high edge Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Only speedway think they can get away with age discrimination.How can they get away with only allowing one over thirty rider per team.If i tried the same by not employing more than one driving instructor over thirty i would be in deep trouble.I think it is stupid to bring in such a rule.The National League is still being treated as a amateur set up yet being expected to runn and pay profesinal fees to the B s p a.We all need to turn out teams to compete and stand a chance to winn something.We have to attract people to come and watch meetings but if you are prevented from putting out the best team you can by what must be a illegal rule people will not come and support you.i I thought ageisum was banned in this country i am becoming pissed off with speedway and the people who are trying to kill it.Next they will be saying i am to old to be a team manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squall Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 i am to old to be a team manager You are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I understand the premise behind the NL and it should be for developing young riders but they IMO benifit from riding with older riders in their team.I have always felt that a rider should be allowed to race regardless of his AGE and lose his team place to a better rider not be forced out by the system. Also in recent years the sport has lost a lot of it's Vets ,I really think that there are very few of these riders remaining in the sport today and their inclusion can only be good IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Un Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Having only one rider per team over thirty is one of the better ideas that I have heard inrecent times. The problem was the CL was getting to be an OAP tea party with simply too many old riders taking team places that should have been given to younger up and coming riders. Of course the biggest problem was that many of the older riders were simply in CL teams because they could not hack it in the PL. If you look at the Hackney team it is balanced mix of experience and young talent, though even then the top two are PL failures. It is ridiculous when you get PL heatleaders racing in the NL as it causes the sort of half lap gap between the top and bottom riders in races in the EL and PL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Having only one rider per team over thirty is one of the better ideas that I have heard inrecent times. The problem was the CL was getting to be an OAP tea party with simply too many old riders taking team places that should have been given to younger up and coming riders. Of course the biggest problem was that many of the older riders were simply in CL teams because they could not hack it in the PL. If you look at the Hackney team it is balanced mix of experience and young talent, though even then the top two are PL failures. It is ridiculous when you get PL heatleaders racing in the NL as it causes the sort of half lap gap between the top and bottom riders in races in the EL and PL. name 1 younger rider in the 17 years of the cl/nl that hasnt got a place cause an older rider has had the place , if they are good enough they will be in , last year the isle of wight had a league match at buxton and we couldnt get a rider to ride at no7, there was just no rider availible or that wanted to do it , we got someone from the amature scene in the end and without being disrespectfull to the lad he was half a lap behind ,that is not good for the paying public to watch , in the return match buxton had the same problems getting a team and had to use another teams no7 cause again no one was availible or wanted to do it , i ride in the nl for fun cause i enjoy it ,its not about the money or that i cant hack it in the prem (which i cant but thats not the point ), i think after a few weeks when injuries start to happen the league will again fall short of riders ,but this year no one over 30 will be able to fill the gaps so even more teams will have to put in riders not up to the standered , again the paying public suffers , i understand this sounds a bit like sour grapes on my part but ive been around speedway a long time and see what goes on in speedway and imo this rule is just depriving the NL fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippy22 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 name 1 younger rider in the 17 years of the cl/nl that hasnt got a place cause an older rider has had the place , if they are good enough they will be in , last year the isle of wight had a league match at buxton and we couldnt get a rider to ride at no7, there was just no rider availible or that wanted to do it , we got someone from the amature scene in the end and without being disrespectfull to the lad he was half a lap behind ,that is not good for the paying public to watch , in the return match buxton had the same problems getting a team and had to use another teams no7 cause again no one was availible or wanted to do it , i ride in the nl for fun cause i enjoy it ,its not about the money or that i cant hack it in the prem (which i cant but thats not the point ), i think after a few weeks when injuries start to happen the league will again fall short of riders ,but this year no one over 30 will be able to fill the gaps so even more teams will have to put in riders not up to the standered , again the paying public suffers , i understand this sounds a bit like sour grapes on my part but ive been around speedway a long time and see what goes on in speedway and imo this rule is just depriving the NL fans Well said, I agree 100% with your comments. Some of the best racing in the NL, involves the older, experienced riders. Last year when IOW visited Rye House, you were the only rider who managed to overtake anyone in 15 heats of racing. Buzz Burrows also always livens up the racing. The youngsters can also learn a lot from the experienced riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Having only one rider per team over thirty is one of the better ideas that I have heard inrecent times. The problem was the CL was getting to be an OAP tea party with simply too many old riders taking team places that should have been given to younger up and coming riders. Of course the biggest problem was that many of the older riders were simply in CL teams because they could not hack it in the PL. If you look at the Hackney team it is balanced