not least realisation and acceptance that the one-off World Final was as dead as a dodo. In recent years I believe that the GP has become a shining beacon for how good speedway can be and the entertainment and spectacle it can provide. I am proud of speedway, not ashamed, when I arrive at a SGP venue and witness the organisation, the professionalism and indeed the enthusiasm of everyone involved, not least the riders. Few people actually know of or appreciate the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes but what is most enjoyable is that BSI/IMG set the bar very high and want what is best rather than what is the cheapest.

 

I can attest to that with regard to the programmes that PInegen LImited (publishers of Speedway Star) produce on their behalf. Our remit isn't to cut corners and costs but to create a top class product and I like to think we achieve that.

 

As for your pertinent questions: whether or not the authorities at the Veltins-Arena offered to re-stage the German GP a week later is academic and ultimately irrelevant. After lengthy consultations with a variety of people considered to have good knowledge of the materials laid at the track and conditions inside the stadium it was agreed that the the moisture inherent in the surface would barely dissipate within a period of days let alone hours.

One analogy made at the time was if you put some washing on a line outside your house in a cold, damp atmosphere it wouldn't dry, certainly in comparison with a summer's day.

 

The temperature inside the stadium, especially with the football pitch withdrawn and a concrete floor, was very low and the materials simply wouldn't dry. If there was one thing worse that having to abort the event it would be trying to re-stage it seven days later and going through the whole debacle again. BSI/IMG simply couldn't take that risk.

 

It is true that advanced ticket sales weren't as good as the previous year but with no prospect of a sell-out the likelihood of people just turning up on the day is increased. However, as previously stated, turnstile revenue is only a small part of the equation.

 

There was a extensive investigation into what went wrong and I can only repeat that the lessons have been learned, particularly with regard to the manner in which the track materials are stored and transported.

 

As far as I know there wasn't an investigation into the Polish rumours because they weren't true so one wasn't necessary. Of course BSI were bemused aboujt the rumours. Why wouldn't they be as they were false.

 

I was present when the Bydgoszcz promoter Leszek Tillinger, who was there as he had been at many GPs other than his own, was summoned to an emergency meeting to enquire whether the event could go there. He had all the facilities in place, it was a proven GP venue, and most important there was a Polish TV outside broadcast unit available.

 

I hope this answers some of your pertinent questions.

[ladyluck]

As far as I know there wasn't an investigation into the Polish rumours because they weren't true so one wasn't necessary. Of course BSI were bemused aboujt the rumours. Why wouldn't they be as they were false.

 

They were false? The GP was staged in Germany? I must've missed it. By the way, I have the thick end of twenty years in the supply of contruction materials and I'd have got the material into shape easily enough. Where there's a will there's a way.

Ever get the feeling you've been had? It seems lots of people did.

Edited April 16, 2011 by ladyluck

[lucifer sam]

They were false? The GP was staged in Germany? I must've missed it. By the way, I have the thick end of twenty years in the supply of contruction materials and I'd have got the material into shape easily enough. Where there's a will there's a way.

Ever get the feeling you've been had? It seems lots of people did.

 

Ladyluck, did you go to Gelsenkirchen in 2008? You're carrying on as if you were personally wronged, but I'm sure you weren't out there.

 

I think Phil Rising has given the fullest and truest explanation of events that he can. Of course, the events leading to the postponement of this meeting were a complete and utter embarrassment, but surely trying to restage the meeting at Gelsenkirchen a week later would have only led to further disaster.

 

And a lot of negative publicity came out of the postponement. I don't think for a moment that it would have been done on purpose; it just doesn't make sense.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited April 16, 2011 by lucifer sam

[ladyluck]

Ah, it's enough to warm the cockles of your heart. A contributor to the Speedway Star coming to the rescue of the Managing Editor.

[PHILIPRISING]

They were false? The GP was staged in Germany? I must've missed it. By the way, I have the thick end of twenty years in the supply of contruction materials and I'd have got the material into shape easily enough. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

NOT always ... I had a will to convince you of the facts not supposition but no way.

 

Ever get the feeling you've been had? It seems lots of people did.

[lucifer sam]

Ah, it's enough to warm the cockles of your heart. A contributor to the Speedway Star coming to the rescue of the Managing Editor.

