Daniel Smith Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I notice on the BSPA site that Pawlicki will be given an average on the 1st of May but thats wrong. Shamek started the season on an assesed average, so fit into the criteria above. If the rules said that meetings last eyar counted too, then he'd have an average but the rules clearly state anyone on an assessed average only gets an average when he completes 4 home and 4 away and Shamek has NOT completed 4 home and 4 away. it isn't wrong at all according to the last sentence of the rule. It clearly says if a rider hasn't done 4 home & away meeting then a revised average is given from the 1st May Edited May 1, 2011 by screamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 it isn't wrong at all according to the last sentence of the rule. It clearly says if a rider hasn't done 4 home & away meeting then a revised average is given from the 1st May So Dennis Andersson should have a new average then. And all other assesed riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 are used. In speedways case if a rider has a potential 40 meetings a year then the last ten meetings used. I know you have the problem of home away fixtures and riders getting injured but looking at the two years they are using; it is way too long and will not work. A rolling average should change with every meeting rode, not wait until certain dates because then it no longer is a true rolling average. Quite right. Team positions should be selected based on current form. Leaving a high scoring reserve at 6 or 7 is only fair if all teams benefit from this at the same time. Leaving a seriously struggling 1 to 5 in the main body of the team for too long will do no good for his confidence and may eventually result in such a rider being permanently damaged. The principle of rolling averages is OK but it would be fairer all round if it was based on a shorter and more current period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 If a rider has an official rolling average, does their average get updated in real time i.e. After each meeting. Or will the new averages be given on a monthly basis? Thanks. New averages are issued the same as before, i.e. the 1st of the month, with the 23rd of the previous month being the cut-off date. ATB Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 it isn't wrong at all according to the last sentence of the rule. It clearly says if a rider hasn't done 4 home & away meeting then a revised average is given from the 1st May Can you post a link to the Rule, it would be interesting to see them. ATB Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBee Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 New averages are issued the same as before, i.e. the 1st of the month, with the 23rd of the previous month being the cut-off date. ATB Dave Thanks for getting back to me. In my opinion the riders should get a new average after every meeting apart from assessed riders. I guess the only problem with that is the advanced team declaration but I can't see that being a problem we can't overcome. Maybe this is something which can be addressed over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Thanks for getting back to me. In my opinion the riders should get a new average after every meeting apart from assessed riders. I guess the only problem with that is the advanced team declaration but I can't see that being a problem we can't overcome. Maybe this is something which can be addressed over time. Couldn't agree more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Can you post a link to the Rule, it would be interesting to see them. ATB Dave It would. I have downloaded the SR for 2011 to find that the relevant chapter 17 to be missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Will Richard become the first victim of the dreaded rolling averages? His official Rolling Average in the Elite League is 4.95, yet his real (unofficial) average this season based on the meetings he has ridden for Coventry is just 3.90. Presumably, if he takes a break then next season he will still be on 4.95, which clearly does not recognise his loss of form - or indeed, as some might argue, a return to a more realistic level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Will Richard become the first victim of the dreaded rolling averages? His official Rolling Average in the Elite League is 4.95, yet his real (unofficial) average this season based on the meetings he has ridden for Coventry is just 3.90. Presumably, if he takes a break then next season he will still be on 4.95, which clearly does not recognise his loss of form - or indeed, as some might argue, a return to a more realistic level? I bang my drum for the last time on this subject. The time sclae used to calc these "rolling averages" is way too long, it makes no sense at all and is totally unfair because riders who lose form are going to be left high and dry on averages that promoters will not take a chance on. Boy do speedway make it hard for themselves!! Between 8-12 meetings should be used. How hard is this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have another question: Take Grzegorz Zengota. He rode 29 meetings last season and achieved an average of 5.65. If he joins Swindon mid-season in 2011 will he gain a rolling average based on his meetings last year minus what he has completed this year - and if so will they be deducted off the start of his 2010 scores? Likewise, at the end of 2011, will his starting average for 2012 be his rolling average of 2010 + 2011 or will it just take into account his 2011 scores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Whatever his last 28 meetings will be his average If however the fixtures are 2 home and 2 away next season, thats 36 matches .... so 28 may be changed at the EGM ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 I love the rolling averages . Nick Morris started the season on something like 4.67 , he's banged in double-figure scores home and away all season and he's now only at 5.02 and still at reserve . All hail the rolling averages . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 I love the rolling averages . Nick Morris started the season on something like 4.67 , he's banged in double-figure scores home and away all season and he's now only at 5.02 and still at reserve . All hail the rolling averages . Similar at Sheffield with Simon Lambert, Nick Morris true average this season is around the 7 point mark, and Lambert true average is around 6.5 point. If you look at the teams that have been in or around at the top this season, they are the teams that have a rider like these two at reserve. Somerset it was North, and Workington Ingalls. I am convince that one of the main reasons for Glasgow have been head and shoulders above everyone else is not only they have Nick Morris they have Rajakowski as well has been down at reserve for Glasgow until recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 With 28 matches counting towards the averages for next season, at Wolves all but Ty Proctor will start next season still using results from 2010 due to missed matches. Freddie will have 25 pts from 12 rides, Ludvig at least 21pts from 15 rides, PK has 20pts from 14 rides while Tai however has 55 pts from 24 rides as he finished the 2010 season with four big scores, including a maximum in the final match, so it is unlikely his average will drop that much now from his 7.72. The thing is that at the start of the 2012 season, should Tai start off poorly with say 16 points from his first five meetings, his GSA will then suddenly drop to around 7.10 where as the same scores for PK would result in his GSA staying around his final average which looks to be around 8+ points a match. So if a team has a few riders like Tai in their starting line up next season with a 3.00 reserve, within a few matches they would be able to release that 3.00 rider for a rider carrying a 4-5 point average. Those with riders lke PK in their team wouldn't be able to strengthen much as poor scores will be replacing poor scores any way and their average wont really change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceyccfc1966 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 It really has not been thought through .In principle it works ,but when applied correctly . Like some have said 38 matches is way too long and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 It really has not been thought through .In principle it works ,but when applied correctly . Like some have said 38 matches is way too long and unnecessary. So, How many matches do you think the PL Rolling Average should be over? At the end of the season the PL riders' averages would be calculated from their 38 matches anyway, whether you used R/A's or the pre-2011 method. Next season, (if R/A's are retained) a greater number of riders will have their averages calculated over a common number of matches (EL 28 and PL 38) even if they didn't compete in all matches this year, due to injuries etc. ATB Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_boon Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 So, How many matches do you think the PL Rolling Average should be over? I think 12 is a fair enough indicator of form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Why not over 1 match? Worst 2 drop to reserve, if one of them then gets a massive score at reserve they move back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think 12 is a fair enough indicator of form. Whilst being an indicator of form it would then mean even more 'issues' of team averages. We are currently on Issue 20 in the Elite League and there would be even more fluctuations in averages, which I believe is why Rolling Averages were brought in. Just imagine if a team were certain of their place in the Play-Offs! How much average manipulation would be going on in their final few matches..........? ATB Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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