mix of experience and young talent, though even then the top two are PL failures. It is ridiculous when you get PL heatleaders racing in the NL as it causes the sort of half lap gap between the top and bottom riders in races in the EL and PL. David Mason (I believe you are referring to him) is 4th in the starting Hawks averages, will probably be reserve come the first set of greensheets too. Not to disrespect him, I just rate the riders in the Hawks side that much. I've said previously i'm not sure why we have signed him, however if he is helping the younger lads develop then his experience in the pits is fantastic. There is a place for older riders in the league of course, as long as it is to help the youngsters progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high edge Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 There are just know youngsters who could be put in to do a job .we have to think of the fans who pay money to watch and try to put out the best team we can but due to rules out of our control we are prevented from doing so.We would be within the points limit If we inclued Dean but due to what i think must be a illegal rule we must go with a weakend team.ageisum at its worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhidassa Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Having only one rider per team over thirty is one of the better ideas that I have heard inrecent times. The problem was the CL was getting to be an OAP tea party with simply too many old riders taking team places that should have been given to younger up and coming riders. Of course the biggest problem was that many of the older riders were simply in CL teams because they could not hack it in the PL. If you look at the Hackney team it is balanced mix of experience and young talent, though even then the top two are PL failures. It is ridiculous when you get PL heatleaders racing in the NL as it causes the sort of half lap gap between the top and bottom riders in races in the EL and PL. Failures at PL and could not hack it in PL... or not given the chance, either at all or for long enough, and/or dropped in favour of foreign riders on lower averages that often do the same job the dropped Brit would do. There's a mentality over here 'they're foreign.. they'll be a better racer'. Wonder if that's the same in other countries? Edited March 17, 2011 by rhidassa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient mariner Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 name 1 younger rider in the 17 years of the cl/nl that hasnt got a place cause an older rider has had the place , if they are good enough they will be in , last year the isle of wight had a league match at buxton and we couldnt get a rider to ride at no7, there was just no rider availible or that wanted to do it , we got someone from the amature scene in the end and without being disrespectfull to the lad he was half a lap behind ,that is not good for the paying public to watch , in the return match buxton had the same problems getting a team and had to use another teams no7 cause again no one was availible or wanted to do it , i ride in the nl for fun cause i enjoy it ,its not about the money or that i cant hack it in the prem (which i cant but thats not the point ), i think after a few weeks when injuries start to happen the league will again fall short of riders ,but this year no one over 30 will be able to fill the gaps so even more teams will have to put in riders not up to the standered , again the paying public suffers , i understand this sounds a bit like sour grapes on my part but ive been around speedway a long time and see what goes on in speedway and imo this rule is just depriving the NL fans Hi Dean, Have really enjoyed watching you ride since my return to the sport in 2006. Thoroughly agree with your post. Older riders have consistently contributed vastly more than they ever took away from the AL/CL/NL. My view is that the introduction of this rule is an easy and cheap alternative to the BSPA actually addressing the real issue by investing in the future of the sport. For what it's worth, I think the BSPA should do everything within their power to (and this list is just a first stab in no particular order, please add your own ideas): Start the youngsters off on small bikes at an early age Create and promote positive environment where young riders and their family/supporters/sponsors are encouraged to partake in the sport Make the sport more accessible by ensuring that costs are maintained at a realistic level Provide an environment where the kids learn to compete and progress, particulary if they show talent None of which seems to happen at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Dean, Have really enjoyed watching you ride since my return to the sport in 2006. Thoroughly agree with your post. Older riders have consistently contributed vastly more than they ever took away from the AL/CL/NL. My view is that the introduction of this rule is an easy and cheap alternative to the BSPA actually addressing the real issue by investing in the future of the sport. For what it's worth, I think the BSPA should do everything within their power to (and this list is just a first stab in no particular order, please add your own ideas): Start the youngsters off on small bikes at an early age Create and promote positive environment where young riders and their family/supporters/sponsors are encouraged to partake in the sport Make the sport more accessible by ensuring that costs are maintained at a realistic level Provide an environment where the kids learn to compete and progress, particulary if they show talent None of which seems to happen at present. hey mate ,thank you i think some people think older riders are creaming money from riding in the nl ,i can say speedway at all levels has cost me thousands of pounds over 18 years , last year i brought 3 GMs and a jrm , i blew 2 of them , i had a huge crash at newport which totaly wrecked a bike and what earned last year didnt even cover that cost of them , and i can tell you that 60% of youngsters were on more money than me and the others were on the same money , did you notice how i seemed to be in a lot of challenge/individual meetings the last few years ?, thats cause when the phone rang to ask if i wanted to do them my first responce wasnt "how much money am i getting" ,i just wanted to ride , i can understand if a team wants to track a team of up and coming youngsters, thats up to them its their choice but if