 

Good grief, I send something in a blue moon these days since the demise of Oxford and I've never had any personal contact with Phil Rising.

 

I actually thought the Star should have been more critical, at the time, of the postponment at Gelsenkirchen in 2008.

 

But your conspiracy theory is just plain daft.

 

All the best

Rob

[ladyluck]

Hey, don't blame me for your lack of will.

[manchesterpaul]

With respect this thread is now bordering on the insane. It's in a loop with several contributors clearly not going to accept what the others state no matter how well put. Surely everyone has stated their case and views multiple times now and those views are clear to all who read the thread.

 

In view of the time spent by Philip Rising having to repeatedly address the same allegations etc. i hope there is going to be a Speedway Star magazine published this week lol.

 

Obviously the phrase give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves comes to mind on occasions. I know who and what i believe in regard to the various matters. However, if this loop has to continue, can we not have a separate Gelsenkirchen conspiracy thread (or the old one renewed)? That will allow this one to return to the original main subject matter.

 

Peace maaaaan (says me pulling on my NATO helmet and flak jacket etc)

[PHILIPRISING]

With respect this thread is now bordering on the insane. It's in a loop with several contributors clearly not going to accept what the others state no matter how well put. Surely everyone has stated their case and views multiple times now and those views are clear to all who read the thread.

 

In view of the time spent by Philip Rising having to repeatedly address the same allegations etc. i hope there is going to be a Speedway Star magazine published this week lol.

 

Obviously the phrase give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves comes to mind on occasions. I know who and what i believe in regard to the various matters. However, if this loop has to continue, can we not have a separate Gelsenkirchen conspiracy thread (or the old one renewed)? That will allow this one to return to the original main subject matter.

 

Peace maaaaan (says me pulling on my NATO helmet and flak jacket etc)

 

THAT'S the trouble with being an oap... too much time on our hands. But you are right, 'nuff said.

 

Don't worry about the Star... I'm no longer involved with the day-to-day production.

[spook]

I couldn't really care less what sponsors IMG/BSI bring in. No more money goes to the riders, tracks or the sport as whole, and just ends up in the pockets of IMG(UK) to be wasted on the likes of golf courses and Olympic Stadiums.

 

Moreover, the SGP has been running for 15+ years now, with BSI involved for more than 10, and yet we're still to see any of these big name brands come in. No doubt we'll again be told that the current handful of sponsors pay big money to be involved, but they're hardly multinational brands.

 

Rome was not built in a day and what came first the chicken or the egg? Being such a fan of the old world championship system and the league system you should know very well that the handling of the media is a huge part of any success.......... it goes without saying that it also goes hand in hand with sponsorship..... it may not be what it was all about in the 60's but it is the way of the modern world now.............. its all very well taking pot shots ad nauseum but where would you start Humphrey?

 

If IMG had made gp profits of 1.5m for the last 10 years and not done anything with it I would also have an issue... but isnt it actually more the case that these 1 year profits are covering only some of the losses in previous years? As much as IMG's involvement goes against all your speedway beliefs the case is that its in their hands and they are doing the best job of dragging speedway kicking and screaming into the 21st century....... look around the sport... who else is doing it?

 

Would they be doing it if they werent allowed to keep profits? Since when were they a charity? I may be wrong but I believe the pay off here is that a company takes charge who have the resources to not only organise and stage such a series but also build on it ..... and they get the fruits of their hard work

 

re: no money goes to riders, tracks or the sport........ isnt that difficult to quantify? I can do exactly the same as you and state that the riders, tracks and sport as a whole benfit financially from the exposure that the GP's bring the sport....... I won't do that as I dont know what the FIM put back in from what they take from IMG.... and I really have no clue how many new fans are brought in because of the GP's..... or indeed how many fans are lost because of incompetence by the likes of the BSPA................... what I do know is that the best chance the sport has of bringing fans and money into the lower levels of the sport is the profile that the GP's and SWC potentially carries

 

The same could be said about many sports, but I think speedway's problem is that it really only has limited fanbases in a very small number of countries. I suppose if it's exposed enough on television it might attract a cult following around the world, but in practical terms how much does that really help the sport? Watching ski jumping on Eurosport doesn't suddenly make me want to go to Norway or Finland to stand in the cold to watch it.

