Kevin Meynell Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 In recent years, it's become apparent that domestic meetings have become increasingly less value for money. Up until the early-1980s, meetings were comprised of a 13-heat match and a 7-heat second-half. For various reasons, the second half was replaced by a junior match, but after these were abolished, the number of heats has been progressive reduced. For example... 1987 - 20 heats (13-heat main match + 7-heat junior match) 1988 - 20 heats (15-heat main match + 5-heat junior match) 1989 - 21 heats (15-heat main match + 6-heat junior match) 1993 - 18 heats (18-heat match) 1994 - 16 heats (16-heat match) 1997 - 15 heats (15-heat match) In other words, the second-half has never really been satisfactorily replaced, even if the main match has been slightly extended. Some tracks do organise a second-half of sorts with junior riders, but this varies from place-to-place. I therefore wonder what people think would be the best meeting format these days: 1) Return to 13-heat match + 7-heat second half 2) Keep the current 15-heat match with 5-6 heats of junior racing 3) Increase the match to 16 heats 4) Increase the match to 18 heats (would probably require 8-rider teams) 5) Keep the status quo? 6) Something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Tim Stone manages 30 heats, PL+CL for a pound extra so cost wise it possible to have 15 main heats and 15 junior heats, why not make so that team HAVE to have say 10-15 junior heats in a junior league and let the stand alone team run in the CL. That way Sheffield, Newport, Oxford and Peterborough wouldn't need a CL team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Item 2) looks a winner Kevin, especially if as mentioned elswhere, the junior races are interleaved with the league match to give the youngsters experience of changing track conditions. I love watching the kids have a go. Hopefully the juniors would be of sufficient quality to make this a competition of sorts. If this proved successful and was adopted at all tracks we could consider taking it one step further............, if the juniors 'belonged' to the league clubs they may, with a minor change to the rules, be able to compete for a place in, say heat 15 of a 16 heat league match. Sorry if this kills your thread Kevin. Seems as if I only have to read one to kill it this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jill Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 we dont have a cl team but we have juniors. they dont go out after every meeting but when they do run they usually only run for 5 races at the end of the PL but we run at night 7pm- 9pm so we couldnt have any more races unless it was on a bank holiday coz there usually on in the afternoon. we did have a one off meeting for the juniors a 15 heat one all on its own and it didnt bring many people in which was a shame coz it was a good meeting eventho it was rained off at heart 13 ( it think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 we run at night 7pm- 9pm so we couldnt have any more races unless it was on a bank holiday coz there usually on in the afternoon. Jill, In the days when meetings consisted of 20 heats or more, they used to take the same time as 15 do now. These days, things have to be unnecessarily strung-out to disguise the fact that a meeting would otherwise be over in one-and-a-quarter hours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Item 2) looks a winner Kevin, especially if as mentioned elswhere, the junior races are interleaved with the league match to give the youngsters experience of changing track conditions. Mylor, I think 2) offers a good solution, but unfortunately the old junior leagues were never a great success. Riders riding against others of the same ability does not seem to bring talent through, and the BCL has shown that you seem to need the involvement of old hands to provide a decent level of competition. Furthermore, the BCL gives riders experience of riding in a proper match in changing conditions, and with plenty of rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jill Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 we run at night 7pm- 9pm so we couldnt have any more races unless it was on a bank holiday coz there usually on in the afternoon. Jill, In the days when meetings consisted of 20 heats or more, they used to take the same time as 15 do now. These days, things have to be unnecessarily strung-out to disguise the fact that a meeting would otherwise be over in one-and-a-quarter hours! ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 i used to like the old 2nd halves... we would be out in the first race of the 2nd half and if we came 1st or 2nd would get a crack at the number 7 in the main match...it gave us something to aim for but normally we only got 2 maybe 3 rides per night which is not what you need at that stage. i wish i was riding now in the Conference as you are riding different tracks and conditions and different level of rider as mentioned, so obviously you're going to improve quicker. the trouble with the 2nd halves with riders from the main match is that the riders didn't really like them...they were a waste as far as some riders were concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 the trouble with the 2nd halves with riders from the main match is that the riders didn't really like them...they were a waste as far as some riders were concerned. Steve, I've some conversations with a former promoter who told me that second-halves were popular with most riders when they were paid the same for second-half races as those in the main match. However, riders started losing interest around the time they started getting less