a team wants to track an older team or a team with a mix of older riders then surely thats their choice aswell , a rider shouldnt be descriminated against because of his age , i know len silver agrees with that and so do some other promoters but unfortunatly some dont and they seem to have the most say, restricting riders cause of age will not make a new british world champion ,there are a couple of riders who could do something big in the sport currently riding NL and they got there with older riders in the league , but its when they go into prem/elite the bubble bursts, maybe the bspa should be looking at that and not blaming the likes of me for halting their progress , unfortunatly for me i care about speedway especially at NL level and decisions like this 30+ rule are doing nothing for the sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Dean you were my hero when you rode for Berwick in the late 90s. God bless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary o'hare Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 hey mate ,thank you i think some people think older riders are creaming money from riding in the nl ,i can say speedway at all levels has cost me thousands of pounds over 18 years , last year i brought 3 GMs and a jrm , i blew 2 of them , i had a huge crash at newport which totaly wrecked a bike and what earned last year didnt even cover that cost of them , and i can tell you that 60% of youngsters were on more money than me and the others were on the same money , did you notice how i seemed to be in a lot of challenge/individual meetings the last few years ?, thats cause when the phone rang to ask if i wanted to do them my first responce wasnt "how much money am i getting" ,i just wanted to ride , i can understand if a team wants to track a team of up and coming youngsters, thats up to them its their choice but if a team wants to track an older team or a team with a mix of older riders then surely thats their choice aswell , a rider shouldnt be descriminated against because of his age , i know len silver agrees with that and so do some other promoters but unfortunatly some dont and they seem to have the most say, restricting riders cause of age will not make a new british world champion ,there are a couple of riders who could do something big in the sport currently riding NL and they got there with older riders in the league , but its when they go into prem/elite the bubble bursts, maybe the bspa should be looking at that and not blaming the likes of me for halting their progress , unfortunatly for me i care about speedway especially at NL level and decisions like this 30+ rule are doing nothing for the sport well said dean, i think that this rule is probably illegal .. im not interested in racing in the nl.. but age shouldnt be an issue. you stick in there mate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Dean you were my hero when you rode for Berwick in the late 90s. God bless. you poor soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 There is a picture of you somewhere i'm positive, at the tapes with Jesper Olsen. Good times in your career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 There is a picture of you somewhere i'm positive, at the tapes with Jesper Olsen. Good times in your career? yea loved it at berwick and still love to go there ,dont think berwick fans could understand my accent though but fantastic people ,will be there this saturday spannerman for hynek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 well said dean, i think that this rule is probably illegal .. im not interested in racing in the nl.. but age shouldnt be an issue. you stick in there mate.. cheers mate, i do find it strange how the rule was left out of the NL agm press release Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Older riders are not damageng s/way the powers that be who are not investing in the sport are to blame ,like any business you have to look to the future and they just pretend to.In the early 70's when I started watching what was the old NL you had a wide cross section of riders coming up Chris Morton,John Jackson,Joe Owen and Kenny Carter and then you had Mike Broadbanks,Pete Jarman,and even Jimmy Sqibb to give a great balance the league IMO.None of the older riders hindered the progress of the younger ones ,quite the contary many learnt and benifited from them being there in the first place. Edited March 18, 2011 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Whilst i can see the thinking behind the alleged 30+ rule, it does seem strange NO announcement was made in the Post AGM Press release, again it was a case of not what was announced but what was not announced, even esteemed Promoters who contribute on this Forum, forgot to mention this ruling. Deanno yes its no good making rules for The NL, and then not do anything further up in the PL and EL, Team opportunities must be freed up in the PL, and then in the EL, there HAS to be rulings for a minimum of British born riders in Teams and this must be increased over time until a reasonable level is reached, Promoters must start to balance out "Self interest alongside Speedways overall long term Interest" for the EL i guess it is a case of retaining SKY money whatever the cost, for the PL it must be a case of either lesser costs though this is debatable with air fares etc, or the prospect of finding a rider on a lower assesed average than his likely attainable average. To overcome the latter, every British born rider included in a PL Team must have at least a 0.5 point reduction off his average for Team building, a similar ruling must be included for the EL over coming years, whilst this in itself will not stop the decline of opportunuties for British born riders, it needs to be included in a package of measures that are brought in to give Team spots for home grown riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high edge Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Although i welcome the new teams that are second teams,i dont welcome the way they want to rule how the league is runn regarding,reduced points limmit and the age restiction rule .I personaly thought that last year the National League standard was right but this year its been watered down to suit the new teams and i think its a bad move ,look what watering down the Elite League has done.Come on dont be scared Buxton may not winn everything this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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