 

I do think it's a reasonable approach to try and take the GPs to countries like Oz and NZ where there's already a core fanbase and where the local scene might benefit from the exposure, but they're still small markets and it seems a bit of stretch to think they'll encourage big sponsors to get involved.

 

I think you miss the point completely..... it currently has a cult fanbase with the exception of Poland.... the idea is to reach new and more mainstream audiences................ your ski jumping analogy is an interesting one as I remember watching ski sunday for all what must have been 3 or 4 years that Eddie the Eagle was doing it...... was there a ski jump locally where he and the Finnish experts would be competing? Or even locals competing? Sadly no.... but if there was I would have been there........ as I would have been with downhill skiing

 

try thinking more motogp or super/motocross ...... they have locals competing.... they have junior levels..... but the majority of the fan attention is at the pinnacle of the sport with copius amounts of fans making their way to superb venues.... while many more fans watch from home

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uedW_AoatYU

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/44306/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery-Photo/2009-MotoGP---Misano.aspx

 

does speedway have to copy other motorsports? No but I do think it is a good idea to follow a lot of what mainstream motorsport fans are used to as it is those fans that Speedway needs to grab.....

 

the sponsor thing really isnt difficult to understand... combined with steadily increasing media exposure the sponsors involved become bigger = more money & more fans ...... and vice versa ........... it is something that is going to take time to build up and is unlikely to happen overnight unless the US or Japan get involved

 

 

For me the opposite holds true. I find individual racing to be very one dimensional, and the tactical aspects of team speedway is the appeal for me.

 

I've always thought though, that as with cricket you can watch team speedway at different levels. The basics are easy to grasp for the casual viewer, and it's not really necessary to have an in-depth knowledge of the more complex rules unless you really interested.

 

IMO you also miss the point with this.... you are already a speedway fan..... it is folly to expect the average person to want to swallow what is an extremely unreasonable rulebook..... especially when it contradicts itself so often

 

simplicity is the key..... speedway shoots itself time and time again on this matter and all joe public wants is some close racing and a points tally at the end of it

 

Would have thought the riders would want to get some practice in before starting racing GPs.

 

quite possibly..... but if they are all in the same boat is it an issue? the same could be said for those who race in the league couldnt it?

 

 

 

I'm afraid I cant agree with your constant opposition to BSI/IMG and FIM partnership ...... but I am extremely interested how things are going to be taken forward.... and I don't necessarily agree with everything they do

 

for instance Cardiff is never sold out.... and yet anyone buying a ticket for £10 is also likely to bring their partner, kids and buy programs (not to mention buy food, drink and air horns)....obviously a lot of thought would have to go into just how that would work but it is possible.............. maybe they should also insist with venues like Prague what the price should be? ie half the price brings in 3x the amount of fans? ... do they want the stadium packed out or an image on the tv like the sport is going nowhere?

Edited April 16, 2011 by spook

[Humphrey Appleby]

Being such a fan of the old world championship system and the league system you should know very well that the handling of the media is a huge part of any success

 

I think you're mixing me up with Parsnips. Where I have I ever said that I want to see a return of the old World Championship, even if I have fonder memories of it than the SGP?

 

.......... it goes without saying that it also goes hand in hand with sponsorship.....

 

Of course it does, but we've been waiting 15 years for the big money to roll in as promised, and we're yet to see much sign of it. Moreover, the riders' pay has remained the same for years, regardless of how much IMG/BSI takes in television and sponsorship. Considering there wouldn't be a show without them, it doesn't seem very equitable to me.

 

Would they be doing it if they werent allowed to keep profits? Since when were they a charity? I may be wrong but I believe the pay off here is that a company takes charge who have the resources to not only organise and stage such a series but also build on it ..... and they get the fruits of their hard work

 

No-one expects IMG/BSI to be a charity, but with the vast majority of sports, the governing bodies and/or leagues contract directly for the television and sponsorship rights, and therefore they receive most or all the money. With the SGP, the rights were sold for a relative pittance by the FIM which is almost completely detached from the day-to-day running of speedway. And as far as anyone can tell, little if any of the money they make from the SGP actually goes back to speedway.

 

It's not that I object to BSI making money as a commercial company, but the system that allows them to do it in the first place.

 

re: no money goes to riders, tracks or the sport........ isnt that difficult to quantify?