for the second-half. Apparently, there was some plan to revive interest in second-half racing by linking up the various 'Rider of the Night' events into some sort of national competition, but this never happened for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I used to quite enjoy second halves, but to be honest thay carried little weight for supporters. The main advantage was you could leave at some time during the second half and avoid queuing to get out of the car park. Nowadays there aren't normally enough spectators to have to worry about that much anyway. I still look at the score after 13 heats to get an idea of how the match has gone, although 15 heats is quite a good number as it gives everyone 4 rides plus the extra heat at the end. The formula now is better than when they just stuck an extra reserve race in heat 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markone Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I used to enjoy the old sliver helmet race off's i know that this has changed the thread a bit? But i used to really enjoy the one on one, it was a bit different, i was only ickle mind. Used to love to watch Tom Owen Beat the oppositions Number One..... When did it stop or have i just not noticed it, could it be brought back? Dont they have a bronze helmet in the Conf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Speedway isn't good value for money these days, therefore I would like to see either the 18-heat format and 5 additional races or the current 15-heat formula and 8 2nd half races. A lot of people would see it as backward step if we went back to 18 heats, but I would be happy if the extra 3 heats were added to the 2nd half. The question is, would clubs be able to fit 23 races in under 2 hours? I went to a meeting last season at Belle Vue and it took 2 hours 45 minutes to complete 15 heats. This is totally unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markone Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 If i remember there was a bad injury, cant remeber who, want it ipswich? And had to wait for the ambulance? Did nt someone go over the fence, then lee lanham got injured too, that was a one off not due to meeting format although i do agree it was tedious, i missed news at ten, the horror! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 If i remember there was a bad injury, cant remeber who, want it ipswich? And had to wait for the ambulance? Did nt someone go over the fence, then lee lanham got injured too, that was a one off not due to meeting format although i do agree it was tedious, i missed news at ten, the horror! Yeah, that was the one. Paul Hurry went through the fence. Most of the meetings at Belle Vue I went to last season took around 1 hour 45 minutes to complete, which didn't leave much time for the juniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markone Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 They seem to have probs if there is an injury, the ambulance situation could do with being sorted, hospital is only down the road! The fence always takes a time to fix too, maybe the proposed air fence will help with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 They seem to have probs if there is an injury, the ambulance situation could do with being sorted, hospital is only down the road! The fence always takes a time to fix too, maybe the proposed air fence will help with that! It would help reduce the number of crashes if the stock cars stayed away from Kirky Lane. Belle Vue seem to suffer more than most from a stock car meeting. If Belle Vue had an air fence all the way round the track, you would only be able to see from behind the glass and possibly the 2nd bend grass banking, so it would have to be on the bends only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 The question is, would clubs be able to fit 23 races in under 2 hours? It should be possible to run 12 heats per hour (1 every five minutes), so yes 23 heats in two hours is feasible timewise, if perhaps not affordable. Obviously you have to accept delays if there are serious accidents, but under normal circumstances there's no excuse for 15 heats to take longer than about 1.5 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 a lot of the problem is that so much time seems to be spent before each race with the riders digging up their gate positions... if you were sad enough to sit there at a meeting and time them at how long they are in the start gate vicinity, it would probably be longer than each race takes! the races last for 1 minute... how can they struggle to fit in 15 minutes of racing into a 2 hour slot??? maybe the referees need to get a push on or cut out the digging. i don't know if he still refs but i always thought Frank Ebdon was the best ref at keeping things moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted December 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 how can they struggle to fit in 15 minutes of racing into a 2 hour slot??? I think it can only be a deliberate decision to slow-up the racing, otherwise it would be embarrasing if the 15 regulation heats were over in little more than an hour. When I started going to speedway in the early-1980s, I'm pretty sure the policy was to sound the two-minute warning as soon as the previous race had finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Kevin it used to be that the two minute warning was for a specific rider, i.e. the rider in red is on two minutes, if during that time another rider went back to the pits he would be put on two minutes and so on. Two minutes could last five or six minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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