Rolling Averages

[IronScorpion]

I still stand by my view in that if you raced in the EL, you achieved that average to be converted by 1.4 for team building purposes as you raced under that race format, f you want to continue in the, now, Premiership.

 

If you only have a PL average, then that was achieved in the present race format, which is to be used in 2017.

 

For 2017 in the Premiership, once an average has been achieved using the 4H 4A system then a conversion factor of 1.25 is applied (Premiership/Championship = 50/40 = 1.25) for rolling averages.

[waiheke1]

 

That doesn't address the situation where after so few meetings some riders will be on false averages. Similar happened last year where some draft riders had an 8+ average after the first few meetings..

 

Granted, reserves have tougher rides in the new (old) format, but if some teams have cannonfodder at #7 is it quite possible that some reserves could put two or three points on their average in the first 8 meetings.

 

Another change that doesn't seem to have been thought through.

But my propsal does stop teams replacing riders who get an artificially high average from riding at reserve with a better rider. As they still need to be under 43 points. Basically that rule would discourage teams from "tactical syrengthening" mid season.

 

Tbh, back in the 80s you didn't have rolling averages and it worked fine.

I see your point and that lower limit will be in place it seems but I was looking at a different point.

 

If a side were to lose each of their first 4 away matches by say 20/30 rather than 10 then the redeclaration will have more flexilbility whatever the limit is.

 

With a 'brand new' average being acheived from those first 8 meetings rather than a rolling 20 the impact of any reduction would be greater.

Well yes. That could be done. I recall Cradley doing it in 84 in order to fit simon cross in. But then batch did it with rolling averages in effect in 2015 for Swindon so ward could be fitted.

Tbh I'm not sure how u avoid that though, without using rolling averages with a complicated conversion method.

[MattK]

But my propsal does stop teams replacing riders who get an artificially high average from riding at reserve with a better rider. As they still need to be under 43 points. Basically that rule would discourage teams from "tactical syrengthening" mid season.

But you are also penalising teams who might lose a heatleader to injury.

[waiheke1]

But you are also penalising teams who might lose a heatleader to injury.

Only successful teams (I. E. those who are averaging above 43). And those teams would still have the option of guests or r/r.

I'd rather that than the current rule, which generally allows stronger teams to strengthen.

[SteveLyric2]

Matt Ford confirms Premiership team average from May drops to 42

[Starman2006]

Matt Ford confirms Premiership team average from May drops to 42

That will be interesting...

[IronScorpion]

So what they are saying is that the difference between a Premiership side & a Championship side is replacing a 2 point rider for a 4 point rider between the two leagues.

 

There would not be a "cat in hell's" chance there would be a fair challenge between the 2 sides from differing leagues wether a challenge or end of season promotion/relegation play-off.

[MattK]

Does anyone know when new Premiership averages will be issued? Wolves and Somerset have both ridden 4H and 4A but their rider don't seem to have had updated averages yet.

Edited May 21, 2017 by MattK

[NeilWatson]

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=83087&p=2959912

 

With the current fixtures, the last Club to reach 4h4a will be Poole on 7th June.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

I would imagine rolling averages will be back in place and take into account 2017 meetings.

 

But how many meetings will be used and will the League Cup fixtures count in the Championship....

[IronScorpion]

Final averages now out for both Premiership & Championship Leagues.

 

For teambuilding purposes, will the 1.2 conversion be used between Leagues if only rode in one?

 

If a rider has ridden in both leagues, what average will be used now they have ridden to the same race format?

 

Any rider not in that list but has ridden in the old racing format still have the 1.4 conversion applied(even though it did not apply to Musielak & THJ in 2017, possibly Lahti also but unsure)?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Has there been any confirmation that rolling averages will return and if so the number of meetings to be used etc

[arnieg]

Given that the one rider over eight rule hasn't yet (if it ever will be) been confirmed and assessed averages still seem very much up in the air, the answer is who knows.

 

Anyway I doubt if anything will be confirmed until the second week of January (at the earliest).

Edited December 26, 2017 by arnieg

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Indeed arnieg everything still seems up in the air - I just couldnt recall seeing any indication either way about the return or otherwise

To not bring rolling averages back would be another backward step for me

[Gambo]

As far as I am aware, Rolling Averages will start in 2019, using 2018-2019 stats.

I am not aware of the reasoning behind this, so please don't shoot the messenger! 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Gambo

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Cheers Gambo

Can see some teams in the Championship using the League Cup to manipulate changes for the main event of a play off push then  

[Gambo]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, Gambo said:

As far as I am aware, Rolling Averages will start in 2019, using 2018-2019 stats.

I am not aware of the reasoning behind this, so please don't shoot the messenger! 

Apparently, there has now been a *U-Turn/*Rethink/*Clarification (*delete as appropriate) regarding the Green Sheets.

2017 averages WILL be included this year for a 20 match Rolling Average.

Riders who do not have a 2017 average will maintain their starting average until they have completed 4H & 4A.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

12 hours ago, Gambo said:

Apparently, there has now been a *U-Turn/*Rethink/*Clarification (*delete as appropriate) regarding the Green Sheets.

2017 averages WILL be included this year for a 20 match Rolling Average.

Riders who do not have a 2017 average will maintain their starting average until they have completed 4H & 4A.

The right decision in order to remove/reduce the impact of any attempt of manipulation

One that shouldve been made in November however better late than never!

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Looking at the new list it must be that shield matches have been included as well after all

Eg Danyon Hume had 7 2017 meetings (hence still assessed at 2) but on new list he has 10 meetings included which can only be the 3 shield meetings prior to the cut off date

[Gambo]

49 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Looking at the new list it must be that shield matches have been included as well after all

Eg Danyon Hume had 7 2017 meetings (hence still assessed at 2) but on new list he has 10 meetings included which can only be the 3 shield meetings prior to the cut off date

You are correct. Championship Shield matches are included in the Rolling Average.