 

It's very easy to quantity. The riders are paid at a fixed rate that's hardly changed in years, and at a level by which many claim to lose money. The tracks staging GPs might make some money from them, although it would seem many require local authority support to make things pay. Speedway as a whole gets absolutely no money at all, although the FIM would probably argue that some of the money paid by IMG/BSI for the rights helps support the other world championships.

 

Does speedway as a whole though, benefit from the exposure that the SGP brings? Difficult to say, but the declining crowds and income of British speedway would suggest not. Okay, it could be argued that the decline might have been even greater without the SGP, but I don't think there's any evidence either way. I also don't really buy the argument that the SGP got British speedway on television - I think it could have happened regardless.

 

Sadly no.... but if there was I would have been there........ as I would have been with downhill skiing

 

Yes, but that's my point. When all these millions or Chinese are exposed to the sport on televisions, where are they going to watch it? Speedway is only staged in just over 20 countries, and really only half of those countries have an extensive programme of meetings.

 

IMO you also miss the point with this.... you are already a speedway fan..... it is folly to expect the average person to want to swallow what is an extremely unreasonable rulebook..... especially when it contradicts itself so often

 

I wasn't always a speedway fan - I had no introduction to the sport by family or friends, and happened to chance upon it. I managed to work out the main rules of team racing long before I ever went to an individual meeting, so I don't believe it's that hard.

 

If simplicity was the key, no-one would ever watch cricket, but for some people the complex nuances of that game are what makes it interesting.

 

Its all very well taking pot shots ad nauseum but where would you start Humphrey?

 

I've never claimed to be a commercial or marketing genius, but there are people around who have got decent financial backing for minority sports, significantly in excess of what IMG and BSI have achieved. I also think the approach of getting sponsorship from fans or mates is ultimately a bit of dead end, although in fairness I do think speedway is not a particularly easy sport to market.

 

Nonetheless, what should have happened is the promoters' and league associations in the major speedway countries should have got to together and formed their own company to run the SGP. That way all the profits (whatever the amount) would have accrued to them, and the competitions that actually provide a living wage to the riders would directly benefit.

 

As things stand, the FIM has gone and signed away the rights until 2021, but the speedway countries should certainly be insisting on a share-out of the FIM cash, and the SGP riders should certainly now be demanding an improvement in prize money.

[BigFatDave]

Regarding Riders' pay, wouldn't you agree that the better you do in the GPs the more sponsorship you are likely to attract, viz Jason Crump & Red Bull?

Surely that's a bit of a pay-rise?

[June01]

Sometimes I despair of the rampant negativity on the Forum, epitomised so well by this thread.

I'm not cynical, just experienced.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Regarding Riders' pay, wouldn't you agree that the better you do in the GPs the more sponsorship you are likely to attract, viz Jason Crump & Red Bull? Surely that's a bit of a pay-rise?

 

No idea. Success obviously helps, but I suspect it's as much down to the rider, their nationality and which leagues they ride in.

 

Nevertheless, in what other form of employment would you work for less than the cost of getting to work and the provision of tools you need to do the job, and hope someone else comes along to make up your wages.

 

And as one who frequently champions the cause of the working man, it's little surprising that you should be in the camp of the capitalist running dogs...

Edited April 17, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[PHILIPRISING]

No idea. Success obviously helps, but I suspect it's as much down to the rider, their nationality and which leagues they ride in.

 

Nevertheless, in what other form of employment would you work for less than the cost of getting to work and the provision of tools you need to do the job, and hope someone else comes along to make up your wages.

 

And as one who frequently champions the cause of the working man, it's little surprising that you should be in the camp of the capitalist running dogs...

 

AT the very first meeting John Postlethwaite had with the then GP riders after BSI secured the commercial rights, he told them he didn't see it as his role to provide massive prize money but rather a stage and an audience (TV) that would enable them to secure lucrative sponsorship.

 

As you say that is easier for some riders than others and nationality comes into it. But there have been some massive deals for riders (Rickardsson particularly) that hinged entirely around the SGP series and wouldn't have materialised otherwise.

[ladyluck]

AT the very first meeting John Postlethwaite had with the then GP riders after BSI secured the commercial rights, he told them he didn't see it as his role to provide massive prize money but ...

 

A massive salary for himself.

[PHILIPRISING]

A massive salary for himself.

 

Or a massive loss